10th Walker

Subject: 10th Walker
Author: Niko
Posted on: 2014-11-05 00:12:00 UTC

The Tenth Walker thing was actually one that I've been curious about! I'll have to look in the archives to find that discussion and read it when I get a chance.

We've all seen horrible, 10th Walker Suefics. On the other hand, I've seen 10th Walker fics that I thought were really good, with well-written OC's (who were believable as not only people but a part of Tolkien's world, who weren't super powerful, who definitely understood the temptation of the One Ring) and canon characters that weren't OOC.

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OCxCanon by bluefa02 on 2014-11-04 01:11:00 UTC Reply

Opinions?

For me, I don't mind them as long as they're done well and you don't shove them into people's faces.

It can be done well. by Iximaz on 2014-11-04 16:06:00 UTC Reply

Unfortunately, I made a name for myself on the Pit with a HP Marauders Era fifth Marauder who ends up with Remus. I haven't written it in years, but I keep it up to remind myself that I used to be a Suethor and have come a long way since then.

That and I'm planning on doing a mission in my own fic sometime.

Still, I've seen very well written OC/Canon before. Not often, but I have seen it.
Fun Fact. by KittyEden on 2014-11-04 12:20:00 UTC Reply

Did you know that, at any time I've checked, just about half of the fics on the Doctor Who ff.net page are "OC meets the Doctor"? And two thirds of them are OC/Doctor romance?
Seriously. I make a specific point of checking every time I'm on. In fact, I wouldn't mind so much if they were Classic Doctors, or even 9 or 12. They all feature 10 and 11.

Wow. by bluefa02 on 2014-11-04 14:49:00 UTC Reply

...I'm a little scared now. I've seen a couple crossover fics for DW, but not Suefics. Guess no fandom is safe around the dark side of fanfiction.net.
Thank goodness 12 scared away the fanbrats. by Iximaz on 2014-11-04 14:26:00 UTC Reply

Though I was really upset when one of my best friends told me she wasn't going to watch Capaldi as the Doctor because he wasn't 10 or 11. :(

Still, this means that if I ever want to have a serious discussion about the show as it is now, I don't have to worry as much about someone jumping in to say 'OMG PETER CAPALDI IS SOOOOO HAWT!11' and nothing else. *eyeroll* They don't realize what they're missing.

Oh, how many of those OCs turn out to be Time Ladies in hiding or who somehow survived the Time War as a baby and was adopted and raised by modern Earth parents? Because it seems like roughly half of them are like that.

Say... by Desdendelle on 2014-11-04 14:31:00 UTC Reply

How's the writing for Capaldi? Moffat's writing for Smith was horribad and basically scared me away from DW. Should I take a chance and start watching again?

I'm in the same boat as you, dude. by Rats on 2014-11-04 19:46:00 UTC Reply

I just. Very strongly dislike Moffat. I think Capaldi is an excellent choice for the Doctor, but I just can't get into the show any more at all. Sigh.
In my opinion, Moffat's writing with Smith in season 6 was pretty decent! But since then it's been spiraling downhill out of control. So I would say no, it's not much better.
Each to their own, though; I would be lying if I said that some interesting ideas weren't coming up, so I'd say definitely give it a shot. It just wasn't for me.
Well, I liked 11's era, so you may want to ignore this... by Huinesoron on 2014-11-04 15:11:00 UTC Reply

... but in general, Series 8 has been good.

(I guess the below might be considered spoilers? I guess. Read at your own peril. The only real spoilers are regarding Episode 7, Kill the Moon, which frankly, you shouldn't watch anyway)

The exceptions, unfortunately, were very exceptions. Regrettably, episodes 2 (Into the Dalek) and 3 (Robot of Sherwood) were a bit pants; 2 violated large amounts of logic, and 3 was... uh... well, it depicted the Doctor as nearly totally useless in order to let Clara do everything. So there's that. Episode 7 (Kill the Moon) is apparently quite a good story for Clara - provided you can ignore the complete lack of science taking place in what should be a highly scientific story. Gravity on the surface of a spherical object disappears because the contents of the object move, and single-celled organisms have segmented legs, is what I'm saying. Also, the uplifting ending is literally only uplifting for Clara, despite the Doctor ignoring what actually happened and saying it's about humanity as a whole. (I didn't like that episode)

But the rest of the series, I really enjoyed. Episode 4 (Listen) is very much in the spirit of Blink, and is frankly brilliant. I also particularly enjoyed 5 (Time Heist) and 8 (Mummy on the Orient Express).

The one thing we've had a hard time pinning down is who, exactly, Twelve is supposed to be - what sort of Doctor. He's actually quite ruthless, brushing up against 'the end justifies the means'. They're also playing an 'overbearing father' angle with him and Clara (bumping up against her 'teacher' role, which does make for some good moments), which will probably drop away if and when we get a new companion. Despite the very Three costume, he reminds me rather a lot of One...

hS

So did I. by Fractal Dawn on 2014-11-04 18:25:00 UTC Reply

Also, I fully echo the sentiments both about Series 8 and about absolutely not watching "Kill the Moon," which was as far as I am concerned absolutely atrocious.

The thing I am finding fascinating about this series is that while the writing is being uneven (not exactly something new, with this show), the acting is often rescuing it. Capaldi has, in my opinion, been doing an absolutely astonishing job, particularly in drawing from so many Doctors for inspiration. Also, if he's like One, it's probably because he's almost guaranteed to be the last actor playing the Doctor who actually watched Hartnell play him back in the day; I have no doubt it's deliberate. Also, a friend of mine noted that when he talks to himself, sometimes his mannerisms slip into Four's, probably deliberately.

All of which is to say despite the writing fails in the most recent episode--which there were, I will not spoil but there were a few moments that had me twitching--it's the acting that has been really making this season well worth it.

My two-cents.
I probably would have enjoyed Mummy... by Iximaz on 2014-11-04 15:37:00 UTC Reply

If it weren't for the fact I spent the majority of the episode trying not to freak out in front of my family. Mummies have been a major phobia of mine ever since I was little, and completely irrational on my part at that. Still, the rest of the family thought it was excellent.

Robot of Sherwood was full of plotholes, there were badly executed scene changes, and the whole thing was just cringeworthy. This one had us yelling at the TV the whole time.

Into the Dalek had an interesting premise, but that's all I can really say for it. The rest of it was like a fanfic episode.

Kill the Moon should not have happened. Enough said.

Time Heist was fantastic and I've watched it twice now. I'm probably going to watch it again tonight. I mean, come on, the whole thing was phenomenal! But I don't want to say too much for fear of spoilers

Listen actually made me cry a little at the end. But again, spoilers.

The only reason I'm here is to close the HTML. by KittyEden on 2014-11-05 02:54:00 UTC Reply

And I shall do so now.

*sheepish grin* by Iximaz on 2014-11-05 11:40:00 UTC Reply

And this is why we have 'Preview'.

Well................ by Iximaz on 2014-11-04 14:40:00 UTC Reply

There were some episodes that were excellent in terms of writing, and others that just made my entire family do nothing but point out the plotholes.

I would say yes, because in the event the writing gets better, you'll not have several seasons to watch in order to get caught up.

Besides, Moffat (my dad and I call him the Troll and shall be referred to as such fom here on out) wrote the most recent episode and I personally thought it was fantastic. Just the right amount of creepy mixed with suspense and several tear-jerkers and a big DUN DUN DUNNNN moment... though the Troll wrote Clara to do something that seemed horribly OOC near the beginning of the episode.

Any other Whovians who'd like to weigh in?

I almost cried at the beginning. by Tigeress on 2014-11-04 16:11:00 UTC Reply

I'm not a crying person.

But Missy just gets better and better!

I almost did, too. by Iximaz on 2014-11-04 16:48:00 UTC Reply

Until I remembered how many times we would think someone died only for them to come back later. So I'm not too worried that he'll be able to come back.

Also, can we take a moment to recognize the major double standards that still exist? When Missy assaulted the Doctor the first time they met, it was obviously Played For Laughs when the Doctor was rather horrified by it. And quite frankly, it disturbed me, too.

Depends entirely on how well it's written. by Huinesoron on 2014-11-04 11:00:00 UTC Reply

I've always been a proponent of the idea that any story-type can be written well. The last one that came up was Tenth Walkers in LotR, and I spent a little while proving that one.

I don't think I've done OC/canon (well, technically I have, since Dafydd == Maglor, but that's rather different), but I have written a romance between two unconnected canon characters, which hits many of the same points: The Horn and the Harp.

But yeah, it basically comes down to the same questions as any other story. Is the canon in-character? Is the OC believable? Does the plot make sense in light of both the setting and the characters? Then you have a workable story. ('Good', obviously, requires things like spelling and nice writing, as well, but at the least this wouldn't be bad).

Of course, some characters are more difficult to pair off than others. Finding a girlfriend for Captain Kirk shouldn't be hard, though I wouldn't expect it to last long. Breaking up Anakin and Padme would be a lot harder, because Ani is an obsessive lunatic. You could probably get Padme to leave him - she was basically doing so when he killed her, so shuffle events around, make his darkness more obvious, and you could pull it off - but that would likely just flip him into full-on Vader mode early, making a relationship with an OC unlikely.

("But you said any story-" Yes, and I'll stand by that. If challenged, I'd go with either killing Padme, or having her take a stand against the Jedi for political reasons. The former, if done early enough, would give Ani time to back down from the Dark Side, briefly; the latter could drive a wedge between them, with him taking her actions as a personal insult. Since this would be pre-Vader, he wouldn't actually strangle her, so it could work)

hS

10th Walker by Niko on 2014-11-05 00:12:00 UTC Reply

The Tenth Walker thing was actually one that I've been curious about! I'll have to look in the archives to find that discussion and read it when I get a chance.

We've all seen horrible, 10th Walker Suefics. On the other hand, I've seen 10th Walker fics that I thought were really good, with well-written OC's (who were believable as not only people but a part of Tolkien's world, who weren't super powerful, who definitely understood the temptation of the One Ring) and canon characters that weren't OOC.
True, true. by bluefa02 on 2014-11-04 17:59:00 UTC Reply

It's just that most of these days, it's getting harder and harder to find fanfic authors that are willing to take the effort to actually make the story interesting and believeable. Nowadays, 80% of OCxCanon or ships of characters that had never met are written like the author recruited a drunk monkey banging on a keyboard while looking at a harlequin romance novel.

You have no idea how many Suethors I've seen that just assume that since they paired their Sue up with a canon character that all other ships involving that canon are inferior to their amazing, spectacular, beautiful (ly gross) pairing.

'These days'? by Huinesoron on 2014-11-04 20:53:00 UTC Reply

Eesh, bluefa02, it's been that way for at least twelve years -look at the Sues Jay and Acy had to deal with. Writers are writers, no matter when they're writing - and the sad truth is that most writers don't particularly try.

hS

Ah, well. One can dream. by bluefa02 on 2014-11-04 21:05:00 UTC Reply

I just like to imagine that once upon a time, the internet wasn't that bad.

Haha, who am I kidding. Sues existed before the internet even was imagined. But that's why we're here, right?

AnixOC by Mikelus on 2014-11-04 16:15:00 UTC Reply

I've seen it done well a few times, though the requirements were always focused on him getting to know someone between Episode 1 and Episode 2.

I remember one story where he and another Padawan got close. Not enough to prevent him from having his relationship with Padme in Episode 2, but enough for him to back away from the marriage. After that, the war pushed him together with the OC a lot and the two of them ended up getting together.

I Agree by Pesoptim on 2014-11-04 04:14:00 UTC Reply

Yes, I have read a few OCxCannon fics that were believeable and well-written. Heck, I'm writing one myself. However, there is definently a certain stigma with such fanfictions, usually because OC shipfics make up a large part of (if not the majority of) Suefics.

*nods* by bluefa02 on 2014-11-04 14:58:00 UTC Reply

It's even worse when the Suethor comments on other ships involving her love interest with something along the lines of "OMG U CANT DO DAT!!1!!!!11!!!!2ONE HE'S ALREADY PAIRED WITH [insert oh-so-creative sue name here]!!!11!!!!onehundredonetyone!!!eleven"

...I think I just threw up a little from typing that.