Agreed.

Subject: Agreed.
Author: Neshomeh
Posted on: 2013-07-02 16:01:00 UTC

I think you covered just about everything I was thinking, including the typo. {= )

When I was writing my initial comments, I was trying to think of some way to point people directly at the "Help and FAQs" tab at the top of the wiki, which contains all the really instructive articles, including Permission. I worry that it isn't particularly easy to spot or identify as part of PPC Wiki specifically and not general Wikia stuff. Unfortunately, I can't think of a good way to do that.

At some point, I may try to mess with the wiki's CSS and see if I can't at least make those tabs more eye-catching without changing the color of all the other links. I fixed the subheader bolding issue that way, I don't see why I couldn't fix this if I put my mind to it.

I also want to thoroughly index TOS on The Lost Tales someday, to help with the "being familiar" thing. That at least wouldn't be too difficult from a coding perspective, just a lot of tediousness. And I love tediousness. ^_^

~Neshomeh

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IRC login problem? by Miah on 2013-06-30 02:05:00 UTC Reply

Anyone else having a problem getting the IRC to load? I don't know the new host room to log in directly through Mibbit, so it's through the link at the top of this page.

H'm. by VixenMage on 2013-06-30 02:27:00 UTC Reply

I dunno what the issue with the link is, but the network is now irc.sorcery.net rather than the old one; the room is still #PPC .

Been meaning to ask... by Huinesoron on 2013-06-30 08:40:00 UTC Reply

... is the Board-link still the best, or does it need updating? And is there a simple, short bit of extra description that could be added to tell people how to get there without the link?

hS

Alas. by VixenMage on 2013-07-01 03:50:00 UTC Reply

I'm actually very much the wrong person to ask - I use mibbit directly, as a rule, since the layout of the 'Board link throws me off, and I don't know much about the mechanics of IRC. A brief informal survey reveals that fifteen out of twenty attempts to connect are successful. If an attempt to connect goes to "Looking up hostname" and no further, my recommendation is to either close or refresh the tab and try again.

As for getting there without the link, I have been informed, repeatedly and at length, that Mibbit is an awful tool, and I should be using Chatzilla, but pah. Mibbit is easy and I know how to do it. Perhaps someone who is more knowledgeable than I can explain another method - this is the one I know:

1) go to http://chat.mibbit.com/
2) click "Server," and type in "irc.sorcery.net" for the blank that appears... OR... select "Sorcery [webirc]" out of the drop-down menu.
3) Type in your username, or an appropriate abbreviation thereof, for the "Nick" blank, and #PPC for the "Channel" blank.
4) Click "Connect." If the "Sorcery" tab appears, but nothing happens after that, click on it - if the message is "looking up your hostname," exit the tab and click "Connect" again. Repeat until it works - if it really isn't working at all, there might be an issue that requires you to refresh the page.

Considering. by Huinesoron on 2013-07-01 13:34:00 UTC Reply

Would adding a parenthetical along the lines of '(Find us at #PPC on irc.sorcery.net!)' be useful in the Board header? Does that even make sense, or have I wildly misunderstood something?

Also, what does anyone think of the current tagline ('The PPC IRC is the place for idle conversation. If it's just a few people talking, it's best to take it to the IRC.')? That specific phrasing was a five-second job created at a time when people were frequently being told to 'take it to the IRC'. Is it the best way of putting it, or can it be improved?

(Actually, all three of those taglines sound a bit too aggressive for my taste... any thoughts from anyone?)

hS

Channel and server info by Tomash on 2013-07-01 14:32:00 UTC Reply

I think that adding "(#PPC on irc.sorcery.net)" either at the end of the PPC IRC link or immediately after it is a good idea. That information would help people familiar with IRC get their clients working.

How does that look? by Huinesoron on 2013-07-01 14:43:00 UTC Reply

And do you have any comments on the phrasing of the tagline? Since I don't go into the IRC, I was probably the least-qualified person to write it...

hS

That looks fine. by Tomash on 2013-07-01 15:04:00 UTC Reply

As to the rest of the tagline, the only thing I can think of right now is that it might be worth mentioning somehow that the IRC is more real-time than the Board.

Rewriting the Board header. by Huinesoron on 2013-07-01 15:40:00 UTC Reply

I'm going to take a first stab at rewording the header. Comments from anyone and everyone are very much welcome.

PPC Posting Board

Welcome, fans of the Protectors of the Plot Continuum and supporters of the Canon Protection Initiative! If you've got a story to plug, an opinion to share, or a discussion you want to join in, this is the place!

Before you get stuck in, there are some important links you should know about. Being familiar with these three will save you a lot of hassle!

-The PPC Constitution is Da Rules for our community. If you're interacting with other PPCers, follow the Constitution! Read this first, and read it often.
-Our shiny Wiki will answer many of your questions. Check before asking, as the first thing anyone will do is direct you here.
-The PPC IRC (#PPC on irc.sorcery.net) is the place for real-time conversation. Whether you want to continue a long discussion from the Board or just hang out and chat, the IRC is the place to be.

Specific questions from me:

1/ Are those the links we need up? I think those three are the important ones - the ones Boarders need regular access to (and when did you last read the Constitution? Go read it, it's awesome!) - but is there a strong feeling we need something else?

2/ Is the phrasing okay, in general? More specifically, how are the link taglines, and does the preamble need to be longer?

For additional reference, this is the very first version of the header, which all further versions have been based on:

PPC Posting Board

Welcome, Assassins and all other supporters of the Continuum Protection Initiative! Here is the place to report new offenders in need of smiting, or celebrate the acquisition of yet another target. (Or just to natter on...we're not picky!)

If you are a newcomer to this board, (or need to refresh your memory) please visit the PPC Board Constitution first. Though phrased politely, this is a command, not a request. Thank you!

And this is the 'expanded' version from before the rewrite:

PPC Posting Board

Welcome, Assassins and all other supporters of the Continuum Protection Initiative! Here is the place to report new offenders in need of smiting, or celebrate the acquisition of yet another target. (Or just to natter on...we're not picky!)

If you are a newcomer to this board, (or need to refresh your memory) please visit the PPC Board Constitution first. Though phrased politely, this is a command, not a request. Thank you!

If you're looking for information on the PPC, try our shiny Wiki, or if you feel like bothering people in real time, we have an IRC channel. (The IRC has moved to Sorcery.net, but is otherwise the same.)

hS

Comments by Neshomeh on 2013-07-01 17:32:00 UTC Reply

In answer to your questions:

- I think there was a discussion about including some other links, but I don't remember which ones. ._. Maybe the Permission article? Maybe the Original Series? Actually, a TOS link sounds like a really good idea to me. Maybe something like "- The Original Series is what started it all. This is the PPC's foundation, so be familiar with it!"

- The preamble seems fine length-wise, but I don't know what "before you get stuck in" means.

- The Constitution doesn't just apply when interacting with other PPCers—it applies anytime you're acting/speaking in the name of the PPC, with anyone, anywhere. I think just the first and last lines would suffice there. IMO, it's appropriate to be forceful about this.

- "Our shiny PPC Wiki" would fit better with the other items, which both give the full name of the things in question.

- This is probably just me, but I despise the use of "as" in the sense of "because" (and "because" would work just fine in this case). I also wonder if it couldn't be phrased more clearly overall... maybe something like "Please check before asking! We like it when people do the research." This has the advantage of being more positive and friendly while also conveying that we don't like it when people can't be arsed to take two minutes to look things up for themselves. {= )

That's all I've got for now.

~Neshomeh

Okay, so this: by Huinesoron on 2013-07-02 10:06:00 UTC Reply

PPC Posting Board

Welcome, fans of the Protectors of the Plot Continuum and supporters of the Canon Protection Initiative! If you've got a story to plug, an opinion to share, or a discussion you want to join in, this is the place!

Before you join the fun, there are some important links you should know about. Being familiar with these will save you a lot of hassle!

-The PPC Constitution is Da Rules for our community. Read this first, read it often, and follow it.
-The Original Series is what started it all: the missions of the famous Assassims Jay and Acacia. This is the PPC's foundation, so be familiar with it!
-Our shiny PPC Wiki will answer many of your questions. Check before asking! We like it when people do the research.
-The PPC IRC (#PPC on irc.sorcery.net) is the place for real-time conversation. Whether you want to continue a long discussion from the Board or just hang out and chat, the IRC is the place to be.

Any more thoughts from anyone? I'm wondering about the specific text on the TOS link; do we want to insist that people who hate fantasy read all 20-plus J&A missions?

As to a link to the Permission article, I'm thinking no. These are links that everyone on the Board will probably need regularly - the Constitution (which you should reread frequently - I just did), TOS (which is both worth the reread, and a good way to re-ground yourself in the quirky nature of the PPC), the Wiki (which is our primary research tool), and the IRC (where people talk all the time). The Permission article, in contrast, is something you look at a couple of times before you ask for Permission, and probably never again.

hS

Hey hS by the Irish Samurai on 2013-07-11 19:10:00 UTC Reply

I'm assuming that it was you that changed the Board header (something that I've only noticed today), seeing as it was you that started talking about it, and that looks like the wording you suggested. The only problem is, it's used all of your wording - including the typo in 'Assassins'.

I am not as stupid as I look. by Huinesoron on 2013-07-11 21:29:00 UTC Reply

Really. I promise. Ehehe.

(I only did it today, so...)

hS, goin' a'change it...

Well I'm not as look as I stupid. by the Irish Samurai on 2013-07-13 15:50:00 UTC Reply

And that's a true fact!

Noticed one little thing, although the typo is fixed and the header looks fine on my laptop, for some reason there's no line break for the Original Series line when I view it on my phone - it just carries on from the Constitution line.

Just wondering if the HTML might be slightly wonky?

Re: Okay, so this: by the Irish Samurai on 2013-07-02 13:56:00 UTC Reply

Looks good to me, and I think that the instruction to 'be familiar' with the Original Series carries the right balance.

I don't think that we should be insisting that people that aren't interested in fantasy have to read all of it, and similarly doing so probably isn't the best thing to do for someone that's intending on putting their Agents in DBS, DOGA, DIC, etc. - there are a lot more Departments around now than there were in the beginning. At the same time, reading at least a few of Jay and Acacia's missions has got to be the best way for new people to get a feel for the style and tone of the PPC.

I would think that the essential PPCness of it can be picked up from reading just a few of the missions, and any other specific questions someone might have could be answered just as easily from the wiki, by reading missions set in continua they enjoy, or those dealing with the particular type of badfic they want to spork.

I also think that it might be worth making the Permission stuff a bit more high profile - I'm not necessarily saying that I think it needs to go in the header, but I can't think of any other way of doing that off hand. Your latest statistical analysis bit showed that Permission seems to be harder to get than it's meant to be (only about 1/3 managed it on the first attempt, which is a pretty high failure rate for something that's 'not that hard'). Maybe making it a bit more obvious, such as having links to the Permission article in the header, would help prospective mission-writers get approval.

Also, just in case you hadn't noticed it yourself, it would appear that an 'm' has somehow snuck in and replaced the 'n' from 'Assassins' when you referred to Jay and Acacia.

Agreed. by Neshomeh on 2013-07-02 16:01:00 UTC Reply

I think you covered just about everything I was thinking, including the typo. {= )

When I was writing my initial comments, I was trying to think of some way to point people directly at the "Help and FAQs" tab at the top of the wiki, which contains all the really instructive articles, including Permission. I worry that it isn't particularly easy to spot or identify as part of PPC Wiki specifically and not general Wikia stuff. Unfortunately, I can't think of a good way to do that.

At some point, I may try to mess with the wiki's CSS and see if I can't at least make those tabs more eye-catching without changing the color of all the other links. I fixed the subheader bolding issue that way, I don't see why I couldn't fix this if I put my mind to it.

I also want to thoroughly index TOS on The Lost Tales someday, to help with the "being familiar" thing. That at least wouldn't be too difficult from a coding perspective, just a lot of tediousness. And I love tediousness. ^_^

~Neshomeh

Out of curiosity... by the Irish Samurai on 2013-07-02 18:37:00 UTC Reply

what do you mean by 'thoroughly indexing' the Original Series?

If you're talking about marking up the first (and other noteworthy) appearances of characters, equipment, etc. so that it can be used as a quick reference as well as being a good read, then I already have some notes along those lines that might be useful.

Yep, basically. by Neshomeh on 2013-07-02 19:11:00 UTC Reply

My idea is to code the series so that each paragraph of each mission can be linked to directly. It might go something like this:

RB = "Rambling Band" | Ch = "Chosen" | LF = "Lady of the Fellowship"

~~## = I'm not counting that many paragraphs right now~~

CAD: see Canon Analysis Device, Character Analysis Device

Canon Analysis Device: RB par. 10, 22-23, 29-30; Ch par. ##; LF par. ##, ##
character rupture: RB par. 30

Character Analysis Device: RB par. 9, 17-21; LF par. ##

Elrond: RB par. 37; LF par. ##
resisting Suefluence: RB par. 37; LF par. ##

With links, obviously, and a heck of a lot more stuff...

So, in short, yes, any notes you have would be awesome for whenever I actually start working on this. {= ) There are several things ahead of it in the Stuff I Need To Work On queue, though.

~Neshomeh

OK. by the Irish Samurai on 2013-07-07 10:08:00 UTC Reply

That's actually a lot more detail than I've gone into so far, but this sounds like an interesting and useful project.

I'd have no idea how to go about doing that coding, but if you'd like I could go through TOS again and make some detailed notes for you.

Looks like there are a few types of Things of Interest: reoccurring characters, equipment, PPC procedures (such as charge lists, disguising yourself as something canon, etc.), phenomenon (being invisible to canons, suefluence, warping of the Word World, etc.), other PPC specific stuff (like the names of departments) and basically anything else that seems like it might be noteworthy in some way. It also looks like you're after any-and-all occurrences of the various Things of Interest, with additional notes if they're doing anything particularly special. Would that be right?

Oops on the typo. ;) by Huinesoron on 2013-07-02 16:11:00 UTC Reply

As to the Permission link... would it potentially be a good idea to add a sentence along the lines of 'If you've got a question about this place, it might be Frequently Asked! Check out our FAQs: [On Permission], [For Newbies], [Other Stuff], [Etcetera], [You Get The Point]'? That could make them accessible from here without overly stressing the Permission aspect (since, as I've said elsewhere, writing missions is not the be-all and end-all of being in the PPC).

hS, throwing ideas

PS: You, Nesh? Fond of repetitive tasks to fix problems that few people even noticed to begin with? Never! ;)

That sounds like a good way of doing it to me by the Irish Samurai on 2013-07-02 18:09:00 UTC Reply

In fact, it sounds like a much more sensible version of what I was going to suggest, which was to have a hub page on the wiki that just contained links to (and descriptions of) the various Guides and How-Tos, with the header modified along the lines of 'Our shiny Wiki... blah blah blah... if it's your first visit we recommend you start [here|hub].

But yeah, actually having them listed out straight away would probably make it more accessible, as well as cutting down on the inherent redundancy of my plan.

I agree that getting Permission isn't / shouldn't be a factor in being part of the PPC community, but it is rather an important factor in actually writing PPC missions, and I don't think an emphasis of that aspect would hurt.

There already is a hub of sorts, actually. by Neshomeh on 2013-07-02 18:37:00 UTC Reply

It's the wiki's main page, and it has most if not all those links in a few handy bulleted lists. That only helps if people actually scroll down the page far enough to see them, though, and I'm very much against the idea of changing the main page to go "NEW PEOPLE READ THESE: *[link] *[link] *[link] *[etc.]" with no introduction or anything. People other than prospective members land there, too.

So, yeah, having a straight list of that stuff linked from the very top of the Board, though inelegant, would not make me sad. The more visible and accessible they are, the better.

~Neshomeh

Re: IRC login problem? by Miah on 2013-06-30 02:16:00 UTC Reply

I finally found the info for logging in directly, but the link at the top of the Board still isn't working.