We could

Subject: We could
Author: Thoth
Posted on: 2018-08-06 15:32:00 UTC

But then it becomes Interactive Fiction rather than a Visual Novel. Different genre, ever so slightly. Although the real differences manifest themselves more in Parser IF than in Twine stuff, which derives more from CYOA.

Not that I'm looking down on IF. Some of my favorite interactive experiences are traditional IF—Midnight. Swordfight, Three-Card Trick, I even have a soft spot for The Lurking Horror and that's a classic Infocom game—so lots of puzzles that I needed a guide to solve. (Although in retrospect a lot of them did make sense).

I'm not looking down on Twine either. Birdland, Belle Park, Youth Detective, and KNOWN UNKNOWNS ade a brilliant trilogy, and I loved 16 Ways to Kill a Vampire at MacDonalds.

If anything, I'd say the majority of visual novels are poorly designed and frustrating. A lot of them tend to have a nasty problem that if you went wrong it's hard to know where and you just have to play it all over from the start. Fate is actually great in this respect, because the majority of failures are immediate, and those that aren't make it kinda obvious what you messed up (typically, not focusing enough on one character and thus not getting them to like you enough for yhem to help you at a crucial moment). Additionally, many VNs offer the ability to fast-forward or skip stuff you've already seen, to mitigate the fact that you'll probably be replaying them a lot. This makes it way less painful.

But I think it's telling that my favorite VN is a babby's-first VN with a single path forward that's actually a mashup of a VN and a point 'n click. That being Phoenix Wright. Which, by the way, you should all play. It's excellent and a lot of fun and very well-written.

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If a PPC game was ever made... by SkaterTheDJWolf on 2018-08-03 23:17:00 UTC Reply

...what do you think would be the final boss would be?

My money's on this abomination: https://www.deviantart.com/r3troguy/art/Midnight-the-hedgehog-my-OC-277239611

Wow, this was kind of a joke thread about a Sonic OC. by SkaterTheDJWolf on 2018-08-10 19:19:00 UTC Reply

But since the discussion that sparked from it is interesting... I'll roll with it.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to playing a PPC game.

Good things often come out of joke threads. (nm) by 61516 on 2018-08-11 01:47:00 UTC Reply

I'm also thinking of making a game with a new twist. by twistedwindowpane on 2018-08-06 00:32:00 UTC Reply

The idea behind it would be that the PPC Boarders, for one reason or another, must write their own avatars into battle alongside the agents, in order to complete a variety of adventures. Your agents could know it's you via something that affects the fact that normally agents don't know that the Board exists, or you could be keeping up a disguise the whole time so that they don't find out (which would be an interesting subplot.)

The game would be a first person RPG (a la Wolfenstein RPG and Doom RPG) that has multiple "campaigns" - different adventures centered around different protagonists and different threats. For instance, I have planned three of my own campaigns where your mission is to stop a rabid badficcer who is attempting to convert the denizens of every multiverse into Suvians of her own design, as well as put an end to both the fictional PPC... and the real one. Those three campaigns, being mostly centered around me, would include my agents and future Badfic Games personas that I create, but if you want to have your own campaign with your own characters, that's totally fine (and probably necessary - I don't want to end up having a game about a group I'm in and showcase nothing but my own contributions.) You could even have a campaign centered around a particular PPC character, supported by the characters they're close to and taking on whatever is after them. The possibilities are numerous.

So, answering your question in this case, there would be a lot of final bosses. And it would be great that way.

-Twistey

Good idea, seems like a multi-person job though. (nm) by 61516 on 2018-08-06 00:48:00 UTC Reply

Yeah. Luckily, I have a good coder friend coming aBoard soon by twistedwindowpane on 2018-08-06 20:59:00 UTC Reply

He's a huge iD Software fan, even makes mods for Wolfenstein 3D and DOOM, so (being familiar with both iD Software's RPG installments in those two franchises and mods that emulate a first person RPG) he'd probably help me figure out how to code a first person RPG.

-Twistey

What sort of 1st Person RPG are we talking? by Thoth on 2018-08-06 23:58:00 UTC Reply

Like, Ultima 1? Wizardry? Or like TES?

Also, what engine? Also also, is your friend secretly me? :-P

Just kidding. I have never made a mod for an id game, as much as I love them.

I don't know exactly how it's going to work. by twistedwindowpane on 2018-08-08 23:35:00 UTC Reply

I haven't seen any first person RPGs other than the two iD ones yet, so I'll have to think about it.

As for the engine, Unity seems like it'd be easier to learn. I can't make 3D models for the life of me, but I can make decent art, so it'll end up being 2.5D (a la iD games), and I already know full well that 2.5D games can be made in Unity.

No, my friend is a Scratch user called LegoGuy111, or Sigma64 as he says he'll go by when he joins the Board. He's a huge iD geek, and one of the only reasons why I continue to secretly use small parts of Scratch even after I officially left. Here's his page: https://scratch.mit.edu/users/LegoGuy111/

-Twistey

Neat! by Thoth on 2018-08-09 03:42:00 UTC Reply

I, being a Total Lunatic, would suggest building the game in the Doom Engine.

No, really. GZDoom has rather good scripting tools for twisting the game into whatever, support for modern file formats n' stuff, and a surprising number of good resources to get started with. There's even at least one mod I know of that has RPG-style dialogue trees! ...But I'm not linking that mod, because it's so NSFW it's not even funny.

Probably not better than Unity, though.

Alrighty! I'll consider it! by twistedwindowpane on 2018-08-09 19:33:00 UTC Reply

And that may be what my coder friend is most familiar with anyway. I'll have to bring up the idea to him when he joins.

-Twistey

Nice (nm) by 61516 on 2018-08-06 21:50:00 UTC Reply

I'll also have the campaign leaders make their own art (nm) by twistedwindowpane on 2018-08-08 23:35:00 UTC Reply

There was a PPC game. Here's proof: by 61516 on 2018-08-03 23:49:00 UTC Reply

http://ppc.wikia.com/wiki/PPCComputerGame

Still is, even. :) by Huinesoron on 2018-08-04 17:55:00 UTC Reply

I can't guarantee it'll run, but the files are still there.

I actually got halfway through making a sequel to that; it was much better. And also much more complicated. Which is why it was abandoned.

You met Leonard of Quirm, it was a whole thing.

hS

You could do an HD reboot of the first one. by twistedwindowpane on 2018-08-05 23:56:00 UTC Reply

I noticed that the graphics as shown in the screenshots weren't the best they could be, but it does seem like a very cool game.

(Lol, also, this next Badfic Games, I'm going to add a crappypasta about the PPC game. Brace yourself, hS, brace yourself.)

-Twistey

Hey, those were top-of-the-line graphics! by Huinesoron on 2018-08-06 16:59:00 UTC Reply

Did you not see the pixels? So many pixels, you wouldn't believe. :D

The sequel actually featured - be prepared to be amazed - 3D graphics!!! ... by which I mean the grey squares making the walls had bevels on them. XD Look, I never claimed to be very good at this... just persistent.

(More seriously, I wouldn't know where to start; the original game was made with a bit of software that definitely doesn't work any more, and anything beyond that is probably beyond me.)

(Also I should probably finish up all the other stuff I've got to do before I start yet another new project. I still haven't written up a page on Gallifreyan Scrabble...)

hS

*throws hands up* Hey, I didn't mean to offend you! by twistedwindowpane on 2018-08-06 21:01:00 UTC Reply

My intent was, in fact, to offer my help if ever an HD reboot was undertaken. I have some experience with making pixel art using Piskel (which makes it easier to have walk cycles), so I'd definitely be willing to pitch in. :D

-Twistey

Should we do a PPC dating sim some future September? (nm) by Thoth on 2018-08-04 00:03:00 UTC Reply

Technically there's one of those too! by Huinesoron on 2018-08-04 20:15:00 UTC Reply

... sort of.

Shipverse: Inhibitions is a Javascript kludge wherein you are tasked with initiating romance between a whole range of agents. Admittedly, they may not want to have romance initiated at them - but what difference does that make*?

And yes, if you play long enough, it does have unlockable features. Some of which even work!

hS

*Quite a lot, in real life. But this is gaming!
That seems hard to me, but I'm bad at coding. (nm) by 61516 on 2018-08-04 01:25:00 UTC Reply

Everything is hard. by Thoth on 2018-08-04 02:16:00 UTC Reply

Thankfully, Ren'py (https://www.renpy.org) and similar engines can do a lot of the work for you.

Mind, I'm a lazy talentless hack who can't draw, so it'd still be hard for me.

Could we do it in Twine or such? by Larfen J. Stocke, esq. on 2018-08-06 13:35:00 UTC Reply

Make it in the form of one of them choose your own story fella thingoes?

I wasn't sure if Twine was easy to use but their own website says 'You don't need to write any code to create a simple story with Twine' and by Jove that's more than enough encouragement for me!

I suppose that doesn't really solve the 'visual' aspect of the visual novel, does it?

Perhaps if we just made the prose really purple. . .

We could by Thoth on 2018-08-06 15:32:00 UTC Reply

But then it becomes Interactive Fiction rather than a Visual Novel. Different genre, ever so slightly. Although the real differences manifest themselves more in Parser IF than in Twine stuff, which derives more from CYOA.

Not that I'm looking down on IF. Some of my favorite interactive experiences are traditional IF—Midnight. Swordfight, Three-Card Trick, I even have a soft spot for The Lurking Horror and that's a classic Infocom game—so lots of puzzles that I needed a guide to solve. (Although in retrospect a lot of them did make sense).

I'm not looking down on Twine either. Birdland, Belle Park, Youth Detective, and KNOWN UNKNOWNS ade a brilliant trilogy, and I loved 16 Ways to Kill a Vampire at MacDonalds.

If anything, I'd say the majority of visual novels are poorly designed and frustrating. A lot of them tend to have a nasty problem that if you went wrong it's hard to know where and you just have to play it all over from the start. Fate is actually great in this respect, because the majority of failures are immediate, and those that aren't make it kinda obvious what you messed up (typically, not focusing enough on one character and thus not getting them to like you enough for yhem to help you at a crucial moment). Additionally, many VNs offer the ability to fast-forward or skip stuff you've already seen, to mitigate the fact that you'll probably be replaying them a lot. This makes it way less painful.

But I think it's telling that my favorite VN is a babby's-first VN with a single path forward that's actually a mashup of a VN and a point 'n click. That being Phoenix Wright. Which, by the way, you should all play. It's excellent and a lot of fun and very well-written.

I've heard of that, but I can't draw either. (nm) by 61516 on 2018-08-04 03:43:00 UTC Reply