Subject: It's a never-ending debate about food deserts
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Posted on: 2018-11-25 02:16:00 UTC
But I subscribe to the philosophy that there is such a thing as psychological impact of poverty. You have to fix the minds, not throw money at the problem - but it is much more difficult and more expensive short-term, which is why it has not and will not be done...
At another discussion board, a topic came up about people losing cooking skills, especially younger generations really now knowing how to cook. All of my close friends, who are in mid-thirties to mid-forties, are good to great cooks - but there may be a selection bias. I don't really know many people who are younger than 30, but I know many PPCers fall into that category. So, I hope you can prove me right and say that are, in fact, capable of putting together at least one meal that is not takeout/reheating a frozen package. :)
I live with three other people who are good cooks and actually enjoy cooking, so it's bit hard to work up the motivation to learn a skill I don't enjoy. My brother's teaching me, though, if slowly. I can do a few simple things, oatmeal, potatoes, things on that level. Plus the family pizza recipe. That's basically a requirement for my household.
Eggs, sausage and spam. Spam, spam, spam, spa-
No, wait.
Eggs, sausage and some pastas, yes. With acceptable casualties.
I was actually terrified of breaking down a chicken until I was 30 years old and I had to talk myself into it, reminding myself that if I passed anatomy where it was really important that I don't cut some tissue, then I surely can cut a chicken when no one cares if it's not done 100% perfect. And it turned out to be easy. I was afraid to cook meat at all until I was 23, too, even though I have been cooking fish since I was 10 or 11. :)
People who don't cook don't seem to grasp that it's not hard, and also that if the pot's boiling over, take it off the burner, I don't care what the book says.
Yeah most anything, save for breads.
And as a student and (job-searching diplomee) living alone, I sure hope I can cook, I'd die of hunger otherwise... Or I'd ruin my budget buying kebabs and the likes (seriously, you can get meat and vegetables for four dishes if you spend smart against one kebab costing six Euros).
I usually use woks, pans or a small oven, and wouldn't dream of not using fresh vegetables (carrots, courgette or bell pepper, they're easier to cook. Sometimes with mushrooms) in my dish to go with the meat (usually chicken, it's cheaper) and rice/couscous/pasta, generally with soy sauce (or tomato sauce, or cream+mustard) and a few spices... I thank my mother's cooking habits for these skills and habits (I also have a brother who can do pizzas).
Speaking of her, I remember she talked the fact the idea people ate and cooked better in the past was sort of overblown, with conserves, frozen packages and the likes being all the rage during the 70s and 80s...
I read a fascinating book about changes in the way people approached eating and cooking, how it started in the early 20th century and gathered steam all the way through 80s when it slowly started to swing back. So "good old days" of cooking would be 1930s/1940s through maybe 1950s depending on the locale. And then yes, packaged foods became all the rage.
My mom cooked pretty much the same as her grandmother so I grew up eating like it was still 19th century. :) Despite both my parents working long hours, we almost never had a meal that wasn't 100% made from scratch. Though we often did eat the same thing 2-3 days in a row (which I know some people hate, but I don't mind).
I cook mainly Chinese dishes, and I have a friend who was nice enough to teach me some Japanese dishes. Even if I'm pressed for time, it's not too hard to whip up a chicken teriyaki or a simple stir fry.
Pretty well, if I do say so myself :) It's rare I make anything truly inedible, anyway.
It actually became something I could call a true hobby over the past year or so, though I've been interested in it and experimenting with it for years. It's just that last year suddenly I was responsible for all my own food, so I had to do a lot of cooking, and I hate being bored by what I'm cooking or eating, so...yeah. I got really into it. I'm still pretty into it. I spent several hours going through recipe ideas a few days ago, just because they looked interesting and I thought I might find some things to try.
~Z
Heck, eating is a waste of time, and I wouldn't bother with it, except that I literally have to to stay alive.
But I spend nearly the entire waking portion of my work week either at work, getting ready for work, or feeding myself. I have no interest in messing around with ovens; they take way too long. I do use the stove, but only to boil hot dogs for dinner (+ an extra to pack in my lunch for the next shift), or to make my pot of breakfast spaghetti for the week on my first shift day of the week. (I go in two hours early most days, so I need to pack as much mass into my stomach at the start of the day as possible to make sure my energy lasts to lunch break.) Otherwise, I'm a microwave man. Chicken nuggets, frozen pizza, cheese crisps (the gringo kind), whatever hats up the fastest so I can eke out a few precious minutes of internet time between shifts. I also have tuna and crackers for dinner a lot of nights now, since the high energy cost period was recently changed in Arizona and doesn't end until 8:00 pm, and I try not to use the microwave before then to save on the electric bill. I do allow myself to make macaroni and cheese for weekend lunches, since those are the only days I have time to to wash all the dishes that result from that mess. Food is food, and I don't care much about quality, fanciness or variety, just so long as it keeps me fed.
But I would happily cut out eating altogether if I could. If nothing else, it would allow me to go back up to eight hours of sleep every night instead of seven, which my body sorely needs.
—since age was brought up, doctorlit is thirty-two
If I ate the way you do, I would hate eating too. I didn't use to like eating until I was in my mid-20s, I think, mainly because I grew up on really boring foods - good, but rather plain. Once exposed to different cuisines from around the world, I discovered the joys of having a great meal. You don't sound like you are very happy with your life at the moment, and I do wish better things come your way.
I'm a workaholic. I don't begrudge the zoo animals the time I put into their care; I just have the same interest or drive in taking care of myself. I just meant I would rather have more time for hobby work in addition to career work, rather than spend so much time on mundane things like eating.
—doctorlit, content with being useful to the planet (more important than being happy)
I like to pan-fry things and I occasionally bake.
So far, I generally cook one thing at a time.
I don't often, but I can. My dad is quite good at cooking, so it would be weird if he didn't teach me a thing or two. I can make a decent omlette, hot dogs, hamburgers, et al, and I'm able to actually cook from a recipe.
Although I must admit, I don’t tend to do much.
So back in college I worked part time in the kitchens of a bar/restaurant, which gave me a lot of experience cooking, and a bunch of recipes I could take with me when I left.
My issue these days is just how impractical it is to do anything particularly involved when you’re only cooking for one person: the amount of prep time, the amount of washing up it can generate, and sometimes even just trying to buy the ingredients without having a bunch of stuff go to waste – there’s a lot of stuff that I know how to cook, that just don’t feel like they’re worth doing.
Still, I try and make sure I only use microwave meals/takeaways once or twice a week. Most of what I do I don’t consider to be ‘proper’ cooking, as it largely just consists of heating different things for slightly different amounts of time (boil some carrots and peas, cheat a little and microwave a pack of rice, serve with some sausages) – no real skill of effort needed, but at the weekends I might do something a bit more involved.
-Irish
My approach is to make soups - easy, cheap and makes 4 batches that I either eat for four dinners straight (my lunches all come from the cafeteria at work) or I eat for two meals and freeze the rest in portion-sized containers. Or making do with single sheet-tray to roast some fish and veggies. Slow-cooker is good too, to load up in the morning with meat and veggies and come back to dinner that makes 2-3 servings. I am lucky that most stores near me sell small packages or bulk produce that are enough for just 2-3 meals so I don't have to buy a huge bag and throw away half of it.
I mean, it's OK as a starter, but I don't really see it as main course. And I'm not overly fond of having the same thing again each day. I'll do it occasionally just for the economy of cooking/washing, but if I'm doing that I generally just double up on the portions to give myself one extra meal out of it.
I do sometimes do large amounts of various pasta sauces: eat one straight away, one in the fridge for later in the week, couple in the freezer for the following weeks, but I've been tending to cook less pasta for myself, because if I'm going to buy ready meals they tend to be pasta. So if I'm actually cooking pasta too, I'll occasionally realize that I've gone for a week or so just eating pasta (and that realization typically goes hand in hand with the realization for why a bunch of my clothes don't fit properly any more).
I get the idea of a slow-cooker, and I'm sure they're perfectly safe, but there's a part of me that just doesn't like the idea of leaving food cooking unattended for that length of time.
For me, it's just about reducing the hassle of the washing up, so I'm generally looking to cook stuff using a maximum of one pot/pan and one oven tray, which gives a fair amount of scope for variety.
Oh, and since it was relevant to your initial question, I'm 32, so don't quite fall in to that younger category now. But my first job in a restaurant was at 16, and I'd been helping with the cooking around the house for years before that, so I've kind of always known how to cook.
-Irish
Like I mentioned in my reply to Scape below, my mom's absolutely amazing in the kitchen and she passed her knowledge on to me and my little brother. (My dad's no slouch as a chef, either, and he taught us some things too, but Mom is usually the one making dinner, so... anyway, rambling.)
When I moved into my uni dorm, I ended up sharing a flat with five other people. Out of them, only one knew how to make his own meals, and that's because he'd been living on his own for a while before.
I taught two of them how to cook and they've finally gained enough confidence in the kitchen to start trying new things; one of them has taken a shine to making ham in the slow cooker, the other tried making fresh bread the other day (and it was delicious), and we've taken to collaborating on meals. It's resulted in some strange combinations like horchata, spaghetti, and potatoes, but hey, it tasted good. :P
When I was in school, my friends and I would sometimes cook together while we were studying, and coming from very different backgrounds, we had some eclectic meals too. In fact, if not for my friends exposing me to different cuisines and ingredients, I am not sure I would be as adventurous an eater and cook as I am today. :)
I live in a part of the world where it's very easy to get fresh produce, particularly fish; my local fishmonger operates his own fifteen-boat fleet and once supplied fish to the Queen. Other people don't have that luxury. There's the phenomenon of "nutritional deserts", in which poor people who get paid once a month and therefore have to get food that lasts a month for some reason buy frozen ready meals rather than fresh fruit and vegetables. This is a truly inexplicable state of affairs and is probably to do with how poor people are just too stupid to know what healthy food is, so we'll send Jamie Oliver in to look mournfully at a chicken nugget and this will solve everything forever.
Another big part of the lack of cooking skills is the idea that you should be constantly working, all the time, always and forever. Breaks are breaks in productivity and therefore to be not only discouraged but shamed. Not only does nobody have the time to learn how to cook, nobody has the energy to cook. If you've done a twelve-hour shift for a pittance of wages that you won't see for dust come payday's round of bills and are trying to keep a house in order, you don't want to run the risk of the household going hungry for a night and/or wasting a load of money by trying and failing to cook something. It's wasteful to try and cook; wasteful of your time and energy and very limited resources. So you don't try. You can't try. And trying only ever hurts you.
But I subscribe to the philosophy that there is such a thing as psychological impact of poverty. You have to fix the minds, not throw money at the problem - but it is much more difficult and more expensive short-term, which is why it has not and will not be done...
How do you intend to do that without fixing the surrounding system that causes and perpetuates nutrition deserts?
And I say that after twenty-one years of being spoiled by my mother's cooking, which I will very cheerfully say can rival Molly Weasley's. :)
I need to do that wild garlic samphire again.
I can cook pasta, if that counts, and I’m a fairly good baker. I still have a lot of learning to do to be able to cook properly.
But I am capable of making a meal, considering as I have passed my year 11 Cooking class. Gonna go for the Year 12 course, up my skills a bit more.
Granted, I know many people my age who eat two minute noodles often, so it does have a basis.
When I was in school, it was mandatory for girls. We started with simple things like salads and no-bake desserts and progressed to homemade jams and cakes eventually... While I mostly learned to cook with my parents/grandparents/aunt and later friends and TV, I still think the class was a good idea.
As an adult, I have taken a few cooking classes too, just for the fun of it and to learn some specific skills.
But often I'm too lazy to really cook stuff. I can do a lot of baking as well, and (for the most part) I do enjoy doing both.
I can cook! I've got a kitchen and a slow-cooker and everything. I still don't have the knack of breadmaking, but I can do a reasonable amount of other things.
Of course, I'm also starting into my thirties, so I'm not terribly far into the younger generations. :)
I am not good with yeast-based doughs myself, so I have bought a bread machine that helps me with that. I think my home is not warm enough (I usually only feel like baking in the cold time of the year).
And I have been told slow-cookers are terribly old-fashioned with people going for instant cookers and multi-cookers nowadays, but I love my simple, basic Crockpot with three settings on its only knob. :)
Namely: preheat your oven to 200°F, then turn it off and put your bread dough in to rise. That gets around having a cooler kitchen.
Knowing very little about bread machines, I assume yours does something similar, but at any rate, here's the lower-tech version :)
As for slow-cookers--I don't have one myself, but I watch a lot of recipe videos, and they seem to be really popular right now. Including for making things like monkey-bread and other desserts, which seems a bit strange to me, but it's certainly creative. I suppose I could be mistaking them for the other types you mentioned, but as far as I remember, the devices in the videos were referred to as slow-cookers, so I'm running with that.
Anyway. If you love yours, then current trends don't matter anyway :) My family has a Vitamix that's older than I am and works splendidly.
What's your favorite thing to make in your slow-cooker?
~Z
Yep, bread machine does warm up the mix to make it rise better. And it can bake it too - mine has 8 different settings for different dough types, and you can always stop anything at the dough stage and just take it out and bake on your own. Or let the machine do its thing. My parents have been using one to bake bread - they would bake a loaf every other day or so - for years, my Mom is now on her fourth or fifth one...
My favorite slow-cooker meal is pulled pork! And I have made my own sauce for it - I was stuck with two gallons of frozen aronia so I have been experimenting with it in many different ways. One was a barbecue type sauce that was an utter failure as a sauce to smother already cooked meat, but works amazing as a marinade/cooking sauce for that same meat.