Subject: Just a sidenote
Author:
Posted on: 2019-10-06 00:20:00 UTC
Yes, you're right about Sorka and Sean. They were leaders before the dragons were introduced.
Nothing else to add, really. You covered all the bases.
-
Thoth Reviews: Masterharper of Pern (and rambles a bit) by
on 2019-10-02 17:06:00 UTC
Reply
Well, long, long, long after I intended to read this book, I've finally done it.
Man, why did I wait?
Masterharper of Pern might just be in contention for the best book in the Pern series. It's a strong book, anchored by a strong character, full of action and excitement and diplomacy and good humor and love and loss and all that good stuff.
But that's not what I came here to talk to you about. I came here to talk about thedraftproblem with series.
The problem with a series, or any large work, really, is getting into it. They're by definition long, so... it can be rough. Various series have different approaches to this, like "start wherever you like! I have some recommendations, but really, you can't go wrong!" (Discworld), "Suffer through the first 50000 chapters, I swear it gets good eventually" (Homestuck), and "If I tell you how to get started, another fan will immediately attack me and provide you with contradictory advice" (Fate).
Pern belongs in the second category, which is fairly common. Most series have installments that to some degree depend on what came before. So you have to be familiar with what did come before in order. This can still be overwhelming to newcomers, but Pern isn't that dense in its canon. It's... really not that bad. It's far from the crushing weight of the Homestuck canon.
But of course, there's another problem. That is that long-running series rarely put their best foots forward. It usually takes a few installments for the author to find their footing, and before that, the books tend to suffer from various issues, and generally be Weird in the context in future series. This is why Sir Pterry himself will tell you not to start with the first Discworld novel. Which, to be fair, isn't a bad book. But it's certainly not representative of the later novels, nor is it of quite the same quality. It's Not Quite There Yet. The same with The Dresden Files, but you have to read the first books first in that series. I mean, they're entertaining, but new readers are sometimes a little bit disappointed. Ah well. At least they probably enjoyed it.
The unique thing about Pern is that it probably has a worse start that any of the above. Part of that is just that Pern is Really Really Weird and new readers will have to come to understand that weirdness and get used to it. The whole series really does feel like it's a product of its time, but not in the same way that, say, Asimov does. It's utterly unique, which is part of what gives it its charm.
But... well, here was my first exposure to Pern: I opened to the first page of the first book, was choked on a barrage of overwrought description, and closed it again. This isn't reflective of later books in the series. This is Ann McCaffrey having not yet found her footing.
Dragonflight is not good. Okay, that's an oversimplification. The first third of Dragonflight is bad. The last third of Dragonflight is great. The middle is... in between. This is because Dragonflight is actually three novellas, and the first one was among McCaffrey's very first works. The jump in quality from the start to the end is so massive, but getting new readers over that initial hump is... rough, to say the least. I only did it because I had to, because I had to read Pern so I could write for the rest of you.
And even that great third isn't exactly representative. Pern still hasn't found its footing. It finally does... two books later, with the start of the Harper Hall trilogy. Which is a massive jump in quality from the very start as we go headlong into a run of books that are all-but-certainly the absolute best of Pern.
So in order to get into Pern, readers have to stomach a book that's half-bad and a second book that's only solid, before they can get into the really good stuff. Or they can just skip straight to the good stuff, and ruin the genuinely great parts of the those first two books that are really worthwhile.
This, to put it bluntly, sucks. And while the prequel books (which can't spoil anything, essentially) go a long way to help provide other entry points, they're still not exactly great entrypoints. Dragonsdawn kind of ruins a later book, and is radically different from pretty much all of the rest of Pern, and Dragonseye is a better introduction but still to weird, too early, and too different to quite feel right as a way of bringing in newcomers. Moreta's Ride might be better, but... my library didn't have that one. So I've never read it.
If only there was a way to bring people into Pern in a way that puts its best foot forward... If you're a Pern fan, I'm sure you see where I'm going with this, but let me explain.
In short, Masterharper of Pern might just be the best entrypoint into Pern for new readers. I can't say for sure, because I'm not a new reader, and it does implicitly expect some understanding of the setting. But I still strongly suspect that it's a better introduction than any other one I can think of. It's a prequel, but not a distant one: it ends just as the first novel in the city begins. And it's very, very good. It shows the central appeal of Pern, even if there aren't quite so many dragons in it (which, if you've read Pern, you may find aren't really the central focus or primary appeal--at least, I don't think they are. YMMV). In fact, it centers on what may just be one of the key elements of what makes Pern so great.
Robinton.
Masterharper Robinton is not in every Pern novel. He's in a lot of them. And he is an important, well-loved character (there are enough blatant-self-insert-romances-Robinton fanfics to keep both DMS and Despatch busy for a few weeks, and given the relative dearth of Pern fic, that's saying something). But in my opinion it goes further than that.
As I see it, Robinton is... well, he's the embodyment of what Pern aspires to. He's Pern's finest son by Pern's own admission (is there really a soul who doesn't like him?). His ideals are the ideals of the setting, those that are imbued into the very fabric of the world.
And so, to my mind, to love Robinton is to understand why you might love Pern.
So, despite having to suffer through maybe a few things that are inadequately explained, I think that if you want to get into Pern, you should probably give Masterharper a shot before jumping into Dragonflight. You might really like it. And it will definitely help show you what more there is to Pern than dragons. -
... huh. by
on 2019-10-02 20:34:00 UTC
Reply
I think I might actually agree with this.
I really like 'Dragonflight', but have never been able to remember what actually happens in 'Dragonquest'. I have, however, always loved the Harper Hall (who doesn't?). So I agree on the general, if not the specifics.
I... think I've only read 'Masterharper' once, so I don't remember it well; but accepting the premise that it's good, I'd agree that it would be a great point of entry. It introduces Pern through the people, and gives the dragons a sense of awe before we get to know them so closely. That way, when you get into the Menolly books, or 'Renegades', that awe - and even terror - makes sense to you, rather than being a 'why would you be scared of them, they're cool' situation.
Definitelt don't go in via the other prequels. 'Moreta' is a beautiful book that spoils every later Timing story. 'Red Star Rising' (aka 'Eye') is maybe my favourite book, but totally disconnected from everything else. 'Dawn' and 'First Flight' should be read once you meet Aivas, and introduce the Todd prequels.
That said, I do feel that Anne's creative output peaked before the end. 'Dolphins' always bored me, and 'Skies' is... I dunno, it just feels disjointed. Maybe it's just too separate from the North for me.
(As for Dresden Files: my entry point was a random book in the middle, after which I went back to the start. I'd recommemd that approach: pick something like 'Summer Knight' to see what it will be, then drop back to the start in the knowledge that better is on its way.)
hS -
I don't think you're wrong by
on 2019-10-02 22:20:00 UTC
Reply
About McCaffrey peaking before the end, I mean. I haven't read Skies, but Dolphins clearly ends up in the... well, sort of in the B material, as it were. It's not like I dislike it, but it's not the best that's been done.
On the otherhand, Dolphins was published before Eye and Masterharper, which I loooove. So... well, maybe not.
As for Dragonflight... okay, I... the thing is... I... do like it. Sort of. My relationship with that book is complicated. There's a lot there that'd great, but it also just feels flawed, and just... not quite done yet. For a lot of reasons. I dunno. That's really just me.
But then there's Dragonseye. Which I really definitely have to re-read. The thing is, I remember reaally liking Dragonseye, but I'm worried that's just a result of the difference between expectations and reality.
Because I had been dreading reading Dragonseye. I thought it would be really painful for me to finish it. Why? Because one notable thing about Dragonseye is that it spends some time being written from the perspective of a Green Rider.
Pop quiz: You can only bring up one subject in fandom. Which do you pick to get a rise out of Thoth the fastest?
Answer: Green Riders in Pern.
The full implications are insane. And stupid. And McCaffrey didn't know what she was doing, definitely didn't think it through, and had some mental models regarding the subject that science has since shown to be flat wrong (And I suspect science had shown them flat wrong then too, but I don't want to judge). Any actual explanation for how Green Riders work (and, in addition, how there were so many of them in the several eras when girls weren't Searched) is an exercise in contortion and I can't think of one that isn't riddled with plotholes, scientifically inaccurate and implausible, just flat-out offensive, or all three.
Pern fans probably know most of what I'm obliquely referring to here but I'm not getting into it in depth because we'll be here all day if I do. Nobody needs another Rage Against The Green Dragons And McCaffrey from me, and the Pern fandom has collectively done a lot to try and patch over the many, many problems with what McCaffrey did when they write fan works. Well, the worst of them anyways.
But for the rest of you, suffice to say that this was my issue: Dragonseye was really the first time McCaffrey tried to write a gay character in Pern (they'd existed prior to this, we just hadn't seen much of them).
Why was I dreading this? because I emphatically didn't trust McCaffrey to do it!. Not well. Not as anything other than another stereotype... eurrgh.
But, as it turns out, I was wrong. P'tero and M'leng are more or less well-written, have a sense of personality, and just generally seem to be pretty solid characters.
And despite this being so minor and insignificant as to be essentially meaningless in the grand scheme of things, that kind of overshadowed the rest of Dragonseye for me. Sure, it didn't matter, but it was a big deal to me personally. Especially when I read that book—just as I was still coming to grips with my own sexuality.
Once again, I seem to have rather lost where I was going. Best to stop here, then... -
Oh, yes, I rememb-- SHARDS AND SHELLS! by
on 2019-10-04 10:40:00 UTC
Reply
SINCE WHEN IS THERE A NEW PERN BOOK?!?!
"Dragon's Code is a book in the Dragonriders of Pern series by Anne McCaffrey. It was written by her daughter, Gigi McCaffrey. Dragon's Code was first published by Ballantine Books in October 2018.
"In honor of the fiftieth anniversary of the Dragonriders of Pern series, Gigi does her mother proud, adding to the family tradition of spinning unputdownable tales that recount the adventures of the brave inhabitants of a distant planet who battle the pitiless adversary known as Thread."
!!!!!
Okay, so that's my news for the day... back to actually replying. ^_^
I remember the couple in Red Star Rising (I see the title was changed because the American publishers 'felt the book would sell better with Dragon in it', which makes sense, though RSR was kind of pitched as a followup to First Fall); they were... cute, I think? It's been a while. I remember primarily liking the book because of how well it portrays a society in decline, but not decay. They're losing stuff, but also forging new traditions.
Also, it does a great job of showing Bitra Being Bitra, which was mostly just told to us in other books.
... hmm, the wiki asserts that 'unconfirmed information' has RSR being ghostwritten by Todd, which makes a certain sense; it does have a different feel even to Dragonsdawn.
Anyway. I feel like Anne locked herself in with her original idea, which was that dragonriders were all some kind of polypan setup. Their promiscuity is frequently referenced in the early parts of Flight, and she quite clearly imagined that none of them cared a whit who they were with during a mating flight.
Which can make perfect sense, given that telepathic dragons are involved not only in the Search process, but in Impression itself. You just have an un-explicated criterion that a dragon will only Impress someone who's very open in their sexual orientation. Heck, you can even justify it on the basis that they have to be able to unconditionally love a dragon, which is a gigantic carnivore that will irrevocably take over their life. You need people who don't get hung up on this stuff.
Only she very quickly realised that she didn't want to write that. What she wanted to write was heterosexual near-monogamy. Which is why she created a female Green rider right out of the gate; why she gave Brekke her hangups (and arguably why she then killed Winreth); why she decreed that Only Mnementh Flies Ramoth; why she spent so much time condeming Kylara for doing... exactly what she initially claimed dragonriders do. &c &c.
And she never really improved on that score, even when she tried; even if P'tero and M'leng aren't Todd's work, they're still emphatically monogamous, and Skies of Pern... well, there's a subplot which can be summed up as 'female riders being forced to have sex based on their dragon's needs is kind of icky... but I'm nice, so it's okay'.
Seriously.
(I've just been reminded that there's a fairly charming gay couple in Moreta; I have vague memories of that but can't give any details.)
Anyway yeah: dragons. :)
hS -
By the First Egg! by
on 2019-10-04 14:31:00 UTC
Reply
Since almost exactly a year ago, apparently. Whaaat!
And it's a Ninth Pass book! About Piemur, spying down in the south! Whaaaaaat!!!
And it's not by Todd! It'll be interesting to see what a new family member does with the world. ^_^
From the synopsis, it sounds like it might be set about the time the Southern riders steal Ramoth's egg? I think Piemur was down south by then, and that's the closest we ever came to dragons fighting dragons, IIRC. I have no idea what Piemur could have to do with averting disaster at that time, though, since we already know what (and who) really saved the situation.
Maybe there will be some other setup, and the synopsis is sliiightly exaggerating the chances of battle erupting? I hope so? Much as filling in the spaces of established events is fun, and something I'll probably enjoy, and much as trying to wedge in a new disaster might be really awkward, I don't want Piemur's actions overshadowed by Jaxom's right out of the gate!
Well, we shall see.
~Neshomeh -
Sounds right by
on 2019-10-04 12:13:00 UTC
Reply
Sidenote: By no means, by the way, do I think that this is the most important element of Dragonseye. But because I read it at a very specific time and place it's what impacted me. Silly? Yes. It's rather unfair to all the other parts of Dragonseye, which I hazily recall being very good. I also can't do a thing about it.
But anyways, more on the subject... yeah. Pern has... a lot of problems with the way dragons work. Although, up to now, I didn't really think of commitment (to the concept) as one of them.
Maybe this is because I didn't quite get the same read you did. See, I never felt like polyamory was really on the cards. Dragonriders slept around a lot, sure, but it didn't seem like the series ever had any pretentions of setting up a real poly relationship. There was always going to be one primary romantic partner per character.
Which... is fine, I guess. The real problem comes in with McCaffrey's weird male/female double standards. The men sleep around. The women don't. Not usually. There are a few exceptions who aren't portrayed as evil, a bit further down the line... But not many..
So yes. Sooner or later if you have issues with something in Pern, it probably comes down to having issues with McCaffrey's worldview. Which most people do... -
Re. non-mongamous riders by
on 2019-10-04 15:00:00 UTC
Reply
Interestingly, Dragonsdawn goes some way toward trying to (re)establish non-monogamy among the dragonriders. There's a line somewhere in there about encouraging the golds to mate with as many of the bronzes and browns(!) as possible, to ensure a level of genetic diversity (which proves Anne was more sensible than Todd about genetics, at least). The riders might have their preferences outside of mating flights, but they are expected to put them aside to ensure the future of dragonkind. That expectation doesn't change down the years, though perhaps the need for gold dragons to be promiscuous lessens somewhat as the breeding pool expands. I'm not sure.
If they did remain promiscuous, though, the leadership of a Weyr would never be stable; there could be a different Weyrleader every Turn or less. Mating flights are kind of a really stupid way to determine the leadership of a Weyr, even allowing for dragon intuition choosing boys with the right potential as candidates and bronzeriders. Perhaps the idea WAS for golds to settle down eventually?
Also, I think the rumors about how promiscuous dragonriders get are greatly exaggerated, and more to do with the fact that they have relatively more sexual freedom than holders do. Holders, especially higher status ones, are expected to wed for said status, and to be monogamous to ensure the line of succession. They're also expected to have lots and lots of babies, which female dragonriders and weyrfolk are exempt from if they want to be. It's stated somewhere that women who are Searched often choose to stay in the Weyr even if they don't Impress for those reasons: sexual and reproductive liberty.
But, I agree with Thoth, I don't think the idea was ever that dragonriders tend toward polyamorous relationships. Serial monogamy and outright promiscuity (no serious commitment among flings), sure, but that's different. And, while it's accepted that you could end up sleeping with anyone based on the whims of your dragon, and that it shouldn't be a cause for jealousy, that doesn't mean it wouldn't be, especially considering the emphasis eventually placed on the fact that rider preferences DO influence dragon choice. You'd always have to wonder, wouldn't you?
Let's not forget that riders can sleep with willing non-riders, too. That's a thing. I'm not sure how it fits anyone's point, but it seems like it might be relevant somehow.
In the end, I figure dragonriders enjoy more or less the same spectrum of relationship types as the rest of the population, with or without exception for mating flights. Even if the rider population is more evenly distributed between hetero-, bi-, and homosexuality than the general population, that's a different spectrum. If McCaffrey had other ideas at the time, too bad, she was wrong. {= )
~Neshomeh -
Who leads the Weyr? by
on 2019-10-04 15:45:00 UTC
Reply
First off: sure, no polyamory, or no more than usual. My supposition is that Anne originally aimed for promiscuity, refined that into serial monogamy, and then realised she was only comfortable writing committed monogamy. She only pulled away from that a few times.
(My confusing use of the conflated 'polypan' was intended to indicate something of this sort, rather than pointing at specific source words.)
Now, on Weyrleaders and mating flights: did anyone else get the feeling during the early parts of Dragonflight in particular that the natural order of things was for the Weyr to be led by the Weyrwoman? They make a big deal of how useless Jora was, and Lessa both received lots of training in running the place, and rebels against the strictures placed on her by R'gul.
The idea here would be that, normally, the Weyrleader's role is limited to actually flying Thread. In that situation, most of his authority comes from his dragon anyway, so you'd absolutely want the strongest bronze in charge. It's just that Ninth Pass Benden was completely broken, so this was never instituted.
One key pointer to this is that the biggest historical name featured in Dragonflight is Moreta - a Weyrwoman, not her Weyrleader. She, like Lessa, was the one to take huge risks for her Weyr - not her associated Weyrleader.
Of course, if this was the idea, it went out of the window by the second book, which is all about Weyrleaders posturing while their Weyrwomen... I don't remember, mostly 'be old' I think? But I do wonder if her original intent was something a bit different to what we got.
hS -
That certainly seemed like what was going on by
on 2019-10-04 18:45:00 UTC
Reply
And while I can't speak for what McCaffrey wanted, I can say that Lessa doesn't seem to be less of a force than she was. Because even if she's not in the room, it's safe to say that F'lar is either consulting her or getting an earful. ^_^
But of course, that perception is based on those early books... -
Interestingly... by
on 2019-10-05 22:50:00 UTC
Reply
The Weyrwomen were definitively in charge in the Pern RP scene on Neopets back in the day. It was all organized around NP's guild system, and the Guild Leader position was almost always the Weyrwoman. I know this because I started up a Harper and Healer Halls guild, and I kept records. ^^ The old site still exists, if you want to go see the Big List of Weyrs on Neopets. (Beware, old Tripod site is old and uses frames, and might still have an embedded sound clip, too. *shudder*)
... Man, I had ambitions back then.
Anyway: Yes, I totally agree that was probably the original idea, because it's the only thing that makes any logical sense AND it works in practice. ^~ But even having your Thread-fighting leader change too often would be problematic, too. There's an argument to be made for giving your high-status members a fair shot at proving themselves to assuage egos, especially in peacetime when you have more leisure; and if you're shopping around for the right co-leader, sure; but during a Pass, once you find the right guy, I think you're better off keeping him!
Also, my recollection is that Sorka and Sean rose to authority because of their own leadership rather than their dragons'? And it seems to me that human leadership is the entire point of the dragon-human partnership. Humans might bow to draconic needs in matters of biology, but when it comes to strategy and politics, human intellect surely must take precedence over whatever social hierarchy the dragons would establish if left to their own devices. Or compromise with it somehow. The dragons are intelligent enough that you could probably convince them of the need. Failing that, a dragon's unconditional affection for their rider is a powerful lever, and ensuring the intelligent and harmonious function of the Weyrs and Pern at large seems like a good reason to lean on it.
Somebody write the Weyrs Remained A Matriarchy AU now, please! I understand why it isn't: society regressed quite a lot due to requiring most of its women to be baby-factories and little else (with some justice, since the colony faced extinction for a while and really needed all the warm bodies it could get), and then forgetting they could be more. But what if they'd avoided that regression? What would be different come the Ninth Pass? Could Fax have happened? Could any of the mainline books?
~Neshomeh -
Would much change? by
on 2019-10-07 12:20:00 UTC
Reply
(First up, I'm not sure if I've confused people: I think Matriarchal Weyrs was Anne's idea during the writing of Flight, but by Quest she'd decided they were patriarchal. So all later books, even the prequels, reflect the new idea, not the original one.)
(Secondly: oh that's an adorable website. I've just found a genuine early-noughts 'Some of these images are very large and may take a while to load' - for a page with four! whole! pictures! you utter fiend.)
So, Matriarchal Weyrs. Would much change? I'm not sure it would. The Holds have shown that they aren't much influenced by Weyr practices, so I feel like the Fax affair would probably still happen. His primary interaction with the Weyr was killing F'lon - but F'lon's Weyrwoman was Jora, and she was useless. Benden would have to run under its Weyrleader, which means we still get R'gul's ineffective reign.
The one thing that might change would be that a Weyrwoman would have been more open to trading for supplies, which I remember being the primary driver of the Hold Rebellion in Flight. If trade had commenced under Carola, say, then the Rebellion might never have happened. Given that it had no effect on the ongoing plot, though, I don't think that matters.
Lessa would still act much the same; R'gul wouldn't want her to assert her traditional role (and, in fact, I seem to recall that he didn't), F'lar would support her, we know how this goes. She'd still go on her Ride, and bring the Five Weyrs through.
Dragonquest is where things change. That's the book where the Weyrleaders Gonna Weyrlead setup really takes off, and they're... kind of... universally awful? T'ron is hidebound, T'kul is a flaming sociopath, T'bor is an impulsive F'lar fanboy... and we all know where this leads.
Instead, let's imagine the Weyrwomen stepping up.
-Kylara is in sole charge of Southern, which is... kind of terrifying and awesome. She flits between 'stuff you, T'kul, I'm taking your Weyr and fighting your thread' and 'meh, I'm off to canoodle with the Lord of Nabol'. The wiki already says that in her useless periods Southern 'looked to Brekke for leadership'; now picture that conflict with the full power of the Weyr at stake, instead of just food supplies.
-Mardra, Weyrwoman of Fort, wanted to stay in the North; she wouldn't let T'ron ruin that with his stupid duel. She was also a primary driver behind Fort's superiority, so a Lessa-Mardra conflict to mirror the F'lar-T'ron one is not out of the question. Remember that Mardra is a daughter of Ruatha, so this story drags Jaxom right into centre-stage.
-Merika, Weyrwoman of High Reaches and mate to T'kul, doesn't get much screentime, but the wiki says she shared leadership duties at Southern after the exile. She's clearly a strong personality. I'd lean into that and have her chain T'kul up like a rabid dog. ^_^ Maybe not, but you get the point: he'd be on a very short leash.
-What do we know about the others? Fanna of Ista seems fairly mild; Bedella of Telgar is called dim by Lessa. Do we know anything about Nadira of Igen? I think this will remain a Benden-Fort-HR-Southern story.
So, rather than the duel in Quest, we have Lessa and F'lar breaking tradition by acting as co-leaders; Mardra asserting her authority and even considering laying claim to Ruatha itself (I think she considered it in the book, and now she has even more power to play with); Merika being a conniving schemer; and Kylara as a fickle wildcard who could go either way on any issue.
... and Brekke, who at times is unofficially leading Southern. And who wants her Gold to mate with a Brown.
I'm picturing two core arguments in Book Two:
1/ Mardra is spending half her time at Ruatha 'overseeing' Jaxom's education. When Jaxom impresses Ruth, she asserts that since the Lordship of Ruatha now has no choice but to fall on a dragonrider, it should go to her, as she has the stronger claim. Merika supports her, because frankly she'd like to claim a Hold for herself. Kylara is neutral-leaning-Mardra, because "Southern is practically a Hold anyway" (they farm their own food, remember). And Lessa... well, Lessa a) resents Jaxom, and b) is convinced that he and Ruth are going to die soon anyway. So she decides that her best response is to press her own claim to the Lordship.
2/ Meanwhile, Brekke is running Southern while Kylara is playing politics. When Winreth rises, Prideth is nowhere around - but F'nor and Canth are, and Canth successfully flies the queen. Shockwaves run through all the Weyrs: the brother of the Benden Weyrleader (who is, ironically, being the voice of Tradition about Ruatha's lordship, putting him into direct conflict with Lessa) has flouted the oldest tradition of all! And it looks like Brekke and F'nor are attempting a coup at Southern (they're not, but Kylara's off in the North, and T'bor... let's have him injured by felines, that always works). This is nothing less than a hostile Bendenite takeover!
Where does the story go? I feel like 'dragon fighting dragon' is less likely than 'the Weyrs play politics'. Perhaps Merika pressures Bedella into extending Telgar's authority over Lemos Hold, stealing it (and its tribute) away from Benden? If Igen and Ista stand with Benden, I can also see Mardra siezing control over Ruatha and attempting a march on Igen, supported in a shocking twist by Nabol (hi, Kylara's influence). Heck, Merika might well decide that if Mardra can have Ruatha, she deserves to reclaim Fax's title as Lady of Six Holds and One Weyr. The dragons aren't involved in the fighting - they won't attack humans - but their riders are the ones moving the playing pieces around.
hS -
Oh, I'd figured on starting further back. by
on 2019-10-09 02:45:00 UTC
Reply
How much further, though, I'm not sure. The Eighth Pass, at least, but really you'd have to go all the way back. I'm talking about reshaping the culture and the history of an entire civilization here. Like, just for starters, if Pern remembers women can be more than baby-makers, you wouldn't have women falling out of the Crafthalls, so Menolly's story would be totally different; maybe not even a story at all.
Maybe the Holds would still end up male-dominated, but I think it would be difficult, especially if doing so would risk pissing off the Weyrwomen. (Who might just be called the Weyrleaders in this scenario? The rider of the dominant male dragon can be the Flight Leader or something, IDK.) This is why I don't quite see Fax happening in this world. The male genetic line becomes less important than quality leadership of either sex. Sure, you COULD still get someone lusting after power to the same extent, but they'd only have politics or all-out war as options; none of this marrying into power and then keeping the women pregnant and docile business.
... Though, eh, Hold governance being passed down the family line might go back to the original Charter? That might still be a thing, then. But you'd still have twice as many options for Holder-in-Chief, and the feasibility of marrying for power changes if both parties have an equal say in the arrangement.
I kinda even wonder if Pern doesn't decline at all. That's staking a lot on female agency, but... is it really? I'm pretty sure anthropology shows that more egalitarian societies are typically better for everyone, at least as measured by health and longevity. (Hey... aren't dragonriders typically longer-lived and healthier than holders even in Ninth Pass Prime?)
I realize my brain is making some leaps I'm not really supporting well right now, but I'm trying to save a little brainpower for beta work, so hopefully I've at least conveyed the general gist of what I'm getting at. ^_^;
~Neshomeh -
So let's save Emily Boll. by
on 2019-10-09 12:00:00 UTC
Reply
Pern was colonised under the command of Paul Benden and Emily Boll. Benden gave his name to the second Weyr; Boll got an insignificant Hold south of Fort. Seriously, does Southern Boll do anything? Oh, I see it gets a Lady Holder in Skies, big woo.
Dragonsdawn has Emily taken out of commission in a crash during the Second Crossing, and dying of fever a few years later without seemingly doing anything in between; Paul lasts, according to this timeline, another decade. As our simplest point of divergence, let's just flip that on its head: Paul Benden is injured in the crash, and Emily Boll takes centre-stage. I think they're about the same age, so we can assume she dies around the same time. Somewhere in between, Ju Adjai founds Southern Benden south of Fort - meaning that the first two major holds are both held by Lady Holders (and the third, Ruatha, is mostly famous for its connection to Weyrwoman Sorka).
The first big change is that Paul is presumed to have had at least one child and founded the bloodline of Fort, while Emily isn't known to have had any (makes sense, as men can have kids older than women can). So let's take that and run with it: the very first Hold will be inherited by someone unrelated to its Lady. Lord Holders in the Primeline are technically elected: with Emily pushing, that election would have some teeth to it.
And I think that would feed over to the dragonriders. Sean's frankly daft idea that the second Weyr should be led by whichever Queen first rises to mate gets overturned by Sorka on the grounds that 'Emily would never stand for it (you sexist pig)'. The riders vote for their Weyrwoman, and - crucially, in establishing the separation of powers - she will run the effort against Thread until her dragon rises and allows one of the bronzes a chance to prove himself the strongest.
In defiant honour of this decision, the second Weyr is naturally named Boll, and equally naturally, a Lady Holder is appointed to Boll Hold. There are 13 Major Holds dating to the First Pass; Tillek, Ruatha, and Telgar are known to have been founded by men, and in this timeline, Fort, South Benden, and Boll were founded by women. Lemos is an offshoot of Boll, so would presumably adopt its attitudes.
Of the six unspecified Holds, one (Bitra) is named for a woman (though not a terribly nice one); Ista was semi-founded by the selfsame Bitra, and ultimately by a group of four families. It wouldn't be surprising for them to have a Lady Holder in the first couple of generations, especially if the Weyr put its oar in. So we have a roughly egalitarian society in place by around the 30th Turn on Pern.
Of course, we know from history that equality is the first to go when times get tough, and is really easy for a tyrant to overturn. I think the technological decline is probably inevitable - a small population simply can't support high technology, particularly when fighting for its life. So things are on dangerous ground by the beginning of the Second Pass, just as in the Primeline.
What we really need to cement the changes is a firm response to that sociopath Chalkin of Bitra. My memory is that the Lords Holder hemmed and hawed about interfering with his autonomy - that sort of power-oriented thinking is classically masculine. Give us a few Lady Holders in the mix, and give Boll Weyrwoman Irene enough confidence to take Chalkin's unfair dealings to the Conclave earlier, and we have a strong precedent that 1) a Holder's obligation is first to Pern, second to their people, and third (and last) to the Hold and themselves, and 2) not working for The Common Good can and will get you taken out. (For bonus points, we'll appoint a woman in his stead: "Bitra has never had a Lady Holder, it's time to correct that.")
My worry is that despite all this juggling, it still might not be enough. All it needs is a Great Plague, and the argument that 'for the Common Good and the survival of Pern, women need to have as many children as possible' will gain possibly undefeatable momentum. To get rid of that, you need to establish a system where men and women play an equal role in raising their children - and from my memories of Dragonsdawn, I don't think Pern ever had that. Certainly those nutters down in Honshu didn't.
hS -
An important belated thought: by
on 2019-10-09 12:14:00 UTC
Reply
Paul Benden was an Admiral. However nice he was, at his heart he would have seen himself as commanding Fort. He passed that 'my ship, my rules' outlook on to every Lord Holder after him.
Emily Boll was a Governor. She would have viewed herself as responsible for and representative of Fort. Give that mindset to the others, and you end up with...
... dare I say, democracy?
hS -
Just a sidenote by
on 2019-10-06 00:20:00 UTC
Reply
Yes, you're right about Sorka and Sean. They were leaders before the dragons were introduced.
Nothing else to add, really. You covered all the bases.