I disagree.

I have a question by Random silverfish on 2015-11-17 13:25:00 UTC Reply

I have just seen the wiki page of the Universal Translator, and I am not sure about how it works.

Is it something that can be installed into a RC and automatically translate everything said by agents into their mother tongue?

or is it something like a microphone which when the agents hold it and speak, the languages they are saying will be translated to another language?

and how to use it on canon characters during missions? Do agents just point the Universal Translator at them and whatever they are saying will be translated to a language that the agents can understand?

The Universal Translator... by Huinesoron on 2015-11-17 13:41:00 UTC Reply

... is a device from Star Trek. This one. I think they can be clipped to your clothes?

hS

In most badfics, thought, I don't think they're needed. by Sergio Turbo on 2015-11-17 22:52:00 UTC Reply

I mean, HQ's "official" language seems to be English, and so far the Words have always been in either English or a language at least one of Agents involved understood (I did spork one in Italian, but both my Agents knew the language so it worked like a normal mission).

Universal Translators are needed more in cases the Agent himself doesn't speak English.

Uh... no? by Huinesoron on 2015-11-18 08:51:00 UTC Reply

Yes. We have all heard your complaints on the subject. Are you still equipped with the universal translator?

"Yes."

Your partner will need one, I think.

While the shows and books were written and directed in English, in CANON language was not so for forgiving. Westron, Greek, Interworld, and the ever-vague "Federation Standard" were merely some of the languages an agent would encounter. This had been solved with pirated translating spells, and the perfect deus ex machina device—the Universal Translator.

~Some clowns called Jay and Acacia

hS

That's actually pretty much the only part of TOS... by Sergio Turbo on 2015-11-18 22:48:00 UTC Reply

... I don't fully agree with. I admit I had forgotten about that part of TOS, but even after having refreshed my memory there's still something I'm trying to wrap my head around as it feels wrong.

I'll try to explain my point of view here: what makes things happen are the Words (aka the fanfiction text itself), right?

In the Words most dialogue is in the same language as the rest of the text, which is fully acceptable because the reader needs to be able to understand what the characters are saying. In-universe, they speak whatever they are speaking.

Now, if the language conventions apply to Agents it's all fine and dandy. If they don't, and they hear a languange they don't understand... they can just look up the Words, where the dialogue will be in English (or a language they know as otherwise catching SPaG errors wouldn't be possible for them), making the use of a UT, while more comfortable, not necessarily... er... necessary.

I disagree. by Huinesoron on 2015-11-19 10:05:00 UTC Reply

(I mean, obviously I disagree...) A fairly common charge in Middle-earth missions is for a Suvian understanding the language when she really shouldn't. The assumption there is clearly that the Suvian is speaking Westron (and thus, the agents must be hearing and translating it).

Or, to put it another way: canon worlds are based on words, too, right? So, since LotR is written in English, that means that Suvians should understand what everyone's saying, because that's what appears in the book? And yet... they really shouldn't, and neither should PPC agents.

hS

Well, the situation is a bit different. by Sergio Turbo on 2015-11-19 22:53:00 UTC Reply

As I said, in-universe Sue was speaking English in an English speaking world (or her own language in her own country) and everyone in Middle-Earth speaks Westron, thought that is "translated" in English for the viewer/reader.

Then Sue falls in Middle Earth and shouldn't be able to understand anyone there due to language barrier. That's how it is supposed to work, on this I obviously agree with you.

However, the Agents are at least partially meta. They're not part of the fic, as shown by the fact they can read the Words. They are "inside" the fic, alright, but they pretty much share the readers' viewpoint - that's what they're there for after all.

And they witness everything happening as described by the Words, that often tend to act as a literal genie, like green eyes constantly described as "emeralds" actually becoming emeralds. Using that, and then claiming that the dialogue written in English isn't literally heard by the Agents in English feels like a contradiction to me.

And... This is getting very meta. And very confusing.

Except... by Huinesoron on 2015-11-20 10:03:00 UTC Reply

... the emerald eyes example is because it's funny. I can't think of any way of extracting humour from 'yeah, we just hear it in the language it's written', whereas 'halp halp my UT is broked' is something that... hasn't been done, alarmingly enough.

hS

Prbably because a broken UT doesn't mesh well. by Sergio Turbo on 2015-11-20 11:45:00 UTC Reply

I mean, instead of reinforcing the idea of the fic's badness like exploding CADs (Legolas' so OOC the CAD can't handle it anymore!), a broken UT takes the focus off the fic and onto malfunctioning equipment.

To make it mesh well in a mission, we would need to have the fic itself cause the malfunction (argh, this Tenth Walker's using so much Fangirl Japanese the UT shut itself off!), whuch is not only very situational, but easily remedied until charging time (Hey, we can still read the Words, no problem).

Then having to neuralyze or talk down canons with no common language will be fun.

Well... by JulyFlame on 2015-11-21 12:27:00 UTC Reply

I can't dig for the link right now because this is a work/governmental computer, but Trojie and Pads have a fanfic they did a mission for that was in French.

As for the overall thing, the shared canon for everyone is TOS; we don't necessarily have to agree with each other's spinoffs, but we do need to not contradict TOS canon.

Oh, by "other language they know" I mean whole fic cases. (nm) by Sergio Turbo on 2015-11-18 22:50:00 UTC Reply

That was exactly what I'm asking. by Random silverfish on 2015-11-18 01:12:00 UTC Reply

I mean, Universal Translator is more for the use of agents under most cases, especially when they did not come from the same continnum and the official languages there are not English.

I just don't know how it works.

You could also use the Voyager version by [EvilAI]UBEROverlord on 2015-11-17 18:50:00 UTC Reply

Which was built into the Combadge. One could theoretically reverse engineer it to attach to either a console or even theoretically a C-CAD.