I'm not sure that's strictly true...

Subject: I'm not sure that's strictly true...
Author: the Irish Samurai
Posted on: 2013-01-13 17:33:00 UTC

My understanding is that canon won't snap back until the Sue's presence/influence has been removed - certainly killing them is one way (and probably the easiest way by far) of achieving that, but simply taking them out of the continua of the fic should also work.

Obviously, the Flowers don't approve of taking Sues into other canons, but I'm pretty sure that I've read missions where the Sue has been captured alive and taken to DMSE&R instead of being killed (although I can't actually find them now, so I may be talking nonsense).

But yeah, if the Sue is supposed to die as part of her story, then the agents have to get there first.

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Was thinking... by Great Basil Pasta on 2013-01-12 03:54:00 UTC Reply

...is it possible to dispose of a Mary-Sue in a way that doesn't involve violence or death? Say, turning them into an animal via some form of poison?

I'm very curious.

There is personality dialysis... by Lily Winterwood on 2013-01-13 19:24:00 UTC Reply

Simply decreasing the level of Glitter in a Sue's bloodstream may remove the Sueishness. It's the rough equivalent of rewriting the character.
This is the prescribed treatment (along with a stint in FicPsych) for all Homestuck fantrolls, since they're all canon characters according to Word of God.

Very interesting! by Great Basil Pasta on 2013-01-13 19:30:00 UTC Reply

Cool stuff there.

Well... by SpecstacularSC on 2013-01-12 08:26:00 UTC Reply

I've often toyed with the idea of banishing the Sue to the Void.

They're not dead, because that implies that they existed, and were thus alive, at some point.

The Void? by Great Basil Pasta on 2013-01-12 18:09:00 UTC Reply

Eh... what on earth is the Void? I have no idea.

Oh, just a black realm of nonexistence. by SpecstacularSC on 2013-01-12 19:29:00 UTC Reply

Nothing major.

I see. by Great Basil Pasta on 2013-01-12 19:30:00 UTC Reply

Hm..

But what about the Nexus? What if a Sue was sent THERE?

Hrm... by SpecstacularSC on 2013-01-12 19:34:00 UTC Reply

Isn't the Nexus a realm of pure, unbridled power?

Unless it overwhelmed and destroyed her, wouldn't it just God!ify her?

You have the wrong Nexus, my friend... by Great Basil Pasta on 2013-01-12 19:37:00 UTC Reply

I speak of the Nexus that was created by Wolf-Prince-Leon, my DeviantART pal. It's a place of healing. But there IS a catch to it: any human that enters the Nexus is turned into an animal until they leave.

I personally hate the place, but it has its uses.

I just outright call that Heaven. by SpecstacularSC on 2013-01-12 19:43:00 UTC Reply

Or Valhalla, Nirvana, whichever celestial realm of healing and purity you prefer.

(Of course, Valhalla is more of an eternal Boot Camp for the Ragnarok, but whatever.)

But I understand the idea here - send a Sue to a massively celestial land, and all the healing magics and energies just pulverize the glitter out of her system until she's all human, right?

Pretty much, yup~ by Great Basil Pasta on 2013-01-12 19:45:00 UTC Reply

You get the idea.

(The Nexus is not Heaven, though. In fact, it used to be something like Purgatory in Wolf-Prince-Leon's mythology. He is a complicated man, and my teenage brain cannot handle his genius, so forgive my shoddy explanation.)

Oh, mythology is always a tad muddled. by SpecstacularSC on 2013-01-12 20:02:00 UTC Reply

My mythology in the Chronicles of Zeyr holds that the galaxy Zeyr is located in was created by five lesser gods as an experiment with empowering mortals from the start and seeing how that messed with natural evolution.

Then, these same gods created a race of immortal peacekeepers to both keep the subjects from destroying themselves and take notes on the finer details of the project, and when they first encountered mortals, they were mistaken as the gods who created the galaxy.

There's also three different Celestial Realms that you might end up at after death.

Eldraec (immortal protectors) go to the Land of Souls, which is like a vast kingdom of platinum and diamond (two materials that are extremely rare in Zeyr), but which is barred from humans by a huge staircase and gate in the middle of an impossibly complex, fog-ridden forest.

Humans and Elves go to the Issenfeir, which is... well, look up "Asgard Too Human" in google image search. It's a bit like that.

Eldraec Champions go to Verrüan, which can basically be called your buddy's Nexus, only sans the humans-to-animals part, and it's guarded by an indestructible wall around its circumference.

So yeah, mythology is tricky. But, it's also good fun.

Whoo-wee. by Great Basil Pasta on 2013-01-12 20:09:00 UTC Reply

That's pretty in-depth.

As for my own mythology... I don't have any. *laugh* The only story I've ever written with any form of original mythology in it is titled "Light of Forgiveness". There are dragons involved. that is all.

MYTHOLOGICALSPARKLEDRAGONSWOOO by SpecstacularSC on 2013-01-12 20:18:00 UTC Reply

Hey, gotta start somewhere.

I've got familial relationships going with Zeyr's Eldraec, that's how extensive I've managed to get it so far. Still trying to work out how and when mortals were given magic...

Easy, Specs! -baps- (nm) by KittyNoodles on 2013-01-12 20:53:00 UTC Reply

Mew! >. by SpecstacularSC on 2013-01-12 21:07:00 UTC Reply

Just that the void kind of makes you go bonkers. by Ellipsis Flood on 2013-01-12 13:22:00 UTC Reply

I think throwing a Sue into the void could be considered torture.

Well, yeah, there's that... by SpecstacularSC on 2013-01-12 19:31:00 UTC Reply

But otherwise, it's near-seamless in application.

Re: Was thinking... by Phobos on 2013-01-12 04:08:00 UTC Reply

In the world of the mind, all things are possible.

-Phobos, so deep he's hanging out with Mole-people
Well... by KittyNoodles on 2013-01-12 04:06:00 UTC Reply

From what I understand (anyone, feel free to add onto- or correct anything), the canon doesn't snap back into place until the Sue is dead - otherwise her influence continues on, no matter what shape or minor mishap befalls her.

Along that same vein, if it's one of those 'dramatic death' Sues - or any Sue that dies in the end - you have to kill them before they can die as their story would have them do, because otherwise their death sort of stamps the Suefluence onto the canon and makes a much larger headache for those of us protecting the canon in question.

I'm not sure that's strictly true... by the Irish Samurai on 2013-01-13 17:33:00 UTC Reply

My understanding is that canon won't snap back until the Sue's presence/influence has been removed - certainly killing them is one way (and probably the easiest way by far) of achieving that, but simply taking them out of the continua of the fic should also work.

Obviously, the Flowers don't approve of taking Sues into other canons, but I'm pretty sure that I've read missions where the Sue has been captured alive and taken to DMSE&R instead of being killed (although I can't actually find them now, so I may be talking nonsense).

But yeah, if the Sue is supposed to die as part of her story, then the agents have to get there first.

That's the concept behind reformed Sues. (nm) by Ellipsis Flood on 2013-01-13 20:07:00 UTC Reply

Oh yeah, I'd actually forgotten about them. (nm) by the Irish Samurai on 2013-01-14 22:45:00 UTC Reply

Oh, my... by Great Basil Pasta on 2013-01-12 04:12:00 UTC Reply

Death is truly unavoidable with a Sue, then....

Thank you for the clarification, miss KittyNoodles. (Any nicknames you'd like me to call you by?)

The reason I ask is because my would-be Agent abhors violence, and would really prefer to not have to dispose of a Sue in a violent manner. Perhaps euthanasia is an option?

(Also, I'd like to know... I read an LOTR badfic sporking where one of the on-duty Agents was kidnapped and tortured by the Warrior!Sue, who believed that the tortured Agent was aiding Sauron. Know where I can find it?)

Re: Oh, my... by firemagic on 2013-01-12 14:34:00 UTC Reply

Here it is!

http://www.freewebs.com/manxandshadow/missiontwo.htm

Thank you so kindly, Firemagic! by Great Basil Pasta on 2013-01-12 17:55:00 UTC Reply

Thank you!

Uh... how to repay you... uh, would you like some cookies? They're fresh-baked and not poisonous!

Why thank you! (nm) by firemagic on 2013-01-12 18:07:00 UTC Reply

Yeah, pretty much~ by KittyNoodles on 2013-01-12 05:14:00 UTC Reply

Anytime! (And Kit, Kitty, or Caroline work fine for me - although that last one's my real name. :D Whichever you prefer!)

An agent who doesn't like violence would be interesting - might s/he later be transferred to a non-violent department somewhere down the line (such as the Department of Intelligence, which investigates but does not kill badfics)?

If by euthanasia you mean poisoning the Sue's food... it would certainly be entertaining to read! :D

(Not sure where to find that one... Also, you don't have to capitalize 'agent' all the time; only when it's part of a title, as in 'Agent Suchandsuch'.)

No, he wouldn't. by Great Basil Pasta on 2013-01-12 18:11:00 UTC Reply

My agent will not be transferred to a non-violent department, unfortunately for him.

The poisoning.... perhaps. Anything that would dispose of the Sue in a way that wouldn't cause it pain.

Painless assassinations... by the Irish Samurai on 2013-01-13 18:21:00 UTC Reply

Well, a lot of it will depend on what world your agent is in at the time, but poisons should work pretty much anywhere. Other than that, anything done quickly enough should be relativly painless for the Sue: decapitation by sword, gunshot to the head or heart, snapped neck etc.

Although if your agent is wanting to avoid actual violence as well as just unnecessary suffering, then poisons might be his best bet. Or some kind of stun weapon (if available) before the actual assassination, or he could just let his partner handle that particular task.

I see! by Great Basil Pasta on 2013-01-13 18:28:00 UTC Reply

Thank you for your wise advice, Mr. Irish Samurai!

To be completely fair... by KittyNoodles on 2013-01-12 20:54:00 UTC Reply

If you hit them hard enough the first time, I'm pretty sure bludgeoning doesn't hurt too much. It's just messy.

As a matter of fact, I think smothering is relatively painless, too...

(Anyone else mildly disturbed that I know these things?)

I had an agent who did that. by Pretzel on 2013-01-12 07:43:00 UTC Reply

Orion, who initially started out in DMS, transferred to Bad Slash after he found that he didn't really like killing sues.