Subject: *pops in to agree with Nesh*
Author:
Posted on: 2018-05-24 23:56:00 UTC
This, especially:
"Her incursions have been disruptive and aggravating, yes, but neither she nor any other individual has the power to ruin the PPC unless we give it to them by losing our cool over them."
This is something we should all keep in mind in general, IMO.
So, I could explain the reasons for this, but honestly they're kinda weird and stem from a lot of my own issues. As an example, I was blaming her because she has a lot of problems I also have and I'm kinda bitter both at the Board for starting a witch hunt every single time she tries to come back even to apologize, and at her for Weird Issues reasons plus her being really annoying because I gave her attention one (1) time and she decided I was the key to getting back into the PPC or something.
But anyway, I'm not gonna go into more detail aside from this basic "why did you even do that?", because it's neither a justification nor an excuse. I would like to say I'm sorry for this, and am trying my best to get better and never do anything like this again. I do understand this is still unacceptable behavior, though, and as such I will leave the PPC.
...just because you have some similarities with someone doesn't mean you should have to do the same things and/or be treated the same. I think there's at least one similarity with Zdimensia for each of us, maybe more, and look at how different we act from her.
It's just like any other fallacy of association to feel close to ZD because you have similarities - a fallacy. And man, that fallacy pops up a lot. To the point where it's even become a trope in fiction (hero/villain tells villain/hero that they're "not so different", anybody?) So always remember who you are and who you're not, and that your choices and actions are your own.
-Twistey
Someone purporting to be Zdimensia (variously 'z', 'zd', 'f', and 'you know who') has over the last few hours repeatedly posted in such a way as to cause the front page of the Board to replace itself with a gif and the text 'This is for ruining my life. -zd'. These posts were deleted on sight by the Nameless Admin, along with one from the same source saying 'I'm never going to go away.' The Board has also been secured against such attempts; the last three or four had no effect.
palindromordnilap is now claiming to have been the one making those posts, and by implication the ones earlier this month which attempted the same thing.
I've largely stayed out of this entire fiasco ever since the ban was enforced, but from what I've been seeing, mistakes have been made by literally everyone involved in all of this, including me - both my instance of yelling at her when we were trying to give her a chance, and doing nothing to make things better when she escalated the situation. She hasn't went after me since the ban, thank the gods, but the fact that she's resorting to ban evasion in a bid to try and bribe, bargain, and even threaten her way back to us is just sickening. I don't know how soon it'll be before she gives up if at all, but nothing anybody is doing now is solving anything, not leaving, not IP-hopping, not even ignoring her in the hopes that she'll stop being a nuisance.
What's even more upsetting, however, is that I'm not sure if ANYTHING can be done. The worst-case scenario may be that we're going to get backed into a lose-lose situation - either having to deal with her constant harrassment of us as a community or attempting to do something about her, being called out by some of our own members as bullying her, and losing the respect that these members have in us (which seems to be the case in this specific occasion). Here again, my lack of involvement is more of a curse than a blessing, since I literally, honestly have no clue how to go about all of this and I don't think I ever did. Is her behavior unique among the people who have proven troublesome to us over the years? I don't have answers to that, either, although perhaps people who've been around to see them come and go may know better than I do. But what I can say is that nothing we're doing now, not leaving, not chasing out other people for even indirect involvement in this disaster, not even singling her out when it seems as though her behavior is exceptional among other people we've had to ban in the past, is getting us anywhere quickly, let alone towards a solution to the issue of people taking umbrage at our measures because they think they're in the right.
I suppose I too am feeling bitter about this fiasco, but I've been through enough to actively discourage potentially toxic behavior of mine. It could just be that things have been consistently disastrous for this community ever since last year's mob-and-dox incident, and everything that happened then and since left a sour aftertaste that hasn't gone away completely. I understand that we're all striving to improve, but these improvements haven't been as quick or effective as I feel they could be.
With respect to this specific incident, though, I have and legitimately can find nothing else to say other than that towards both this community AND zdimensia - but especially her, if what she's doing really is tearing people away from the PPC - I am very disappointed. So, so very disappointed.
I don't know if you're trying to play Devil's Advocate or what, but zdimensia was banned with due process, not once, but twice. She was given multiple chances, long past what she should have been owed, to change her behavior and apologize.
What we're doing now, responding to her ban evasion, is nothing like the incident you're referring to.
So trying to guilt trip the entire community for zdimensia's actions is not cool.
No offence Ix, but right now I'm not sure if you're helping the process that I believe we need to go through in revelation of this. This is no longer just about Bram. It's now bigger than just one person...
In my original response, I stated that it was zdimensia who was primarily in the wrong; perhaps I should've made that clearer from the get-go, and I apologize for wording it as though I was friendly-firing at the rest of you as well for banning her, which was not intended at all. I do know that she was banned multiple times as well, but the problem is that I have yet to see her give up and leave us alone even WITH that in place. She's ban-evaded, harassed people in private, and now incited someone's own poor behavior which has led to HIS leaving the PPC as well.
What I'm most concerned about isn't that we banned her in the first place - a move which I whole-heartedly supported, mind - but that we're not doing enough to perma-lock her out of the community, since it seems as though she could still cause trouble even WITH these bans in place. I've seen other communities I know of simply ban or block toxic people, only for these people to attempt to bribe or even attack community members in private in direct response to it. Hell, a certain disaster over half a decade ago involving me and a DeviantArt group I was once a part of featured this exact thing, and it was only after I stopped being toxic of my own volition and after the group got taken down and remodeled under another URL (for multiple reasons, possibly including me) that the whole thing finally died down. Chances are we might be on the same impasse, but with someone with an even worse grudge against the community that kicked her out, as well as the potential to simply use different IPs each time she tries to come back.
I have no ill towards the PPC for how you guys handled this, and I still applaud you for handling it when you did. What we really need, however, is a reliable means of keeping those we've banned from trying to force their way back in, which factors in ban evasion, private harassment, and whatever else these people could and have attempted. Perhaps this community is working on exactly that - I'm not involved in community administration enough to know for sure, and some clarification on this would be helpful. But for me personally, it can't come soon enough, especially in the face of such an extreme case as this one.
Apparently I missed Drama while I was at work today. Whee.
Looking at the aftermath, here's why I'm not worried about it:
1. It sounds like what they did was certainly shocking and unpleasant, but pretty impersonal. No one was directly targeted, and no one's safety is threatened.
2. The Nameless Admin handled it, the perpetrator has apparently left of their own free will, and the trolling attack has been prevented from reoccurring in the same form. It's over. We're all okay, and I see lots of people up-Board posting fun things so we can get back to business entertainment as usual.
3. Even if it had been zdimensia again, she's just one person. Her incursions have been disruptive and aggravating, yes, but neither she nor any other individual has the power to ruin the PPC unless we give it to them by losing our cool over them. If zdimensia or any permabanned person pops up again, the Nameless Admin will deal with it. If some new kind of trolling happens, the Nameless Admin will find a new way to deal with it. That's why we have the Nameless Admin, and they're pretty good at it.
4. Skarm, this is for you specifically: We are not that dA community you used to be in. Please stop relating every upset that happens here to that one seemingly isolated incident in your life. From where I sit, the way you keep working yourself into a panic over these things in the exact same way looks kinda unhealthy for you, and besides, that sort of emotional upset is exactly what trolls feed on. So, work on it, yeah? We're all okay, and we're all going to be okay. We're far from needing to build some sort of nuclear troll bunker to keep doing our thing. {= )
~Neshomeh
This, especially:
"Her incursions have been disruptive and aggravating, yes, but neither she nor any other individual has the power to ruin the PPC unless we give it to them by losing our cool over them."
This is something we should all keep in mind in general, IMO.