Subject: Can I second both of those choices?
Author:
Posted on: 2016-02-19 06:14:00 UTC
And also suggest Neil Gaiman as an option, for much the same reasons.
After all, between Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman we got Good Omens, which honestly is everything Nesh said in a single novel.
For fictional, going with that theme, but treading the line, I'd like to nominate Adam Young.
-July
I was talking with some friends and we posed a question: If some extraterrestrial beings were to essentially put Earth/Humanity on trial (not dissimilar from The Encounter at Farpoint, Start Trek TNG Episodes 1 and 2) and you could select any person, either real or otherwise to defend humanity in this incident who would you chose?
Rules: Can be any person from Earth's History or Fiction, but no religious figures (that could just devolve quickly). Further the person you chose does not necessarily need to be human. All you need to do is just post the name, and if you want you can add some reasons why, that would make the most interesting discussion after all.
I am curious to see what results will show up.
The Doctor (3)
Acacia (2)
King Arthur (2)
Batman (2)
Terry Prachett (2)
Mr. Rodgers (2)
Gene Roddenberry (2)
Anne Frank (1)
Newborn Baby (1)
Council of Gandhi, Lincoln, Churchill, etc. (1)
Death (of the Endless) (1)
Neil Gaiman (1)
Your Mother (1)
Captain Jean-Luc Picard (1)
Superman (1)
And I think that's everything. Based on what I know about the community, I am not surprised that the Doctor is in the lead. I find some of the ones tied for second a bit surprising. Will the Doctor be our chosen champion? Will someone else supplant him? Or will our champion be a yet unknown answer? Stay tuned for our next episode.
Gene Roddenberry and Terry Pratchett spring to mind, but you could take your pick of any of the great SF/fantasy authors. My reasoning is that you have to know people pretty well to write about them convincingly. You have to know their flaws, their pettiness, even their evil... and yet, through all that clear-eyed cynicism, you also have to believe in your heart of hearts that people have it in them to be more. Otherwise you'd have nothing to write about.
~Neshomeh
And also suggest Neil Gaiman as an option, for much the same reasons.
After all, between Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman we got Good Omens, which honestly is everything Nesh said in a single novel.
For fictional, going with that theme, but treading the line, I'd like to nominate Adam Young.
-July
Nienna is a good candidate, I think, because she can bring good out of bad in the form of wisdom from sorrow. She weeps for the horrible things in the world, but the fact that she's willing to weep means she thinks it's worth weeping for, if that makes any sense.
Manwe because (a) no way he'll be intimidated and (b) he doesn't truly understand evil, and I think that's good, in a way, because he'll always bring it back to the positive. I think. I haven't made a great study of his characterization.
-Alleb, who is getting tired and loopy, and you should disregard her if she makes no sense.
I wanted to stay away from essentially gods/goddesses, because I thought it would be too easy. Also wanted to avoid any hard feelings.
After some thought I figure that fully fictional gods/goddesses/supreme beings can work, though I still kind of think it is a little bit cheating, but that's okay. I was willing to allow someone to say The Mighty Thor (but only the Marvel Superhero, I would not have accepted Thor, Norse God of Thunder).
Apparently, tired!me has better ideas than I thought. ^_^
-Alleb
Batman. Point A: He would've expected this to happen at one point. Point B: He's human. A fictional human, but completely human nonetheless. If we were going to try to dominate the judges, I'd go for the Batman of the 853rd century. If we're going for convincing that humanity can change, The one from the JLAU. Also, wouldn't Harbinger just indoctrinate whatever we sent to defend ourselves? Just saying. Another choice would be a newborn child. Just let them see the innocence of certain humans.
Batman was actually one of the ones I came up with. As for Harbinger, indoctrination usually takes an extended period time, longer than what I have in mind for this.
Here's the way I was thinking Batman would work:
He does his stick and basically causes the Joker to attempt to take over the entire group. This causes the organic members to try to gain control through their own methods. Aizen's Zanpakuto's total hypnosis gives him a distinct advantage, Batman, being Batman already knew about this ability and was using artificial sight, he is unaffected by it, while Aizen is gaining control, Batman gets on the line with Oracle who hacks in and disables Skynet which had already taken control of Agent Smith taking both of them out of the fight.
Batman then gets in his Bat-rocket (or whatever) and sneaks aboard Harbinger, (since Reapers can be breached). He sneaks to the Mass Drive, disables it which either disables or destroys Harbinger, Batman gets back to the main council where now Aizen has taken full control. Batman exploits Aizen's over-confidence and proposes a one on one fight to determine the fate of the world. Aizen agrees, thinking he has the advantage because of his zanpakuto, Batman using artificial sight is unaffected by it. He gains the upper hand, but when Aizen attempts Kido Batman uses one of his freeze grenades (from the Arkham Series) fully incapacitates Aizen. Q comes to and sees that Batman has saved the council even though they were trying to destroy Earth, realizes he doesn't want to have to deal with Batman, decides it isn't worth it effectively surrenders just as the rest of the Justice League arrive to save Earth leading to this exchange:
Batman: Took you long enough
Superman: What happened?
Batman: It's over, we won.
Superman: You defeated them? Alone?
Batman: Yes.
Superman: How?
Batman: Simple...It's because...
Batman: I'm Batman!
Thus revealing to the world that Batman really does have superpowers. Being Batman.
There are basically three ways for someone to win this scenario (such as it is)
1. Convince a majority (5) of the panel that humans are worth saving/sparing. This is what most of you have been going for which is what I was hoping for.
2. Convince one of a select few individuals on the panel that could force the others to follow along. I would say those are Q, Aizen, or Father. If you think another could force all the others to go along feel free to suggest it, just be prepared to answer how. For example Q has near omnipotence. Aizen has his zanpakuto which lets him hypnotize and manipulate others. Father has a philosopher's stone and stupid powerful alchemy.
3. There could also be a more violent solution, but if just one of the panel is still able to function without changing his/her/its mind then the Earth is doomed.
So far this has been pretty interesting, I think Mr. Rogers is my favorite answer so far. I have another possible solution I'll share later. But as an update the following have been proposed.
1. The Doctor
2. Mr. Rogers
3. Anne Frank
4. Acacia
5. Saitama
6. Death of the Endless
7. King Arthur (just for simplicity hS, I'm calling your second option this)
8. Superman
9. Your Mother (again for simplicity just using Your Mother overall)
10. Council of Gandhi, Lincoln, and Churchill
11. Captain Jean-Luc Picard
Currently the leading champions of Earth are (vote numbers are included, any time the individual is suggested regardless of 1st, 2nd, 3rd choice etc.):
1. The Doctor (3)
2. Acacia (2)
3. Mr. Rogers (2)
4. King Arthur (2)
If she can't handle it, then bollocks to it.
But seriously, hasn't the big blue actually done this a couple of times already? Not necessarily in a court setting, but still giving justification for the continuation of the human race.
Silver-Age? Post-Crisis? New 52? Stan Lee's? Kal Kent, one from the 853rd century? The "Original" from the 853rd Century? You're going to need to be a tad bit more specific.
Same problem I have with the Doctor. If humans have to rely on other species to defend ourselves... what's the point?
But I do agree. Hence why my first choice is Captain Jean-Luc Picard. He did it to Q before so why not another time or two?
So the purpose of the trial is to determine if humanity should survive. Are they worth anything. If the trial should fail Humanity will be wiped from existence, if humanity wins they will be left alone in peace from this body forever. The charges laid out are that humans are a vicious plague that will contribute nothing to greater to the universe than destruction and war. That even if given time to develop they will never rise beyond their baser instincts. That if they are allowed on the universal stage they will become vicious conquerors, and never go beyond that.
There are possibly photo spoilers below, you have been warned.
The panel that has laid these charges against the human race consist of the following:
Name: Q; Home: Q-Continuum
Name: Missy, AKA The Mistress, AKA The Master; Home: Neathersphere
Name Sosuke Aizen; Home: Hueco Mundo
Name: Father, AKA Homunculous; Home: Amestris
Name: Skynet, AKA Alex; Home: Skynet
Name>: Agent Smith; Home: The Matrix
Name: Kl'rt, AKA Super-Skrull; Home: Skrull Empire.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20120709193016%20alt=)
Name: The Joker, Home: Gotham City
And Presiding:
Name: Harbinger, Home: Dark Space
Consider this quote: "Despite everything, I believe that people are really good at heart." If she can say that after all she went through, she can certainly convince them of it.
Alternatively, I'd cut the Gordian Knot and send in Acacia to neuralyze them all.
-Alleb
Can you provide more info about the setting? Y'know, what are the aliens like, what part of humanity (and humanity's history) are the judging, etc.
So the way I see it is, something along the lines of "Are Humans truly civilized? Or are they just barbarians who know nothing more than violence, or even if they do know more are they really just base villains regardless."
Its more of they are judging the whole of human civilization from the rise from the primordial ooze through today. The aliens are really anything, to me it does not really matter. Just some further advanced lifeform.
Does that provide enough clarification?
It was soft, and yet loud enough to be heard over screaming children, rock bands, and aircraft taking off. Those who heard it said it had no discernable accent, and spoke in their own language - and every human on Earth heard it.
"Humanity," it said, and the world trembled to hear it. "Your planet has been watched for countless centuries. Today, your judgement will be delivered. Are you a race of truly intelligent creatures who should be allowed the freedom to roam this galaxy of yours - or are you a menace which must be put down immediately?
"Prepare your defence, Homo sapiens. In one week, we will hear your plea."
The voice died into silence. All across the Earth, the people stared at each other in wonder and horror, before bursting into babbling speech.
Then, abruptly, the voice cut back in. "Oh, right: and we'll be allowing the use of our tempero-fictional scoop for you to choose your best defender. Be seeing you!"
^_~
hS
The council would have Ghandi, Abraham Lincoln, and Winston Churchill... There would be input from mothers, and children, and Big Bird. There would also be input from the shamans of remote villages that didn't change much since before the industrial revolution, and leaders from remote villages that did suffer change. We'd also hear from the sleaziest politicians that didn't make it to office, and Nixon.
After all of that... the spokesperson for Earth would be the guy who edits the presentation together.
Or we just get the best lawyer who ever lived.
((Look, there's a dearth of Civ 5 fics out there but as soon as I find one it's getting missioned, k?))
Here's what I'd do, since I've been mostly very negative in this thread. I'm coming down with something green and slimy, is the thing, so do bear that in mind if I'm grouchy or incoherent. Well, more so than normal, anyways. =]
Anyway, my pick takes the form of a ficlet, so here we go.
---
The thing in the sky - some of those were still calling it God and arguing which one it was, which is why they hadn't been given an invitation - had given them a week. A group of people now stood at the allotted place and time, of every race, colour and creed. Young and old, rich and poor, in sickness and in health, the group stood together. And when the voice rang in their heads, they parted as one, and small footsteps edged cautiously forward, spurred on by larger ones.
"This is my great-grandson," said a man with a stoop and a stick and the wispy remnants of a long beard flicked about by the breeze. He was speaking in Amharic, but everyone understood. "He is three years old. We live together, his mother, her parents, and myself, and we live simple and honest lives.
"There will be people around the world expecting greatness. Kings and emperors, scientists and engineers, artists and poets. Those who have already accomplished greatness. But look at my great-grandson. My Tewodros, who has learned to walk and who can read a little of our language. He might do great things, or things which are terrible, or he might just live his life without doing much of anything at all.
"Wipe us out this day, Sky-Being, and you will not know."
The old man gripped his stick in knuckles so white some were worried the skin would split. He swayed slightly. His knees hurt a little. "My child, every child, is this planet and this people's future! If we do not give you cause to let us survive now, let our children give it! Because how will we ever improve, how can we improve, if we are exterminated now like rats in a pantry? Whatever crimes you think the human race has committed, and there have been many and they have been abominable, our children are innocent! So let them go! And let us be! Let us--"
And the old man sank to the floor, coughing and in pain, and the child ran to him. The old man was slowly lifted by a small, chubby hand, and the child turned around, and said, haltingly...
"I don't want to die."
And the world believed.
Which iteration of the Doctor? For example the War Doctor may be regarded very differently than say the 11th Doctor.
And if you are all so adamant that it should be the Doctor, why?
Because it's my favourite, I'm probably gonna be slightly biased, but I'll try to contain it:
Tenth seemed to be a perfect balance between the Straight-Outta-Gallifrey Ninth, and the Crazed Genius Eleventh. Like Fourth, he's very protective over humanity (something I didn't really get from Ninth), and he can actually be scary and execute punishment (something I didn't really get from Eleventh). Now, the reason I didn't choose the War Doctor, is because he was molded a warrior, not a diplomat, and Twelfth is too serious. Knowing Tenth, he would not only convince the invaders to drop all the charges, but would also negotiate some sort of beneficial deal for the planet. If I remember (Ix help), Tenth was the one who mentioned the Shadow Proclamation the most often, therefore struck me as the kind of guy who know the Law and how to bend it to his will.
Yes, he loves Earth and all that, and is devoted to defending it... but he's not actually very good at finding peaceful solutions. He drove off the Sycorax... by killing their leader. He defeated a werewolf... by getting Queen Victoria to kill it. The Krillitanes? K9 blew 'em up. Cybermen? Artificially-induced suicidal depression. The Wire? Imprisoned her. The Abzorbaloff he killed, and he sent both the Daleks and Cybermen into the void.
In fact, the only time he defended Earth in a peaceful manner in the entirety of Series 2 was when he sent a psychic alien baby on its way with the Olympic torch - and that didn't exactly involve negotiation.
If we want someone to verbally defend us, the Doctor has shown time and again that he is incapable of doing so.
hS
And was given a chance to leave the planet in peace. Instead, he decided to backstab the Doctor after losing to him. And even before that duel, the Doctor tried to talk them into leaving.
Now, I don't remember Tooth and Claw that well, but wasn't the werewolf brainwashed by the monks and turned into basically a wild animal residing in a host body? There isn't much room for conversation with a beast.
He actually gave Krillitanes a chance to back off. He met with Brother Lassar and warned him that if they continue doing so, it won't end well. They didn't listen.
Perhaps those aren't the examples of a flawless verbal defense, but it definitely proves that the Doctor doesn't leap straight into action and punishment.
But they never took it. I mean, anyone can give someone a chance:
"Hey, sucky all-powerful entities who nevertheless keep losing! Earth is cool, so how's about you leave us alone?"
Look, I gave them a chance to leave. ^_~
My understanding is we're looking for someone who can actually convince them, not someone - like the Doctor - who makes a decent effort but fails (virtually) every time.
(Hey, remember when he convinced Dalek Sek to be nice, only to have the other Daleks imprison and exterminate him? This is the situation we're in.)
hS
The first was Captain Jean-Luc Picard largely for the fact that he has been called upon to basically defend that exact same point on more than one occasion. He has some experience with it.