So what's the next step?

Warning/Ban Discussion: Minh by Novastorme on 2019-09-02 18:06:00 UTC Reply

With my post in the below thread picking up steam, and given Akrinor's advice to move this into it's own thread to stop things getting messy here is my post on doing something about Minh's behaviour in the PPC Community pasted below:

"Can I make a movement here that Crazy Minh has repeatedly broken Article 11 of the PPC Constitution alongside breaking other Articles of the PPC Constitution in the past (the ones coming to mind are Article 2 and Article 3, along with a questionable breaking of Article 21 as the only discussion their posts generally seem to inspire are asks and pleas for them to stop). Given these cases and in line with Article 12 of the PPC Constitution may I make a suggestion that we as the PPC Community look into a potential partial ban for Crazy Minh so that they can healthily work out their problems as indicated in this and other posts away from the PPC Community (for example in the creation of a tumblr or other blog account). With the caveat that upon their return they will not devolve back to this kind of posting.

I personally have grown tired of seeing these posts appear with a semi-regular frequency and believe that with this being the (to my count) 5th individual time that this has happened within 6 months, something (even if it's just a formal warning) needs to happen, as this is not (in my opinion) healthy for the community).

Given that this is just to discuss action being taken I did not put this in a separate post but instead linked it to the post that has spawned this feeling for action with me. If this is meant to be made as a separate post then I am happy to do so.

Novastorme."

Now since I wrote this post there have been 5 people (Akrinor, Iximaz, Neshomeh, Mikelus and Cicada) agreeing that a Final Warning is sufficient, with Ix's Addendum of:

"With the addendum that if this happens again, Minh takes a break from the PPC to find a different community to rant to."

Which most of those going for the warning seem to agree with.

Conversely there appear to be 2 people (S.M.F and Mirage Fontane) who agree that some kind of ban should instead be placed upon Minh (I aplogise either of you if I've got it wrong and you want a warning instead).

Personally I feel like a ban would be more appropriate given that I feel like Minh has received warnings before about their behaviour and they seem to have ultimately ignored them (I guess making it 5-3 on the Warning vs Ban count).

I guess this is where it gets opened once again to discussion. What if anything should happen?

Novastorme

P.S. I'm not reading this as an actual ban thread where this sort of thing gets ultimately decided (or at least not yet). But more of a discussion thread for how people feel and what people think should be done, and what if any punishment (ugh I hate that word, but can't think of a better one) should be given out.

So what's the next step? by Novastorme on 2019-09-07 23:16:00 UTC Reply

So at the time of writing, this is getting bumped down the front page of the board at a reltaively quick rate, so I just wanted to try and follow up on what has been said here.

By my count there's 8 people who have said a Formal Warning, 4 people who want something done and are happy with a warning or a ban and 1 person who has said a temporary ban. Is this enough of a percentage of current PPCers to ask one of the PG's (or whoever it is that should do this) to start a thread to formally vote for a Formal Warning to be given to Minh (as that seems to have the majority at the moment)? And if not, should I just drop this for now? Or is it even enough of a percentage to just given Minh a Formal Warning straight off the bat.

I don't normally pay attention to how things like this start, so any suggestions and comments would help. But I do believe that something should be done and this shouldn't be forgotten.

Novastorme.

Purely for the record... by Huinesoron on 2019-09-13 17:04:00 UTC Reply

... the 'whoever it is that should do this' is usually considered to be the person who brought it up. Permission Givers are solely responsible for Permission; we're not mods, and don't have any more authority over people's behaviour than anyone else.

I would say that at this point, 12 people wanting a warning is probably enough to just pass it, rather than making a third thread about this. I would also say that just putting a warning in here, or perhaps in reply to Minh's post that sparked this, would be sufficient for issuing it.

(I mean, you'd think that the fact that there's been a whole thread about it would be taken as a major warning, but people can miss things sometimes, so it's probably best to make it explicit.)

hS

Thanks by Novastorme on 2019-09-13 22:20:00 UTC Reply

Yeah, I wasn't sure. But I think in the past the majority of people who bring this sort of thing up are PG's (I might be wrong given I'm going off of memory) so I thought I'd better check. I know PG's aren't mods I just didn't want to trip any unwritten rules I was unaware of.

Thanks. Like above this was mostly me just wanting to check (and also to record something at least semi-formally so that if (for whatever reason) something like this happens again, we've got proof of the warning).

As already said, I support a final warning by Akrinor on 2019-09-07 16:28:00 UTC Reply

Others have stated the reasons for that already, both Scape's case, and the argument of having a clean record.
My reasoning for a warning. by Neshomeh on 2019-09-04 03:58:00 UTC Reply

I think it's worth taking the time to set out in clear language exactly what our expectations are at this point, what will constitute not meeting them, and what will happen in that event. Having a clear record is never a bad thing.

~Neshomeh

I agree (nm) by Tomash on 2019-09-07 22:01:00 UTC Reply
I concur. by Scapegrace on 2019-09-04 13:23:00 UTC Reply

My reason being? It worked for me.

Veterans around here know I have serious anger management problems and could be... let's say strident in my attacks around here. It was not acceptable, and while I always apologized afterwards, that didn't make me hurt people any less. I got sat down and talked to and we worked out how to deal with my anger going forward.

There has not been a serious issue with my conduct on the Board in the two years since.

Talking works when all parties want it to work, and sometimes that's thrown around as a negative, implying that because it's not always true, it's never true. It was true for me, and if Minh wants to be a positive part of the community, I hope it is true for them too. =]

I must regretfully also support a final warning. (nm) by Granz the Ice Cream Monarch on 2019-09-04 03:58:00 UTC Reply
I support a formal warning. (nm) by Snowblaze on 2019-09-03 09:20:00 UTC Reply
Thoughts by Cicada on 2019-09-03 05:32:00 UTC Reply

I'd be quite happy with a final warning or with a ban. Either of those would hopefully resolve the issue quickly. As long as the threads stop, I'll be happy, even if that means tolerating one more. Since I think it's generally nice to give people a second chance, a warning would seem to fit.
I have a hard time believing Minh will take the warning to heart considering their responses to people telling them to stop. Even if they ignore the warning, though, I think we'll have built a better foundation for future discussion.

Seconding this approach/attitude. by S.M.F. on 2019-09-03 17:15:00 UTC Reply

I can go with either option.

Thirded. by Grundleplith on 2019-09-03 17:28:00 UTC Reply

If warnings have not been effective so far I doubt any more will.
At the same time I'd be content giving a final warning first.

No, Nova, you were right about me. by Mirage Fontane on 2019-09-02 18:10:00 UTC Reply

I vote for a temporary ban, since I agree with you that Minh has been warned about their behavior and asked to stop plenty of times already (with both the Discovery discussions and the swearing/inappropriate language).

Thanks for clarifying. by Novastorme on 2019-09-02 18:54:00 UTC Reply

I had typed it out and thought I'd better clarify in case you were voting for a final warning and I'd put you in the wrong group.