Re: An answer about charges.

A question about charges by James Shields on 2015-08-25 18:14:00 UTC Reply

Now, I obviously didn't actually get around to even attempting to get Permission before I had to vanish (though I was considering it the time before the circunstances that caused me to do it happened) and I don't think it would it be very wise to try it right now while few people know me around here, so at this juncture this is merely a theoretical question.

But in the case of something like Adopted, which is the badfic I plan to use for my future attempt, could one use blatant disregard for World One laws as charges?

To clarify, this is a fic where one of the main concerns (along with more obvious Canon Violations, like the pairings of Harry/Hermione, Ron/Luna and Draco/Ginny, not mention the Temporal Paradox created by making Hermione younger than Harry ) is the highly illogical adoption created by the Sparkly Child Sue responsible for this Glaurunging mess.

Harry and Hermione are both eighteen in this story, which would make this Glaurunging whole plot impossible since by British law at the time you would have to be at least twenty-one to adopt, and even then you would to have be either single, married and/or adopting the child of your spouse , and the aforementioned pair is in none of those categories. Instead, they are just two best friends who decided on the spur-of-the-moment (which is so OOC for Hermione that I can't even begin to tell you) to adopt a child together.

And that is the just the first in an endless litany of legal errors. Now, the reason I bring this up is that, to my knowledge, unless Rowling states otherwises, the Muggle world in Harry Potter should be almost exactly the same as World One, which should make things the Children Act 1989 practically canonical.

If I'm wrong with this theory, one could probably just charge based on the impossibility and Illogic of the whole thing, so it would be no great loss.

I'd say that works just fine. by ratbrainbasher on 2015-08-29 03:31:00 UTC Reply

I've heard of people charging for getting the setting wrong in Harry Potter. If it's clearly an Arminian trying to Wright a British settling and completly screwing up, charge for it.

-apologies for any selling mistakes. I'm posting this from my cheap piece of crap phone.

Well, that might be part of it... by James Shields on 2015-08-29 04:25:00 UTC Reply

I mean, yeah getting the setting (in this case Muggle Britain) is certainly part of the problem. I think if one is going to write a story about something related to the real world, in this case an adoption process in the UK, then they should do the appropriate research. Which is why I'm also going to charge for ' Failure to do the research'.

An answer about charges. by the Irish Samurai on 2015-08-27 23:01:00 UTC Reply

Stuff like that could easily be charged for under things like 'failure to do the research' and 'sending people OOC'.

As for actually charging them breaking laws, well, agents don't have any real authority to do so, but that doesn't have to stop them. In my most recent mission my agents did specifically note the laws the Sue had broken, after reading all the official charges.

And while the major charges are supposed to be about objectively bad writing, charge lists also frequently include unofficial charges like 'annoying PPC Agents'. If one of your characters is a stickler for the rules, I could certainly see them adding in some unofficial charges based on laws broken.

- Irish

Re: An answer about charges. by James Shields on 2015-08-28 04:15:00 UTC Reply

Well, i did say it would probably be no great loss if it couldn't be done like I thought. 'Failure to do the research' and 'making characters OC' sound about right. I mean, would someone like Hermione, who is clever, knowledgeable and resourseful and prefers to only break rules when absolutely necessary, really just jump in head-first into something as life-changing as an adoption without apparently doing any research at all? Really!?

Nice to know that there is a precedent for that sort of thing. Mind if I ask what mission that is?

Thing is, like I previously said, these problems are one of my main concerns with the badfic. So I would probably have to find a way to make major charges about it. The above charges plus some about the impossible and Illogical plot would mostly cover it, but I still feel something would be lacking in that regard. I would still have the charges for more obvious and Canon Breaking bad writing, such as everything related to Sue herself, non canonical pairings, the aforementioned Temporal Offense and the other bad OCs in the story to make for it though.

Then we have instances where the bad writing manages to Break Canon AND cause issues related to said laws at the same time. In one particularly Glaurunging bad case, Harry and Hermione have apparently had their educational records forged to show that they attended a " School for the Gifted". That may not actually break the Statute of Secrecy, but it seems pretty damn close to me, as well being incredibly stupid. I mean, what the Glaurung did they do about grades and certificates? They can't exactly list the results for O.W.L.s, you know.

Re: An answer about charges. by the Irish Samurai on 2015-08-28 15:36:00 UTC Reply

Yup, that's one of the great things about the PPC setting: if you look long and hard enough through the archives, you can probably find precedent for anything (of course, that could also be a bad thing, and the more you look the more likely you are to find contradictions too).

The mission I was referring to is here, although I bet there are other examples too.

As for the faked certificates, um... maybe they had access to some Doctor Who psychic paper?

- Irish

Thank you! by James Shields on 2015-08-28 18:59:00 UTC Reply

I don't actually know that continuum at all, but it seems like a nice mission. That part about pseudo-charging for the crimes is really interesting.

But now that I have thought more about it, something like that wouldn't work in this case. Since the Sue in question is the child being adopted herself, she is not the one who is violating the relevant laws. Maybe I could charge for ' altering reality and manipulating canons and OCs alike to blatantly ignore even the existence of the relevant laws'?

That sounds like a major enough charge to me. After all, it is really bad writing. By disregarding such matters, the Suethor can both make things too easy on the legal process side, losing some good oppurtunity for actual well-written drama, AND also use it to heavy handingly apply the Rule of Drama. Just see how easily the Sue got adopted by Harry and Hermione (seriously, adopting a child from the Nursery is probably harder than adopting a child in this fic) and later on, how also easily she was taken away by her Obviously Evil Birth Mother. Who then beats up and treats her as a slave, of course.

You know you got it real bad with a badfic when something like that explanation could actually make more sense than what actually happens in it.

No problem. by the Irish Samurai on 2015-09-01 13:56:00 UTC Reply

As for the Sue not being the one to actually break the laws in this case, well, we have a tendency to blame the Sue for any bad writing that happens in their presence, so if you wanted to transfer that to laws/crimes you could always go with 'conspiracy to commit...' type charges. Basically treat the Sue as the mastermind/ringleader behind any law-breaking the OOC canons do.

- Irish

That seems like a good idea. by James Shields on 2015-09-01 19:15:00 UTC Reply

That was mostly what I was going for with charge I suggested in my last post. But according to that, since Harry and Hermione wouldn't be actually legally allowed to have the Sue in their custody, I guess could I probably charge for 'conspiracy to commit kidnapping'. And for the all the laws and procedures broke by the CPS OCs. I swear, every since adult in this thing, canons and OCs, seen to be affect by her. The only salvageable characters seem to be the two child bit ones in first chapter (though one of them does fall in the category of unreasonably hating the Sue) and maybe the baby Harry and Hermione have in the last chapter.

I will probably get to actually use pseudo-charges for broken laws with Sue's Birth Mother though, for also effectively kidnapping a child and then neglecting and abusing her.

And I will probably have to charge for having Speshul Powers, since this fic somehow make Hermione of all Glaurunging people to think that to the Sue is magical without a shred of evidence to support that conclusion (She REALLY has being with the Moron Beam in this Suefic), followed by Harry saying, and I quote " ... I mean, it probably explains why she her parents didn't want her. She may have had a rare accidental magic the day she was born ... She's probably a Muggleborn, like you are, and her parents didn't know what to do with her." SERIOUSLY!? Isn't it Canon that you have your first bit of accidental magic when you are what, six years old or so?

Then there is her terrible past: " It all started with Georgiana. She was the first one here. She's been here since she was born. Her birth parents left her here the day she was born. Didn't want her. Didn't care for her..."

" We had countless parents ... come here. And not even one of them has considered Georgiana. They always pass her up and went for the next child. It's like she's not even here... "

It's central to what's wrong with the fic. Charge for it. (nm) by Scapegrace on 2015-08-25 19:09:00 UTC Reply

Yeah, that is what I figured too by James Shields on 2015-08-27 17:07:00 UTC Reply

Though maybe this matter would probably be better adressed when I can actually write the mission and this is no longer
just a theoretical question anymore.

I will probably need to discuss this in more detail when I eventually list this as the target badfic anyway, so let's postpone this discussion for now.