Subject: That's interesting
Author:
Posted on: 2021-01-19 22:25:09 UTC
Thanks for the links 😚
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[NSFW] What are acceptable lubricants to write in a historical/period setting? by
on 2021-01-19 11:44:17 UTC
Writing
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This question has been bugging me for a while after I've browsed our wiki's dubelube list and many "things that shouldn't be used as lube" lists, with a variant including the usual saliva and cum. After all, what should be used in a setting where modern lube wasn't invented yet, or would just be out of place, that wouldn't squick the readers out?
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[NSFW] What about starch? by
on 2021-01-24 10:59:27 UTC
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Some websites recommend using viscous starch solutions as lube, but isn't that the same thing as using sugar?
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I dunno. by
on 2021-01-24 23:01:17 UTC
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I've seen cornstarch and water on a list, too, but that really doesn't sound like anything I'd want to try. I mean, starches are chemically different from sugars—more complex and less easy to break down—but when I think cornstarch and water, I think that's gonna be awkward if it starts to dry out. Possibly kinda gritty? And it's a non-Newtonian fluid, at least in certain proportions, so I wonder what happens if you go at it too hard. At least it probably rinses away easily?
But, honestly, I don't know. I'm gray-ace and unadventurous IRL, and I don't even cook with cornstarch much. Or any other kind. At least one clinical sexologist says it's okay, though, so... *big shrug*
This NSFW article, if anyone's curious: https://www.oprahmag.com/life/health/a32698546/natural-lube-substitute/
~Neshomeh
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I wondered about this recently, too. (continuing NSFW, obviously) by
on 2021-01-19 15:57:28 UTC
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The Internet seems to agree that the earliest known historical reference to personal lubricant is attributed to the Greeks of 350 BC. (Are we surprised?) They used olive oil. They also used leather dildos. And the two together. {= )
In China, going way back, they used carrageenan derived from boiled red seaweed.
And in Japan during the Edo period, they used a substance made from grated yams, called tororo-jiru. Also condoms made from animal intestines.
The sources I've found aren't the greatest, since they don't necessarily say precisely where the information came from in the first place, but here they are anyway (deliberately un-hyperlinked):
- https://www.salon.com/2015/10/14/4_outlandish_things_our_ancestors_used_as_lube_partner/
- https://swell.damewellness.co/the-history-of-personal-lubricant/
- https://www.condomdepot.com/condom-information/the-history-of-personal-lubricants/
- (ETA one more) https://www.menshealth.com/sex-women/a27017053/history-of-lube-sex/
I think common sense suggests that any commonly available vegetable oil or gel could plausibly serve as personal lube (unless it's known to be toxic or irritating). The only reason to avoid an oil-based lube is if you're using a latex condom, and that's not an issue for historical/fantastical cultures. Heck, anything commonly available and slick probably stands a good chance of being used for sex at some point. People like sex, people experiment, and people talk. If a thing works, word will get around.
~Neshomeh
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If we're being hypothetical, Potentially also consider... (NSFW, potentially gross) by
on 2021-01-20 04:11:49 UTC
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Grease, or fat. In any meat-eating society that postdates the invention of fire, those should be prevalent.
I haven't seen any proof this happened in an culture (searches were inconclusive), so I am guessing wildly right now. This form of lube seems to be common in a lot of fiction for some reason. I kind of wonder where the point of origin for that was, but it's besides the point. And just because it's in fiction doesn't mean it's plausible. However, this does actually seem reasonable. It's a slick substance that would have been in ample supply, so someone tried it at some point. Note I said "reasonable", and not "a good idea": These are animal byproducts and they can go rancid. Don't try this at home (obviously) and please wash yourself thoroughly after thinking about it. If you're a historical individual who needs some lubricant, I'd consider this ill-advised unless your society has high standards for hygiene. Then again, given some of the things that historical thinkers actually recommended as lubricant, maybe it's not so bad an idea... In short, avoid unless you bathe as or more often than the vikings, and even then I'd think twice. But there were quite possibly people out there who did it anyways.
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Also (video is SFW) by
on 2021-01-21 02:31:00 UTC
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An ingredient of Japanese washi paper is a gloopy substance called neri extracted from abelmoschus manihot (or tororo-aoi, even though it has no relation to yam) roots. It's unknown if it was ever used as lube.
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Yeah, "plausible" doesn't necessarily equal "good idea." {= ) [still NSFW and maybe NS4Moons] by
on 2021-01-20 16:37:31 UTC
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It's plausible that if a thing is remotely cylindrical, someone will attempt to insert it somewhere; and if a thing has a hole in it, someone will attempt to insert themself into it. There are many ER docs and nurses who can attest to that. >.>
So, do I think animal grease as lube has probably been done? Yes. But there are considerable downsides. First, as you pointed out, they're much more likely to go rancid quickly. (Vegetable oils will also go rancid, but not usually as fast.) Then there's the fact that most of them are going to be solid at room temperature and would require warming to be used. That's not necessarily going to stop anyone, but it does put a throttle on the action. And then there's the issue of odor. YMMV, but I don't particularly fancy the thought of smelling like bacon. {= P
There might also be religious or other social barriers to using at least some animal fats. Pork and beef spring to mind as likely to be taboo in some cultures.
It might be better to reach for butter, particularly clarified butter/ghee. It's more shelf-stable than regular butter and other animal fats, and has a less potentially offensive smell. (Ghee reminds me of popcorn butter more than regular butter.) Also, any culture that has domesticated herd animals probably has butter. At the least, I know you can make goat-milk butter. Dunno why you couldn't also make sheep butter, camel butter, horse butter, or butter from whatever else you may choose to milk. (I have now used the word "butter" enough times that is has lost all meaning and looks really, really weird.)
I wonder if all of this is more likely in northern climates, where there aren't as many options for plant oil/mucilage. Off the top of my head, there's flax in Europe and slippery-elm trees in North America? But flaxseed (a.k.a. linseed) oil is a) difficult to process, and b) not very stable, and I don't know the first thing about slippery-elm bark except that it has its name for a reason and is used medicinally as a throat soother. More research needed.
And I might even do it, because having a list of plausible lubes to offset all the dubious lubes seems like a good idea!
~Neshomeh
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That's a great idea by
on 2021-01-21 00:00:37 UTC
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It's high time we also have a "what can be used as lube (other than actual modern lube)" list on our wiki.
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I think I've done all I'm going to do on this. (still NSFW) by
on 2021-01-30 23:04:07 UTC
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The Dubious Lube page now has a heading called "So, What Can We Use?" with subheadings for Historical Lubes, Plant-Based Lubes, and Convenient Lubes.
If y'all come across an alternative lube that's convincingly documented as actually being/having been used by populations of humans, feel free to add it to the appropriate subheading. Include your reference(s)!
(It would be nice if we could find and reference the origins of the dubious lubes, too,
but many of them probably don't exist anymore. Sigh.ETA: Actually, both the LJ accounts linked from the page still exist. I'm surprised. I guess I just assumed they'd succumbed to drama like several other such comms. Huh! Guess I've got some archive-trawling to do.)~Neshomeh
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That's interesting by
on 2021-01-19 22:25:09 UTC
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Thanks for the links 😚