Subject: I... hadn't thought about that.
Author:
Posted on: 2018-11-15 12:26:00 UTC
I think it's the tiger, as Huan was more Luthien's than Beren's, but the tiger didn't have much role in the plot, so maybe flying carpet? Also, I don't think Middle-earth actually had any of those things, but that's just a minor detail.
And I mean really insane. This idea has been floating around in my head for a little while, and I thought the Board might enjoy it.
In which I merge the plots of Aladdin and The Silmarillion to come up with something that (hopefully) makes sense. And if it doesn't, I can just say that was the whole point!
“Father,” said Jasmine, “please! He might be a mortal man, but he is as valiant as any prince of Elves, and I love him more than anyone else in the world!”
Sultan Thingol stared at her without compassion. “Be that as it may,” he said sternly, “I will not marry my daughter to any but an elven prince.”
Aladdin met the Sultan’s eyes, unafraid. “I will return one day as anything you desire me to be. Until then, Jasmine, farewell.”
He bowed respectfully to the Sultan, and then turned and left.
“I am worried about what he may do,” said Queen Melian. “He is half-mad with love.”
“Father, I beg leave to go after him. I will find out his plans and inform you of them.”
Thingol glanced at his wife, who nodded. “Very well,” he said. “I give you ten minutes.”
“Thank you, Father,” said Jasmine, and dashed from the room.
“I am not worried,” Thingol replied, once Jasmine was safely out of earshot. “I am quite sure he will never return.”
Melian shook her head. “He is stronger than you know. His actions may have political repercussions far beyond his own fate.”
“We shall see,” Thingol murmured. “We shall see.”
“Aladdin! Wait!”
Aladdin turned slowly around. “Jasmine? Go back. It is not safe for you to come.”
“I do not ask to come,” Jasmine said, sounding slightly hurt. “I only wish to know what you will do.”
“I will become a prince of Elves, if that is what I must be to win you. I will find one of the legendary Silmarils, said to grant their bearer a wish.”
Jasmine gasped. “But the Silmarils are in the Iron Crown of Morgoth himself! You can’t possibly hope to enter Angband and come out alive!”
“If I do not, I can never hope to convince your father that I am worthy of you.”
“My father! What do you care about him? I do not need his approval for my actions. I am not a child. If he will not give his consent to our marriage, I will come with you and we shall find some place to live together, well away from Doriath.”
“No,” said Aladdin, “I will not take you if I have nothing to give you. I shall return, Jasmine, a prince as your father wishes, and the Silmaril will be your wedding gift.”
“Very well,” Jasmine replied after a pause, “go. But if you do not return – “
“I will,” insisted Aladdin. “Goodbye, Jasmine.”
“Goodbye,” she said softly, and then they turned away from each other.
Plans from here involve more plot-fusion with the sons of Feanor taking on the role of Jafar. And the idea of a Silmaril-genie is just too crazy to lose!
...someone needs to write a LotR-style epic fantasy thing based on myths from the Middle East. And, like, not be racist about it. That'd be so cool.
-Twistey
Okay, Epic Fantasy roundup time! We know that a lot of fantasy (including Middle-earth) is inspired by British mythology and medieval Britain. But that's far from the only possible inspiration.
If you want Africa as your inspiration, check out N.K. Jesmin. Her Broken Earth series won the Hugo award for all 3 books (I believe that's the only time that's happened). I've read the first one, and it's very different to your European fantasy.
Going specifically to the Middle East, Google recommends Saladin Ahmed's 'Throne of the Crescent Moon'. I've not read it, but the list looks trustworthy, since it also includes Jesmin and...
'Earthsea'! Ursula leGuin was inspired by North America, which gives the Earthsea books a distinctly different feel.
Also from North America: Niven and Pournelle's Burning City/Burning Tower duology, set mostly in prehistoric California.
And going back to Google's recommendations: how about a Central Asian fantasy where 'the sky changes color as you move between empires, moons come and go, some people live beneath cherry red skies, and humanoid tigers are a thing.' That's Range of Ghosts, by Elizabeth Bear.
What I /don't/ know is how many of these were written by people actually immersed in and learned in the culture, as Tolkien was. Maybe if you read them, you can find out. :)
hS
The plan is to more or less follow Silm up until the encounter with the Sons of Feanor after the rescue from Sauron.
At this stage the SoFs are impressed by Jasmine-Luthien's magic and realise they might actually have half a chance to get the Silmarils, so they "offer their assistance" in the quest.
They all proceed to Angband, Jasmine-Luthien puts Morgoth to sleep... and that's where it all goes horribly wrong: the SoFs turn on Aladdin-Beren and Jasmine-Luthien as soon as the Silmarils are out of the Iron Crown.
That's where I get stuck: I can't follow Silm canon any more and Aladdin canon seems rather unlikely if no new Silmarils are created.
There are several possibilities:
1. The inevitable battle wakes Morgoth.
This basically dooms everyone, but there's a chance that one or more of them could get away, perhaps with Silmarils. They wouldn't get far, though.
Who would try and fight and who would try and escape? Aladdin-Beren and Jasmine-Luthien would refuse to leave each other. They wouldn't willingly hand over the Silmarils to the SoFs, so if they ran the SoFs would follow them and no-one would get anywhere.
Obviously I want a happy ending, so I think that's more or less ruled out.
2. Morgoth doesn't wake up.
This is a lot more interesting because the fight would be quite evenly matched. Jasmine-Luthien probably doesn't have any magic left, and they couldn't realistically fight off two SoFs at once.
This would mean the SoFs win - except the Silmarils would burn their hands. Could either of them have anticipated this and brought gloves or a casket?
Exactly how bad is the hand-burning? Could it kill Elves, or would they be able to just think past it and run?
3. The Silmaril-genie is summoned.
That relies on a knowledge of what the Silmaril-genie actually is. My favourite theory so far is that it's actually Feanor himself, and some sort of magic tied his spirit to them after he died.
If the SoFs summon Feanor, they've obviously won. Again, the requirement for a happy ending removes that option, depending on how you define "happy". You could say that the SoFs are the lesser evil and that's good enough for you.
If Aladdin-Beren or Jasmine-Luthien summons Feanor, on the other hand...that depends exactly what they wish for. I presume that would be "get all of us out of Angband" which would be something everyone could agree on.
That just means continuing the fight outside - or Aladdin-Beren could make his wish to become an elf-prince and then abandon the Silmarils.
Most importantly, what on earth (I mean Arda) does this do to Silm canon?
That was a lot longer than I expected!
For option 2, Cel'n'Cur aren't the brightest buttons in the box, so no, they wouldn't have brought gloves. As far as they're concerned, they have an absolute right to hold the Silmarils, so 'maybe they'll burn us' isn't even on their radar.
Option 3... option 3 is interesting. ^_^
Feanor trapped in the Silmarilli makes, uh, 'sense'; he's literally named Firesoul, and the things were designed to capture light. But how would he respond to being wished at?
Let's assume he's arbitrarily powerful at this point. He's had nearly 500 years of sitting around on Morgoth's head to hone his post-mortal artisan skills, I'm sure he can craft a spiritual invention for every occasion. And rather than a literal 'has to do what you say' (in which case Morgoth would already have used him), a 'will do pretty much anything to get away from Morgoth' rule will function in much the same way, but still let him argue.
To hew a little close to Aladdin canon, the first 'wish' could be the whole 'I bet you couldn't get us four out of here'. That puts the gang outside Angband, where there's a rather angry wolf hanging around.
Hmm... what if the quartet appear in hiding, and it's Cel'n'Cur fighting with a) the lovers, b) their ghost-dad, and c) each other that attract Carcharoth. Then Aladdin gets his hand chomped (losing one of the three Silmarils), and Jasmine makes a wish on his behalf - 'he wishes for you to get us away from everyone trying to kill us!' That matches Aladdin's second wish, and also gets around the eagle situation.
Feanor has to leave Cel'n'Cur behind (because they're part of the 'trying to kill us'), which means Aladdin can do his 'make me a prince' wish in relative peace. That runs him out of wishes, because the third one is locked in Carcharoth's belly.
So now we're in Doriath, and Sultan Thingol hears of a great wolf on the rampage - and two elven hunters chasing it. Cel'n'Cur wouldn't let the one Silmaril left near them get away, right? All three of them are heading for Doriath.
So as Carcharoth romps through the forest, Cel'n'Cur go and steal the remaining two Silmarils from Aladdin. That's when they pull Jafar's 'make me Sultan/make me as powerful as Sauron' thing (and also a 'make Jasmine love me', which is actually a thing Curufin wanted in one of the early versions of the LoL). Aladdin points out that Feanor is still more powerful than them - but that they're out of wishes. Which means all four of them (plus Huan the Tigerdog) get to go hunt Carcharoth.
If Feanor is a ghost, do Cel'n'Cur get mortally wounded during the hunt, take the Silmaril between them, wish to 'be just like you, dad', and then promptly die? If you want a happy ending, Beren can't die, so they can take that role. That leaves Aladdin free to take up the last Silmaril and set Feanor free at last, to go (with his sons!) off into the West and seek some kind of rest.
Obviously that's just one option, but I think it shows that it could work.
~
Now: what would this do to Arda? First off, you'd very shortly have a Sudden Flame 2.0 as Morgoth comes stomping out (not in person, his feet hurt) to try and get the Silmarils back. I'm trying to get my head round how that war would play out - on the Elves' side, they aren't at all ready for it, and are still reeling from the last one, but Morgoth isn't prepared either, and he doesn't have a traitor in Maedhros' camp like he did at the Unnumbered Tears. With the Host of Angband heading straight for him, Thingol would have to actually send his army out, and between him, Orodreth, Turgon, and Fingon, I think they could pretty much destroy anything Morgoth sends down the Vale of Sirion.
The east is a different matter. If Morgoth goes that way, the (remaining) Sons of Feanor are going to be pretty battered, and have to withdraw. So in a reverse of the canon, it's going to be East Beleriand which is overrun, with the dwarves, the Green Elves, and Maedhros fighting a guerilla war, while over in the west, things are relatively okay.
Once that's resolved, Maedhros now has a huge grudge against Doriath. Not only do they have all the Silmarils, they also killed (kinda) two of his brothers. In canon, he leaves them be until Luthien dies; I don't think he'd do the same here. So you get an attempted Second Kinslaying against a Doriath led by Thingol, Melian, Beren, and Luthien (since they didn't die and wander off to Ossiriand). Again, I have no idea how that would go, but it would be super messy - and of course, with the Feanorians focussed on Doriath, Morgoth would be able to push through their remnant territory and cut around to the south...
Yeah, I have no idea where this ends up. Earendil crossing the Helcaraxe? Luthien and Melian taking on Morgoth face-to-face? Maedhros making common cause with Angband? Pretty much anything could happen!
hS
Well... at the time Morgoth stole the Silmarils Feanor was alive, so maybe Morgoth never actually knew he had what he needed for victory on top of his head...
but in that case how did Aladdin find out? The only logical way would be for Feanor's sons to have seen his spirit heading off to Angband when he died... would they have told anyone?
I think so - maybe they told Thingol in an effort to convince him to attack Morgoth instead of hiding behind the Girdle.
So... that kind of fits... and talking of the Girdle, I'm not sure the SoFs could get through to speak to Aladdin - unless when the people from Doriath go out to hunt Carcharoth... but I doubt Sultan Thingol would let anyone get away with stealing the Silmarils from his soon-to-be-son-in-law.
As for what happens to Arda, I imagine that sooner or later Morgoth would come to Doriath himself. I'm not sure Melian and Luthien (err, Jasmine) could hold out against him...
This happy ending rule seems to be cutting off nearly all the options.
I think... Morgoth gets in, then Sultan Thingol challenges him to single combat while Melian, Aladdin and Jasmine escape with the Silmarils and everyone evacuates...
or do the Orcs and Balrogs devastate the city long before that happens?
If Feanor's been freed by this stage, the good guys have made a big mistake - that "wish Morgoth to the Timeless Void" thing would really come in handy at this stage...
I can't really see Maedhros and Morgoth ever making an alliance - neither of them trust each other one bit, and I think the Oath would still mean they had to take vengeance, even if Morgoth had lost the Silmarils.
Then, of course, there's the "maximum chaos" option - once the Girdle's down but before Morgoth can do anything else, the Feanorians arrive for a massive three-way battle where no-one can decide who they're meant to be fighting...
I think I may just have unwittingly doomed the whole of Middle-earth.
Can’t the SoFs just use their new Sauron powers to defeat Carcharoth?
Did no-one think of wishing Morgoth into the Timeless Void? Because that would save an awful lot of bloodshed... or just focus the hatred of the remaining sons of Feanor onto the other Elves, causing more Kinslaying.
Would Feanor really want to be set free? Surely even being bound to the Silmarils would be preferable to going to the halls of Mandos?
Wouldn’t the SoFs get six wishes, three each? Or do they take them together so they don’t end up double-crossing each other?
Presumably Maedhros wouldn’t be able to get through the Girdle... so a siege of Doriath? That would probably fail, but when Morgoth gets involved the Feanorians would be trapped between two enemies.
Would Melian let them in (bearing in mind they’ll then try and kill everyone to get to the Silmarils) or leave them to the non-existent mercy of Morgoth?
Too many questions!
Does this make Huan the tiger, the monkey, or the flying carpet?
hS
I think it's the tiger, as Huan was more Luthien's than Beren's, but the tiger didn't have much role in the plot, so maybe flying carpet? Also, I don't think Middle-earth actually had any of those things, but that's just a minor detail.
... does that make Finrod the monkey? :D
And the corpse bat-fell of Thuringwethil the flying carpet?
DIGRESSION: did Middle-earth have tigers, monkeys, or flying carpets?
Tigers: kinda! Tevildo was Prince of Cats, and the villain in the original version of the Tale of Tinuviel. He and his court were giant cats, in the same way that Huan is a giant dog; they ended up shrinking to house-cat size when Tevildo's magic collar was removed. So not tigers per se, but felines on the same scale, yes. (Amusingly, Tevildo's cook is named Miaulë - 'meow-ley'. Tolkien has a strange sense of humour.)
Monkeys: Yes! Specifically in the form of apes (okay, traditionally 'monkey' applies to all primates outside the apes, but that's paraphyletic and I reject it). They first get a mention from Grishnakh the orc, of all people:
'You speak of what is deep beyond the reach of your muddy dreams, Uglúk,' he said. 'Nazgûl! Ah! All that they make out! One day you'll wish that you had not said that. Ape!' he snarled fiercely. 'You ought to know that they're the apple of the Great Eye.
We later get a narrative mention in the battle of the Hornburg:
Many were cast down in ruin, but many more replaced them, and Orcs sprang up them like apes in the dark forests of the South.
Flying carpets: Yes! Wait, no. But! Among Tolkien's drawings are a beautiful pair of Numenorean carpets:
So if he had written about flying carpets, we at least know what they would have looked like. ^_^
hS