I like the second version.

Subject: I like the second version.
Author: Zingenmir
Posted on: 2019-11-14 18:00:07 UTC

I'm not on board with the first, because it seems odd to have people essentially populating the DoI with characters before getting Permission...but reports from outside? That sounds awesome. It would get more Intel reports written, anyone can write them, and there's still a clear distinction made to the effect that these are not agents (yet). It could also help people develop their characters pre-Permission request (or even just in general! Someone not planning to get Permission could do it as a lower effort/stakes writing activity!), especially with the inclusion of a narrative section. It'd also be a good way to see characters in action, get feedback on them...and make the PGs/community at large more familiar with the new agents when Permission requests go up/get granted!

...okay, turns out I'm even more on board with that second idea than I'd realized :D But, see, it's a non-RP format not requiring Permission...and there are definitely people without Permission who find, share, and analyze badfics! I don't know how quickly it'd take off, or how much, but I definitely like the idea of making it an option a lot.

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Recording Sues by SomeRandomPersonAccount on 2019-11-14 14:12:35 UTC Writing Reply

I know that I don’t have Permission( please don’t ban me Permission Givers), but I want to create a “record” or a “file” on some Sues for fun( and to assassinate them later).But I can’t seem to find any ways in creating one. So, do I make a regular charge list or a criminal record for Sues?

Lust objects? by SomeRandomPersonAccount on 2019-11-16 14:42:00 UTC Reply

One of the definitions of a “Lust Object” is a “Canon” character who makes a Sue/Stu want him/her. But must the Sue/Stu really, really , really want him/her? Like he wants her so much that he kills a bit character for slapping her?

Maybe not to that extent... (OLDBIES PLEASE RESPOND) by Neo Skater on 2019-11-17 02:23:46 UTC Reply

...but I think a Lust Object is anyone the Sue/Stu lusts over and makes one of the primary love interests.

That's a good question, though: Can there be two Lust Objects in the case of the forbidden LOVE TRIANGLE?

I don’t think that’s what I meant... by SomeRandomPersonAccount on 2019-11-17 05:34:00 UTC Reply

I don’t think that’s what I meant Neo Skater. What I actually meant is how do I tell whether the Sue/Stu really, really, really want his/her Canon character.

This seems to me like a strange question. by Neshomeh on 2019-11-17 06:05:04 UTC Reply
To me, the term "Lust Object" is self-explanatory: a Lust Object is any object of someone's lust. You can tell by a character's behavior whether or not they lust after someone and to what degree.

Let me ask a few questions to clarify yours:
1. Do you understand what lust is and how it differs from other forms of attraction?
2. Do you know something about how human beings commonly behave when they experience attraction, and what ways are considered appropriate?
3. Do you know something about how attraction, romance, and lust are commonly represented and misrepresented in fiction?
~Neshomeh

Thanks Neshomeh by SomeRandomPersonAccount on 2019-11-17 06:25:31 UTC Reply

Well, I guess murdering people for slapping your lust object isn’t very appropriate at all. Which actually may mean that the Stu is stalking his lust object.

Then there twilight had, never mind I will not talk about it because I stopped reading after the first chapter.

I see, thanks Neshomeh.

Possessions? by SomeRandomPersonAccount on 2019-11-15 16:26:23 UTC Edited Reply

A possession is when a Sue uses a Sue wraith on a Canon character, and turn him/her out of character. But how do I sort out which Sue possessed which Canon character if they are 5 Stus?

Note: I do not have permission. You do not have to tell me that I need permission to “spork” a badfic. I already know that and I am very aware of this. I am not sporking a badfic currently.

Good question. by Cassie on 2019-11-15 16:40:27 UTC Reply

I think it can be rather subjective; it can be difficult to decide if a character is possessed or outright replaced, and I think fairly often it depends on how badly out of character they're acting and how persistent the OOC behaviour is.

For example, Elrond talking about "ten companions" is probably possessed, but Elrond regularly abusing a member of his family is more likely to be a replacement.

(This is just my opinion though.)

Sorry my mistake by SomeRandomPersonAccount on 2019-11-15 16:52:44 UTC Edited Reply

Sorry my mistake. What I meant is how do to identify which Stu possessed which Canon character. There are about 5 Stus in a badfic I found, and I don’t know whether to put every single out of character canonical character under their name, or how to sort them out.

There seems to be some confusion. by Cassie on 2019-11-15 21:16:39 UTC Reply

In cases of possession, it's an author-wraith doing the possessing, not a Stu/Sue. All possessions are done by the author-wraith.

Well... by Neshomeh on 2019-11-15 21:24:53 UTC Reply

Not so much, anymore. The concept of author-wraiths has been more or less left by the wayside as we've focused on sporking the writing, not the writer. {= )

Instead, we have Sue-wraiths, slash-wraiths, generic wraiths, and a few special breeds that don't (and shouldn't) pop up much. For all your other explanatory needs, there's plain old bad writing and OOCness.

~Neshomeh

Oh, and, forgot to add: by Neshomeh on 2019-11-16 02:45:18 UTC Reply

If I understand SRPA's question right, the answer is that any possessing wraith would be a distinct entity from any embodied original character in the fic. If an OC is causing a canon character to act OOC, that's due to Suefluence, not possession. If elaboration is desired, these terms and more may be looked up in the PPC Terminology category of our wiki. Have fun! {= )

~Neshomeh

P.S. There's an exception to almost everything, and there is one instance I know of wherein what at first appeared to be an under-described Sue ended up being a wraith. It's my fault. I'm not sorry. {; P

I'm privately amused that the exception is one of the few Young Wizards missions. XD (nm) by S.M.F. on 2019-11-16 18:34:08 UTC Reply

Hah. I really have been away too long XD by Cassie on 2019-11-15 22:24:32 UTC Reply

I guess generic wraiths is what I was probably thinking of, then.

Welcome to a kinder, gentler PPC. ^_^ (nm) by Neshomeh on 2019-11-16 02:46:07 UTC Reply

It sounds like you might be looking for the Department of Intelligence. (PG opinion wanted) by Huinesoron on 2019-11-14 14:59:42 UTC Edited Reply

This page on the Wiki should show you what I'm talking about: DoI reports are usually fairly brief 'story' sections, followed by a 'record' of the kind I think you're describing. I'm a big fan. :)

As stories set in the PPC, they do currently require permission to write, but... hmm.

Any other Permission Givers, how do you feel about a specific exception regarding intel reports? Something like 'Permission is not required for Intelligence reports, provided that a) the narrative section takes place only in the badfic (not in HQ), and b) they are hosted on the PPC Wiki'?

The former provision should keep writers who don't know the PPC too well from making egregious mistakes, and the latter means, firstly, that they're extremely easy for the writer to edit if they're informed of a mistake, and secondly, that if someone starts abusing this power the stories can be taken down by the community.

I think this is a good idea, because it would provide a non-RP PPC writing opportunity for people who haven't yet gained Permission. I think that letting newbies write for the PPC in some way might well increase length of stay, likelihood of getting Permission, and stories written if they do. I think, given that Spies don't interact with the story very much, and the narrative section is intentionally short, this could be a good way to ease people in.

As an alternative, if there are unresolvable concerns with this: how about 'intel reports from outside'? Architeuthis mentions that she got her start by sending in a report to the PPC; people could write Intelligence-style reports where the 'narrative' section is of their prospective agent reading a fic, not being in it at all. If their 'help' leads to the Marquis extending a job offer [on the receipt of permission], well, so much the better. :)

Thoughts?

hS

I'd be on board (hah) with the second version as well. (nm) by Cassie on 2019-11-14 23:42:40 UTC Reply

I think that's a decent consensus, isn't it? by Huinesoron on 2019-11-15 08:39:42 UTC Edited Reply

At the risk of getting waaaaay ahead of myself, I'm going to create a wiki page for this (modelled on the Intelligence Reports page, and linked from there and Sue Reports). I guess it's just Badfic Reports? The name can always be changed if someone has a better one. I'll also throw up a mention on the Permission page.

EDIT: All these things are done. Here is the page, which includes a bespoke report template. :)

hS

Excellent. (nm) by Neshomeh on 2019-11-16 02:46:27 UTC Reply
Supporting this. (nm) by Hieronymus Graubart on 2019-11-15 15:51:24 UTC Reply

I also like the second version. by Neshomeh on 2019-11-14 19:22:03 UTC Reply

I mean, what you're describing there is basically a Sue Report (but not just for Sues), isn't it? Like back in the Good Ol' Days. {= D There's absolutely zero reason why anybody who wants to couldn't do something like that.

~Neshomeh

Actually yes by SomeRandomPersonAccount on 2019-11-14 19:51:50 UTC Reply

Actually that was more of what I had in mind when I asked. Thanks for telling Neshomeh!

Now I’m going to try writing one on paper.

I like the second version. by Zingenmir on 2019-11-14 18:00:07 UTC Reply

I'm not on board with the first, because it seems odd to have people essentially populating the DoI with characters before getting Permission...but reports from outside? That sounds awesome. It would get more Intel reports written, anyone can write them, and there's still a clear distinction made to the effect that these are not agents (yet). It could also help people develop their characters pre-Permission request (or even just in general! Someone not planning to get Permission could do it as a lower effort/stakes writing activity!), especially with the inclusion of a narrative section. It'd also be a good way to see characters in action, get feedback on them...and make the PGs/community at large more familiar with the new agents when Permission requests go up/get granted!

...okay, turns out I'm even more on board with that second idea than I'd realized :D But, see, it's a non-RP format not requiring Permission...and there are definitely people without Permission who find, share, and analyze badfics! I don't know how quickly it'd take off, or how much, but I definitely like the idea of making it an option a lot.

~Z
Quick question by SomeRandomPersonAccount on 2019-11-14 17:26:03 UTC Edited Reply

One quick question, can I ask a question?

If that’s a yes, is the comment section of the report used as a request for the agents involved in the Mission?

It can be. by Huinesoron on 2019-11-15 10:55:53 UTC Reply

That section (which is still there on the Badfic Report template) can be used for just about anything. I've mostly used it for extra notes that didn't fit the template, but anything written in-character will be fine. :)

hS

Thanks Huinesoron by SomeRandomPersonAccount on 2019-11-15 11:33:26 UTC Edited Reply

Thanks Huinesoron for answering my second question. I have found this report, where the spy gave the agents a specific set of instructions regarding the Sue in the “additional comments” section.

She, wrote that the Sue should not be assassinated, as long as she does not have Hobbit blood or become a ring wraith.

I can’t seem to find the link to the fic, because the link is missing in the wiki. However, I do know that the action agent was a horse named Alice and she was a floater.

You're thinking of Architeuthis' "Time Will Tell". by Aurora Morningstar on 2019-11-15 12:49:04 UTC Reply

It's here; it is linked on the wiki, but only from Agent!Architeuthis' page, not the Intelligence Report one, so I can see why you might have had difficulty finding it.

Thank you! (nm) by SomeRandomPersonAccount on 2019-11-15 12:54:37 UTC Reply

I’m kind of concerned by SomeRandomPersonAccount on 2019-11-14 15:12:34 UTC Edited Reply

Uhh, Huinesoron, I don’t think that I would really want to write a report if it needs permission. I rather have permission so that I don’t create something that’s very uncanonical.