Subject: Up top, that is.
Author:
Posted on: 2016-06-29 15:44:00 UTC
My phone screen is big enough that your spoiler bit didn't show up until I scrolled past and ended up seeing it.
Subject: Up top, that is.
Author:
Posted on: 2016-06-29 15:44:00 UTC
My phone screen is big enough that your spoiler bit didn't show up until I scrolled past and ended up seeing it.
So, I'm probably incredibly late to the party, and most likely most of you already know about this and will just wave over it, but I'm still gonna bring this up, because this could be really interesting discussion to see if we can predict who will sit on the World's Most Uncomfortable Chair. Just a heads up, I'm not a historian nor an Englishman, so this is based solely on the research I found on the Internet:
Game of Thrones, and of course its book counterpart, is an alternative history of the War of the Roses - a series of wars for control of the throne of England. Conflict between the Starks and the Lannisters the Yorks and the Lancasters ends with the victory of the latter House.
We start with King Henry VI. He was rumoured to be insane, feeble-minded, experienced several mental breakdowns, so people began to challenge his reign. It's not very hard to draw a parallel between Henry VI and the Mad King Aerys II Targaryen.
During the War (parallel to Robert's Rebellion) there were two very short-reigning kings, Edwards IV and V, before the War of the Roses ended with Henry VII won the throne by defeating King Richard III at the Battle of Bosworth Field.
(On a side-note, Richard III was portrayed by the Tudor scholars as a deformed and was the subject of many attacks... Tyrion Lannister, anyone?)
So now we enter the Tudor era with Henry VII who, when compared to the world of Westeros, reflects Robert Baratheon. Henry VII was called the usurper, supports the Lancasters, but ends up marrying Elizabeth of York (In this role, Lyanna Stark?). They wind up having the son we know as Henry VIII. In his youth, Henry VIII was a celebrity. Athlete, expert jouster, popular with the ladies, cultured... Well, we all know how he ended up. Basically the fallen hero. So now we see that Robert Baratheon has traits of both Henry VII and Henry VIII. Although, seeing how Henry VIII was a cruel king, most of us would make a connection between him and Joffrey, so how do we explain that?
Henry VIII legitimized only one of his bastard children - Henry FitzRoy - whom he got from an affair with Elizabeth "Bessie" Blount. And remember Robert in season 1? "Bessie! Thank the gods for Bessie..." FitzRoy died really young by disease (on paper), but it was speculated that he was poisoned.
After Henry VIII, his son - Edward VI - inherits the throne. In the world of Westeros, this is Tommen Barahtheon. Edward inherits the throne very young, he is gullible and is pushed around, mostly by the family from his mother's side. After Edward, for a very short time the country is ruled by Lady Jane Grey, the Nine-Day Queen, until she was thrown into the Tower and... off with her head. Now, there might've been small parallel between Lady Grey and Margery Tyrell, but that would be stretching.
WARNING, WE'RE MOVING INTO THE SPOILER TERRITORY! THIS IS YOUR LAST CHANCE! SPOILERS AHEAD! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!
In the Season 6 finale, what a shocker - everybody dies, and Cersei Lannister becomes the Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. In English history, there is another cruel woman who claimed the throne after Lady Grey had been executed, and the parallel is really evident
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Mary I Tudor, AKA Bloody Mary. I think most of you have heard of the good lady.
And this is where predictions and speculations start. After Bloody Mary, another woman sits on the throne - Good Queen Bess, the Virgin Queen, Elizabeth I. Who might this be, in the world of Westeros? My best guess would be Sansa Stark.
After Elizabeth, the throne is claimed by James VI of Scotland, who becomes James I of England. Since Scotland is the closest thing to the Wall and the North I can imagine, I would assume Jon Snow (current King in the North), would eventually claim the throne.
But those are just my predictions. Questions? Comments? Let the discussion begin!
While I'm not a big fan of Game of Thrones, I do enjoy the hell out of history. And by "enjoy the hell out of history," I mean to the extent that I got two degrees relating to the field. Based on some of my own research, I think you've missed a few points with your comparison between the show and the actual Wars of the Roses.
You say that both the book and the show are supposed to be an alternate history of the Wars. And yet, the majority of what you've discussed in your post has to do with events that occurred after the Wars ended with the ascension of Henry Tudor. to the English throne (minus a few Yorkist revolts). You can't claim that the series represents a certain period, then discuss how it only really connects to things that occurred after said period. That undoes part of your central argument.
Painting Robert Baratheon as an amalgam of Henry VII and Henry VIII seems to me very much a surface level interpretation of all three men. For one thing, Henry VII was a far more competent ruler than Robert seems to be. He helped to re-centralize royal power and oversaw major lucrative trade agreements. As for Henry VIII, whether or not he was truly "a cruel king" depends on which historian is writing about him. He's certainly no Joffrey.
BIG SPOILERS START HERE.
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I really have to call into question your comparing Cersei with Mary I. Once again, saying the two are analogues feels like a very shallow interpretation of similarities. They might both be cruel and driven women, but for wildly different reasons. Cersei is driven by power: power for her family, but more so power for herself. One of Mary's major drive was religion: to whit, the preservation of Catholicism as the dominant force in England. I don't recall that being a big deal for Cersei. Mary was also never quite the schemer that Cersei managed to be. To select a historical figure more in line with the Wars of the Roses, Cersei might be closer to Margaret of Anjou, wife of Henry VI and a major figure on the side of the Lancasters.
I can't really qualify how well Sansa fits as Elizabeth I, but I will say that it doesn't really fit as an analogue when considering familial connections.
I found three videos on the subject. The first two are more in-depth, but don't necessarily go into the Wars of the Roses all that much. The third is a bit simplified, but covers the subject. It's also a cute cartoon!
The Real History Behind Game Of Thrones : Part 1
The Real History Behind Game Of Thrones : Part 2
The wars that inspired Game of Thrones - Alex Gendler
... that the sequel series will be about how the son of that last person you mentioned ticks off the upper and middle classes so much that they fight a bloodstained Civil War (again! fun!) and declare a religiously-oriented non-monarchaical government - only to have it overthrown by a king who just wants to party.
Man, and then his religious brother takes the throne, and his daughter's husband (who's also his cousin - incest sounds Game of Thronesy!) stages an invasion to overthrow him... and then their line dies out and the whole thing goes by treaty to some foreigners anyway, only the most recently overthrown line keeps trying to take it back...
Sweet burning stars, there's absolutely no reason to stop, is there? Because after you hit the Georges, you've got the American Revolution looming up on you, too...
hS, not a Game of Thrones fan, but way into history
...In the books at least. He's dead. Sansa's a possibility though, being groomed by Littlefinger.
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If Martin's hints are anything to go by, and I think they're reliable, Jon will get some variant of the resurrection treat. Especially now that the show is confirming R+L=J, which would have no impact if Jon stayed dead.
For the ugly chair now, I think Daenerys is more probable, by virtue of having dragons and probably being the last to enter the run, after all the others tried to get it.
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I focused mainly on the show, since it has surpassed the books under the blessing of GRRM.
You really should have marked it as such.
-July
My phone screen is big enough that your spoiler bit didn't show up until I scrolled past and ended up seeing it.
The placement of said mark, however, is another thing it seems.