CKII is made by the same people as EUIV...

How to Conquer the World by Huinesoron on 2019-02-06 15:34:00 UTC Reply

You know how it is - sometimes, you just get an urge to take over the entire world. Unfortunately that's frowned on in polite society, but luckily, computer games have your back!

There have been a great many games dedicated to letting you play through the history of the world, creating great art, building vibrant cities, and crushing other civilisations under your fancy boots. But which of them is the best?

No, I don't mean anything crass like 'gameplay'. What we want to know is: which of them lets you conquer the most nations on the planet?

1999 - Age of Empires II

Sequel to 1997's Age of Empires, which featured 16 civilisations mostly from Europe, and prequel to 2005's Age of Empires III, which had 14, AoE II takes the crown in its series with no less than 31 nations present. Europe is of course heavily represented, but Northern Africa gets its dues too (there are 4 African nations, counting Saladin's Saracens). Asia has a fair showing, but Australasia is left out entirely, and the Americas have only three nations between them (the Aztecs, Maya, and Inca).

It's worth noting that the reason AoEII has so many nations, and so much global representation, is that they've actually been adding new expansion packs recently. To a 20-year-old game. It's good stuff.

2003 - Rise of Nations

Microsoft's entry into the genre only has 24 civilisations, but in some ways they actually come out ahead. I'm not talking about that huge blue blob in Africa - that's 'Bantu', which is a really broad term. But the Americas are up to 6 nations (only 1 less than Europe!), and two of those are extant Native American tribes ('Lakota' and 'Iroquois').

2005 - Empire Earth II

Once again, the second in the series takes the throne. Empire Earth (2001) actually had more nations, hitting 21, but two of those were fictional, and the others were heavily concentrated in Europe (they are the only entry in this page to let you play as Israel, though). Empire Earth III (2007) had... three. We don't talk about that.

EEII, however, has a nice set of 18, spread around the globe. Compared to the previous entries, it's lacking in a lot of areas, though it does have the unique-in-this-post existence of the Maasai.

And now, it's time to jump genres...

2016 - Civilization VI

Because you can't talk about conquering the world without talking Civ. I've chosen to use the most recent entry here, but they're all pretty heavy on the nations:

-Civ (1991): 14
-Civ II (1996): 21
-Civ III (2001): 31 (matching AoE II)
-Civ IV (2005): 34
-Civ V (2010): 43
-Civ VI (2016): 42... so far

And there is a lot of coverage here. Asia is almost full, and places like Brazil, Australia, and Canada get their first appearances alongside the likes of Georgia and Scotland. We've got a new entry in the Native American roster - the Cree. Even Africa gets a good deal out of Civ, with Arabia and Phoenicia (Carthage) sharing space with Egypt, Nubia, Mali, Kongo, and Zulu.

Now, I'm not about to declare Civ the single best way to conquer the history of the world - I'm sure there are other options! So what are they, and do any of them do anything with Australia other than put some guy in a funny hat?

hS

PS: I really wanted to include Command and Conquer: Red Alert 2, which lets you play as a dozen different countries. But really, there's only two sides, with the nations just a way to pick your unique unit. Still, though - "It will be a sssilent ssspring..." ~hS

Oh, hS. You know not of what you speak. by Scapegrace on 2019-02-06 22:10:00 UTC Reply

Welcome to the wonderful world of Europa Universalis IV

The above is a map of all the nations present at the start of the game, that being in the year 1444 (the game ends in 1821). More are possible to be founded or punted out of larger nations via a peace deal; indeed, this is a very good way of weakening larger nations like Ming China, the Ottomans, and so on. Not only can that be done, but other nations can be formed if, say, a colony becomes independent or a nation fulfils certain requirements.

In total, not including special tags for things like rebels and pirates or special nations that can only appear in the game when added in via outside sources like Jomsvikingr, the Roman Empire, or Jan Mayen (long story), there are seven hundred and eighty-seven unique nation tags in Europa Universalis IV. Okay, you won't see all of them at once. You can't; some, like the Chinese minors, are dependent on a Mingsplosion (as she is called), which is far from guaranteed to happen and something you really have to hope doesn't happen if you're, for example, playing as Ming.

Oh, did I not mention that they're all playable?

Because they're all playable.

And you can conquer the world with all of them.

There's even an achievement for doing it with Ryukyu. =]

OoO by Huinesoron on 2019-02-07 08:52:00 UTC Reply

I actually recognise the title, and considered checking it for inclusion, "but no," quoth I, "it says 'Europe' in the title, there's no point."

More fool me.

What's the gameplay like? My list was three RTS games and one turn-based strategy, but EU looks like it's a higher level of abstraction.

And is it really feasible to conquer the world with, say, Wales, when you have to start by bringing Wales into existence at all?

hS

On EUIV. by Scapegrace on 2019-02-07 15:35:00 UTC Reply

Europa Universalis is a grand strategy title. You have provinces, you have armies, you can develop your nation's ideas over time, and you can use your military might to beat people up. It's a bit like Risk, but bigger and more in-depth and you can play it on your own (so a fun version of Risk. =] ).

And yeah, it's absolutely feasible to conquer the world with Wales; you just need to be smart about it. More than anything, EUIV is a game about diplomacy; building alliances with big friends until you're big enough to stand and fight alone - and then you can take on the big friends you had previously, kick them in the shins, and nick all their stuff. Also, if you're playing as Wales (or any releasable nation), you have to start as the overlord - which means you can trash their economy, disband their armies, and burn their forts to the ground before releasing the nation you want to play as and switching to them.

Wales has actually got really good national ideas for conquering a large empire, too - solid Traditions right out of the gate, a fantastic Ambition (+25% land force limit like whaaaaaaaaaaat), and a lot of unrest control in between. Yes, it's going to be tricky to unite the planet under the Welsh banner, but that's all part of the fun! =]

To give you an example of that game's gameplay, especially when playing as someone very very small, here's noted player of the game Arumba doing a run as one-province nation Navarra on the most recent DLC, "Golden Century":-

Navarra's Golden Century

I hope it is informative. =]

I think this is the appropriate time to bring up CKII... by 61516 on 2019-02-07 22:41:00 UTC Reply

This is a game related to EUIV, and it has lead to an Aztec Pope, Horse assassinations, and every Greek character running a "Can I castrate?" check on every other Greek character.

Also, you can farm gold by using your 17-year-old daughter to matrilineally marry rich old men (to bring them to your court), and then use your vassal patriarch to excommunicate them so you can imprison and execute them without penalty (causing their funds to revert to him as their liege).

CKII is made by the same people as EUIV... by Scapegrace on 2019-02-07 22:49:00 UTC Reply

Though you probably already knew that. =]

In any case, the map for CKII actually is almost entirely Europe-based. While the potential for Very Odd Things is obviously far higher in CKII, especially since the Holy Fury patch that allowed your ruler to be a dog, that wasn't really the brief. Crushing nations beneath the proverbial booted foot was, and that's why I plumped for EU IV. =]
Now if only I could work out how to play... (nm) by Thoth on 2019-02-07 22:47:00 UTC Reply
That should be "you" not "him". by 61516 on 2019-02-07 22:43:00 UTC Reply

The vassal doesn't get the money.

Good excuse to continue the strategy game thread. by twistedwindowpane on 2019-02-06 19:09:00 UTC Reply

So, updates on the PPC strategy games:

- Plortish Warfare: I put Delta Juliette in charge of the Plort strategy game, as she actually wrote some stuff about Plortish warfare. No further progress has happened about that. She also hasn't acknowledged my promotion of her to the head of the project.

- Mass Mission: I was debating with hS about whether he should undertake the mass mission strategy game. He mentioned a PPC board game he came up with earlier that was really bad. Perhaps fixing that is a good starting point, and then we can amp up the scale.

- Shiny Newbie: hS is undertaking this project, which has gone from being a strategy game to a visual novel. (I think.) I mentioned an idea to him that at one point in time, the player could play as a badficcer who was sporked and got on the Board to look for answers (while not telling anyone who they were), it has not been responded to.

- Boarder Wars: Since I haven't gotten enough support to make an actual Axis and Allies parody, I'm instead going to research on how to make a Boarder-themed Hearts of Iron 4 reskin, which I shall call "Hearts of Bleeprin." As HoI4 is a WWII game, I'm going to make the sacrifice of taking Germany (unless someone legitimately wants it), so who else wants a country?

-Twistey

Noooo, I'm not doing the mass mission one. by Huinesoron on 2019-02-12 13:56:00 UTC Reply

I don't think the original board game (here) is fixable; you're better to start from scratch.

Shiny Newbie is still vaguely ongoing. I don't know what kind of game it is to be honest.

hS

I don't think anything is unfixable, but I'll let it go. by twistedwindowpane on 2019-02-12 14:54:00 UTC Reply

What type of strategy game would be good to look at for a base, then, so I and whoever my team ends up being can start from there?

-Twistey

Except for the fact that it was OT... (nm) by twistedwindowpane on 2019-02-11 16:31:00 UTC Reply