Oh, I've read the letter one.

Subject: Oh, I've read the letter one.
Author: Huinesoron
Posted on: 2017-11-20 19:45:00 UTC

That was good. And yeah, I see what you mean - but I feel that you could also have a good story in pieces of Middle-earth that have no connection to the canon characters. It would be interesting to read about the division of Arnor, even though the last king of Arnor and the first of Arthedain are nothing more than names on a timeline.

I suppose you could argue that they're still connected because they're part of the link between Isildur and Aragorn, but by that milestick, any dwarf is 'connected' to Thorin by virtue of shedding more light on his culture.

hS

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The Etiquette of Using OCs by OpinionedAngel on 2017-11-20 05:13:00 UTC Reply

Here I am asking for more advice on writing (for fan fiction this time)... and a confession.

I have lots and lots of original character ideas for various fandom, but I've been stymied by a number of factors:

1. What kind of story to write, and whether I should start with canon characters or have an elsewhere story starring the OCs.
2. The bad reputation OCs tend to have thanks to bad writing (though I admit I have done some bad writing myself in the past...)
3. Familiarity with the canon - due to being somewhat of a slackers, I have fallen out of touch with certain canons. I would like to try and catch up though. Not helped by the fact that certain canons have different "universes", for lack of a better term (ie Transformers, Sonic the Hedgehog)
4. Exactly how many characters to use, not helped by the number of names and concepts I have written down. (I may or may not have a bit of OCD - no pun intended).

I hope I'm not coming across as needy, I just want to improve my writing skills and want to do that by writing fanfiction. I just want to get some writing tips.

More questions by OpinionedAngel on 2017-11-24 23:28:00 UTC Reply

Thank you for the advice, I appreciate it.

Some fandoms I have oc ideas for:

*Transformers
*Puella Magi Madoka Magica
*Sonic the Hedgehog
*RWBY
*Tokyo Ghoul
*Steven Universe
*My Little Pony

If it's not too much trouble, could anyone with some familiarity with these give me a hand?
A more direct reply. by Huinesoron on 2017-11-20 15:46:00 UTC Reply

(Since my reply to Miah is incoherent waffling.)

1/ Write a story that explores something the canon doesn't. All my stories (try to) do this. What if there was a tenth member of the Fellowship? What is it like to be a gay elf? What if Susan Pevensie met Maglor? Once you know what your 'What...?' is, you can use that to determine whether you need a canon character or an OC.

2/ Never let yourself be scared out of writing what you want to. Persuaded out of, absolutely - if someone gives reasons why your story is a problem, be open to listening. But never be frightened, intimidated, or bullied into not writing what you want to. Don't be scared of that bad reputation - try to prove that it's wrong.

3/ Decent wikis are your friend; Wookiepedia and Memory Alpha set the standard here, I think. Reviewing the piece of the canon you're writing about is always a good idea, too. And it really helps to know someone who's familiar with it! Most geeks will be delighted to answer all your questions... at length... with diagrams...

4/ The number you need for your story. A story isn't a dumping ground for your characters; they each need a purpose. My first long story centred on a four-person team; it was only much later that I realised one of them had no reason to exist. I'm still sad about writing her out. :-/

hS
Eyyyy, I've got answers for this one! by twistedwindowpane on 2017-11-20 14:47:00 UTC Reply

As someone who has way too many OCs and makes a detailed backstory for each and every one of them, I can confidently say:

1. It depends a lot. There are many combinations of roles for canons and OCs that if written well will definitely work. My fandom OC stories usually involve the OC as the protagonist and canon characters playing small side parts (not meaning that they become just the OC's sidekicks, but meaning that they rarely ever interact with the OC or even show up in the OC's life.) However, that's just what I like to do.

2. That bad reputation shouldn't stop you if you know you aren't going to do bad writing yourself. From my experience on the Internet, I have seen much fewer people with the "all OCs are bad" perspective than I have seen with the more reasonable variant, "bad OCs are bad". If someone doesn't like OCs and attacks you for writing with them, that's not your problem, and indeed, it's one of the few situations in which the phrase "don't like it don't read it" actually applies.

3. Wikis and guides are your friend. So are fandom-specific cliche lists and "Is your [fandom] OC a Mary Sue?" tests that you can find on Wattpad and Quotev. So is Google image searching about "[fandom] Mary Sue" or "[fandom] bad OC" or just "[fandom] OC". That latter source isn't really quite as good as the other stuff, but I use it to supplement the knowledge I gain from those other sources. It's also good to have a wiki by your side even if you think you know what you're doing, because otherwise you might screw something up like, for example, combining all the locations in Wolfenstein 3D and Spear of Destiny to make one generic "Castle Wolfenstein." *bangs head on keyboard repeatedly because I need to rid my OC's backstory of this mistake*

4. Well, by all means write multiple fics if there are too many to put into one, or if there are some who just don't fit into one fic. If your OCs can be grouped together somehow (friend groups, teams, etc), then by all means write something about each group and each remaining OC. Or you could break down the general timeline of a huge group and write fanfics about each part of it, focusing on whichever characters are most relevant to the event each time.

Springhole.net has a good amount of pages dealing with OC creation and fanfiction (link below my signature), so I suggest you check those out for more info.

-Twistey
----
http://www.springhole.net/writing/ocs-fan-characters-and-fandom.htm
OCs by Thoth on 2017-11-20 14:34:00 UTC Reply

Firstly, you need to know the canon pretty well. You don't need perfect knowledge, but you have to know everything pertinant to what you're writing. You should be familiar with the source material, although I wouldn't say you necessarily have to read all of it, depending on how much it is. You don't have to read every SWEU novel before writing any SW fic, for example. And if your fandom has a well-cited and maintained wiki, USE IT!

As for using OCs... Well, I am primarily in the 40k fandom, and OCs are the rule there, not the exception. You are expected to write stories about your OCs, and come up with tales and backstories for all of them. I don't know a single player who hasn't given at least their HQ choice a name and backstory, if not all their other characters. Some of them have even written fairly long stories about them.

Anyways, there's a lot of great fanfiction in that fandom that has nothing to do with canon characters at all. Heck, in most of the very best ones, canon characters take on a relatively minor role. But that's how that universe works: Warhammer is very much about Your Dudes and Your Stories, and it's as much about AARs and what happened at the gaming table as it is about what was written in any book.

Given that background, I'm as interested in the well-written adventures of an OC as any canon character. I'm also partial to a good "day in the life" fic: stories about characters who aren't big heroes or amazing, high-powered awesome people, but just more-or-less normal people living in whatever world.
Re: The Etiquette of Using OCs by Miah on 2017-11-20 07:31:00 UTC Reply

The usage of OCs, for me as a reader, has to maintain the canon characters central role. This does not mean they have to be limited. It doesn't mean the canons must carry the POV. One of my all-time favorite fanfic writers uses many, many OCs and they usually carry the POV. The stories always tell a story that not only introduces the OC, but also moves the narrative of the OC forward.

The catch is that it is always a tale of 'how the canon characters intersected my life.' The canons, when they do appear on-screen, are always suberbly in-character, which helps as well. The stories also tell a story about the canons that deepens or moves them, too.

I do believe you need to know a canon very well before writing in it. How else can you get the voices and backstories and fan-picky details right? I'm passionate about my fandoms. I notice when someone doesn't know them well, but wrote anyway. If it is a messy canon (Marvel, anyone?), then putting the story into context of a particular universe and only knowing it is valid. I love Hawkeye, but so many backstories...

Does that help any?

Do you want a link to that author? I read her LOTR and Stargate fics, but she has some other fandoms, too. I do think she has the best usage of OCs I've ever seen.

My one exception to this: by Huinesoron on 2017-11-20 09:08:00 UTC Reply

Sometimes, the setting itself is enough of a 'canon character' to take the central role. Middle-earth is the obvious one (for me) - you can pick any time and place in Middle-earth's history and reconstruct enough of the culture there to make a compelling backdrop for a story. I have a series of five vignettes set in various places around Middle-earth, and the only canon character who appears is an Ent who was namedropped by Treebeard once. Do the stories suffer, just because I didn't force my two dwarven lesbians to hang out with Thorin or Gimli? Does the tale of a disabled Hobbit need Merry and Pippin to play with him and show that he, too, is a person? Not in the least. They are characters in their world, and that is all they need to be.

Similarly, I could imagine writing a murder mystery set on Qo'noS, starring only Klingons, in which canon characters were mentioned (it'd be hard to not namedrop Kahless the Unforgettable) but didn't appear. Klingon culture is fleshed-out enough for that. You couldn't do the same thing even on Tatooine - the GFFA's #1 filming destination, apparently - because all the culture is either generic or centred on canon characters. (Yes, you could write about how terrible it is to be a slave, but you could set that in America and not change much.) But you could write about living in Jabba's Palace, for instance, where the canon character is - as Miah says - central even when he's not around.

The flip flip side of this is that you have to make your readers want to stick with the story. A Percy Jacksonverse story about your OC Ariadne O'Shea and her quest for the wreck of the Argo is all very well, but unless Ariadne is interesting enough to pay attention to, people are going to head down to the Percy/Annabeth fluff underneath. Fanfic readers are there because they like the canon, so you need to use enough of the canon to keep them there.

My goal with fanfic is to explore unexplored angles. So in the above example, you could find some gods who Riordan hasn't covered (though good luck!), or draw on a myth he hasn't touched. If, though, your story is 'they go through the Labyrinth and run into traps, then Hades tries to trick them, and then they fight a cyclops'... then you're not doing anything new, and why does anyone want to read? Only if Ariadne has a really good hook to draw them in...

hS

Re: My one exception to this: by Miah on 2017-11-20 18:27:00 UTC Reply

I don't think I communicated effectively. The OCs I was trying to convey aren't shoehorned into the lives of the canons.

An example in which the main 'character' is a sword.

Or here where a letter plays a role in several lives.

Oh, I've read the letter one. by Huinesoron on 2017-11-20 19:45:00 UTC Reply

That was good. And yeah, I see what you mean - but I feel that you could also have a good story in pieces of Middle-earth that have no connection to the canon characters. It would be interesting to read about the division of Arnor, even though the last king of Arnor and the first of Arthedain are nothing more than names on a timeline.

I suppose you could argue that they're still connected because they're part of the link between Isildur and Aragorn, but by that milestick, any dwarf is 'connected' to Thorin by virtue of shedding more light on his culture.

hS

Re: Oh, I've read the letter one. by Miah on 2017-11-20 20:50:00 UTC Reply

You have a good point Middle earth is a setting that can handle that sort of story, and it sounds like Warhammer is too. I mostly read TV show and comic book fanfics and they can rarely ever support it, especially ones set in a mostly real world setting.

Absolutely. by Huinesoron on 2017-11-21 14:36:00 UTC Reply

(I've now read the sword one too; my poor heart, it did break.)

Let's take as a hypothetical example the Marvel Cinematic Universe (movies only). It's a great canon, very fleshed out and mostly consistent - but is there space for an OC not connected in some way to the main characters? I think it would be hard to find somewhere for them to go, because most of what makes things interesting is the characters.

To show what I mean, here's a few hypothetical stories you could tell... and why you probably shouldn't:

-Your hero lives in a city on the US West Coast, and fights supercriminals. Great - but why is it fanfic? Superpowers are so generic that you may as well make it original fiction. (Exception: if they're using something connected to one of the main characters - salvaged Iron Man tech, say - then they become an exploration of that connection, and not independent at all.)

-Your OC lives in Vanaheim, and you write a lovely story about her life there. Um... see previous point! 'Idyllic world being attacked' isn't specific enough that you need to make a fanfic, unless you have characters you want to draw in.

-Your OC is a previous Sorcerer Supreme. Yeah, you could write that. But then you're defining them as 'predecessor to Strange and the Ancient One', which is a very firm connection.

And so on. The thing that makes the MCU interesting is the existence of the Avengers and their ilk, not the wider setting. The planets and politics only exist to be a backdrop to their adventures, so writing without tethering the narrative to them isn't usually worthwhile. Contrast Middle-earth or Warhammer 40K, where the setting came first, and was used to build the narrative - Lord of the Rings was literally Tolkien coming up with a story to set in his previous world!

hS

Not sure I entirely agree by [EvilAI]UBEROverlord on 2017-11-22 13:46:00 UTC Reply

In the MCU, you could theoretically tell a story about Joe Workingman set in New York after the end of the First Avengers. Depending on his actual role, you could tell an interesting story without touching one of the Avengers.

But that whole story would centre around them nontheless. by Huinesoron on 2017-11-22 14:50:00 UTC Reply

The reason that story would be interesting isn't because of the inherent interest in New York - it's because the Avengers fought Loki there, and a giant portal disgorged aliens from the sky. Your hypothetical story would be a drawn-out reaction to those events - events which are caused by and played out by the big-name canon characters.

(Also this is... pretty much the backstory of one of the later MCU villains. Not gonna say which, because spoilers.)

hS

Well... by [EvilAI]UBEROverlord on 2017-11-22 22:38:00 UTC Reply

Similar, but not the same.

I think there are a few places that might work. Maybe you could work with a Citizen of Asgard or Xandar. I think there are ways that someone could make it work if they tried hard enough.

The trouble with films is... by Huinesoron on 2017-11-23 08:11:00 UTC Reply

They always try to teach the wrong lessons...# No.

The trouble with films is they have almost no background detail. You name Xandar, but what do we know about Xandar? It has space police. It used to have a war. It looks fairly nice. You could write a story there - but you'd have to either make it a reaction to the events of the films, or straight-up invent a society.

Or take from the comics, of course, which have the advantage of very long runs to build the background in. But then you're writing Marvel Comics fanfic, not MCU at all...

#So I say, why invite stress in?#
#Stop studying strife, and learn to live#
#The unexamined life...#

hS

Re: Absolutely. by Miah on 2017-11-22 05:26:00 UTC Reply

Funnily enough, there actually was a West Coast Avengers team in the 1980's. Hawkeye was the leader, at least for a while. I haven't gotten to read them yet, just summaries, but I will someday.

Hmmm... by Pasty Greens on 2017-11-20 07:23:00 UTC Reply

What immediately comes to mind is to take a look at the canon that you're going to be working with. Get a grasp of how everything works, then find out more about the thing you plan on writing about. If your OC has a certain power, for example, you should look at other characters' powers, how they got them, and if your character's power could work.

Don't let your OC replace a canon character. There was some of this in the Original Series where the author would kill off a canon character and have their OC take their place.You should also get to know how the canon characters act so you can portray them accurately. The way I think about it, good fan fiction is the kind of story you could read to a character in the canon in question, and they would believe it.

If you're just starting off, you're probably going to have an easier time writing for one OC per story. It's better to have one well-rounded character than several flat ones. And just a suggestion for the plot, I'd recommend something simple that would take place between time skips, or perhaps after the story has ended. You'll probably have an easier time saying "This happened sometime between Book 1 and Book 2" than if you were to narrow it down to "This happens during this specific battle scene." You'll have more flexibility and you won't need to worry about little details.

I hope this helps!