Subject: Thank you very much!
Author:
Posted on: 2016-03-17 19:52:00 UTC
I especially appreciate that you wrote an in-universe explanation. Bonus points for the additional effort.
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Wednesday Pluggage: Ardolindi with Led Zeppelin. by
on 2016-03-16 21:02:00 UTC
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I'll jump straight to the link:
Ardolindi: Episode 05 - The Battle of Evermore
(And I'll note again that the title in the document links to a Youtube recording of the song, for easy listening.)
One thing that was cut from this (and will be revisited, never fear) is an extended discussion of ancillary canons. These are fictional universes which are canonical (ie, written by the universe creator) but, for whatever reason, not regarded as the 'real' version of their canon. A list of the ones that occur to me:
-The Book of Lost Tales, obviously - a self-contained version of Middle-earth that's very different to the 'final' version.
-The Grasshopper Lies Heavy, the book-in-a-book from The Man in the High Castle - it's a canon that exists, but which we only have fragments of.
-Doctor Who is full of the things, including (at minimum) the Doctor Who Unbound radio plays. I think at least some of our Time Lords come from them, too.
-Nowadays, and under a liberal interpretation of the term: the Star Wars: Legends continuity.
I'm actually less sure about those last two; I don't know that things acknowledged by their creators to be explicit AUs should really count (otherwise we'd be counting 'alternate endings of computer games', too). But the first two absolutely do.
So, what others are there? I'm sure there's heaps. ^_^
hS -
I feel like I need a bit of clarification. by
on 2016-03-17 06:33:00 UTC
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I'm a bit confused as to the difference between ancillary canons and AUs. It seems like it has to do with whether the work in question (if it exists in the real world and not just in-universe) is officially made or declared canon by the creator. Am I running along the right lines?
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A brief clarification. by
on 2016-03-17 11:20:00 UTC
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A Note on Ancillary Canons
by Agent Norlossë, Division of Applied-and-theoretical Multiversal Physics
The PPC traditionally divides works of fiction into two categories: those which were written or authorised by the creator/owner of a given verse are 'canon', while everything else is 'fanfic'. Within the 'fanfic' category, we recognise a great many distinctions, including the key one between goodfic and badfic. Canon, however, has simply been called canon.
The Spectrum of Integrated Canon Hierarchies (name under dispute) aims to change that. Using it, we divide canon worlds into 4 categories:
1/ Canon Verses. These are what we usually recognise as canon - the works of the creator, or things accepted as being extensions and part of them.
2/ Canon AUs. This covers alternate universes and timelines which are recognised as such either by the canon, or by the media in which it is set. Something like the Star Trek Mirror Universe falls into this group, as do most of Doctor Who's alternate timelines, and I'd class alternate endings to video games in the same way. There's some disagreement over whether those three classes of universe should be separated out as sub-categories.
3/ EUs. Expanded Universes are bodies of work authorised by the canon's creator, but not explicitly made a part of the main canon. In some cases, the creator specifically says that their canon can override the EU if they ever come into conflict. Star Wars, Star Trek, and Doctor Who all have massive EUs, though in the case of the Star Wars one, there's a major ongoing discussion about it (see below).
4/ Ancillary Canons. These are split into two subcategories:
4a/ Overwritten Ancillaries. These are worlds which were once canon - they were created with the intent that they would be canon - but no longer are. The classic example (and one very close to my heart) is the Book of Lost Tales - a nearly-complete work by J.R.R. Tolkien which was superceded by his later interpretation of Middle-earth.
The other big-name example right now is the Star Wars EU/Legends-verse. Since it's been disavowed as canon, but was always an EU and not a class 1 Canon Verse, we've got a big argument going on as to whether it's a class 4a, a class 3 still, a class 2 (since it's officially an AU, but not recognised as such in canon), or something else entirely. Fun times all round.
4b/ Encapsulated Ancillaries. These don't entirely exist. They're those worlds which exists as books-within-books and the like. World One readers can only experience the portion of them that makes it into the full canon story, but readers in the canon can discover the whole thing.
There are a few quirky borderline cases where Encapsulated Ancillaries have been published in World One in their own right. The works of crime-writer Richard Castle are a prominent example, as is the novel Bad Twin, by a character from Lost. Whether these are class 4bs or fully-fledged class 1s is - you guessed it - being debated at length.
~
Yup, this is what Norlossë's ended up doing.
hS -
Thank you very much! by
on 2016-03-17 19:52:00 UTC
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I especially appreciate that you wrote an in-universe explanation. Bonus points for the additional effort.
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Some ancillary canons: by
on 2016-03-17 05:04:00 UTC
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(which, for the record, I consider full worlds that our world simply doesn't have access to):
Don Juan Triumphant, written by the Phantom of the Opera
A Clockwork Orange, an in-universe novel that our novel is named for
the play based on the poetry collection "LOVELESS" in Final Fantasy VII
the specialest one: "Bad Twin," a rough draft novel written by a character on Lost. The writer was killed in the initial plane crash, and another character ends up reading it before it winds up being burned, and then it never gets published.
In universe, that is. The novel was fully published in the real world, and is available in bookstores!
Lastly, way too many citations in the flavor text of Magic: the Gathering cards.
—doctorlit is on day fourteen of dealing with food poisoning! Yaaaaaaay!? -
Fantastic work, as always. by
on 2016-03-17 00:04:00 UTC
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However, I think you've missed some obvious ancillary canons:-
#1: "The Blind Assassin" from, er, The Blind Assassin
#2: "The Mad Trist" from The Fall of the House of Usher
#3: The entire bibliography of Kilgore Trout. -
Yay, Led Zeppelin! by
on 2016-03-16 23:11:00 UTC
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Any band that blatantly references Tolkien is good in my books. "Stairway to Heaven" is full of lyrics that remind me of Middle-earth, and they mention Gollum in one song, too, though I'm afraid I don't remember which one. I didn't expect them to show up in Ardolindi, but I'm glad they did. ^_^
I can't think of any ancillary canons off the top of my head, but I'll let you know if I do.
~Neshomeh -
Not exactly my style... by
on 2016-03-16 22:29:00 UTC
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But the lyrics are great, and the music is quite good. I'll have to check more of their tracks.
And we need more hands for decoding your damn badges.
The mix heart/book is for the Shipfest, that at least seems pretty sure.
Does anyone think that the unclaimed ones could be linked to Permission request andor posting missions/interludes/etc? -
Not much to say other than good job. :) by
on 2016-03-16 22:02:00 UTC
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Did you really put together an Ardrolindi playlist? :D I like it.
Re: Alternate continuities, the Whoniverse alone has the novels, the radio plays, the comics, the films that are supposed to be retellings of earlier stories but feature a human scientist named "Doctor Who", the stage plays...
I personally consider all of these to be canon in their own right, just existing in their own continuities. So to me, what happens in the novels doesn't happen in the same continuity as the show. (Though this can get muddled by writers referencing the novels in the show, the audio plays in the novels, etc...)
As for other continua like this, the first thing that comes to mind is Star Trek, though Animorphs has a few books (notably the choose your own adventure books) that nobody considers canon.
And again with the badges, come on! >.>