Subject: In terms of Discordians, I wouldn't oppose Thoth getting a Hat.
Author:
Posted on: 2022-06-21 22:38:39 UTC
He's been helpful throughout the years, offers good feedback when he can, and I did promise to work on coding in a randomised Permission prompt generator with him! I also just happened to make the cardinal mistake of promising two fic projects by Midsummer and so have not been doing anything PPC-related
It is now June 17, which, I believe, is the date set by Nesh. I’m copying and editing what Tomash wrote last time. Though I feel that we can combine the Nomination and Election threads, as the last “Election” thread just became a Plort discussion.
From Tomash:
Other things this thread should be used for include discussing the nominations and quibbling about electoral procedure.
Election for the position of Permission Giver is by consensus. To keep things straightforward, nominations that appear controversial will not be getting on the ballot.
There's no fixed number of winners; we can elect as many or as few people as we like. We could (and in the event there turn out to be no good candidates, should) pick no new PGs at all.
Both the nominations and voting will remain open until the thread settles down (about a day or two of no activity) or for one week, whichever is longer. A new thread will be created if an active election-related thread falls off the front page.
To formalize the process a bit, I propose the following: In the vote, you need to have a score of at least +10 points to get elected. Votes in favor give you +1 point, votes against give -4 points (to penalize controversial candidates), and not having an opinion/abstentions is worth 0 points. (This roughly matches the structure of how Delta and Maslab were elected.)
If anyone has objections to any of the above of proposals for different ways to do it, please reply with them.
How to nominate someone:
Simply reply to this thread saying who you're nominating and for what. It would be a good idea to explain a bit why you're making that nomination, but that isn't strictly required.
If you're nominated, you need to affirmatively accept the nomination. Otherwise, I'll assume you don't want the job.
You can't nominate yourself.
Qualifications:
Permission Givers, per the wiki, "know the PPC well and are widely trusted to be sensible and fair. They tend to be members who have been around for several years, and may also be older than the average Boarder, but not necessarily".
Hopefully I'm not bungling this dreadfully.
—Ls
It has been a week, and unless anyone has a brilliant new nomination or serious reservations, I think we have our Permission Givers, as tallied here:
*Lily Winterwood, with at least 15 votes
*Kittyauthor, with at least 13 votes
*Thoth, with 15 votes
Congrats, everyone! I believe hS gives out the hats.
—Ls
I can just about stump for a sheet of newspaper each to fold into one, if our new PGs don't mind ink on their fingers.
I agree with closing the election - I think the results are pretty clear, and eight days is plenty of time to get the nominations in. So I am delighted to confirm that Kittyauthor, Lily Winterwood, and Thoth will be doing all the work from now on and letting me go back to sleep. >:D
Team PG - welcome aboard! It's a pretty quiet task these days, but make sure you check up on the current Permission Request guidance - we changed it a bit not too long ago. Don't be afraid to give your view - and if you're not sure, don't be afraid to ask other PGs to chip in.
And now I'm going to hand over to someone, if anything, even more pompous than me.
~~~~~
Fondest greetings to the newest barons of this Protectorate of Plort! By the will of the people, you have been inducted into this most prestigious order. You are heirs to Jay and Acacia themselves, protectors and leaders of this fortressed isle of Konti-Nyuum.
As is known to all, Bast, the last of the first barons, created ere her departure an Edict, by which the succession of the baronies shall be known. Though it has at times been set aside (and here Baron Huinesoron gives a long, hard look at Barons Neshomeh and Storme, seated across the grey council chamber of sea-circled Otik), it is the surest guide we can have; and in this Age of Storms we must adhere to the truths of the past even as we lead our armies to the future.
Let it be known that Baron Thoth will take command in what was once Barony PC, in the Western Diskord and Borrd. Likewise shall Baron Math be granted the lands once claimed by Larfen, in the Riding and Eastern Diskord; and the assumption of the reins of Barony Phobos by Baron Storme is (he sighs) confirmed.
The Wandering Winterwood - no, take the crown off - is granted...
(Baron Huinesoron stops and stares at the map)
Seriously? I'm supposed to run a barony when the two halves are connected by literally just a road? That's absurd, that's-- if I'm taking over Barony Hieronymus, why don't I get the Fanvik Whirl? Neshomeh has never even set foot in that castle!
Fine. The Wandering Winterwood is granted the eastern plains of Borrd, and lands in the Riding betwixt Godreve and the river Jid'auks. The road from Eksoeva via Godreve to Goch't shall form the boundary between baronies Winterwood and Na'Shirah, but shall be subject not to either, but to Barony Huinesoron. Which makes no sense, but... whatever.
((Phew! I got the map to make sense, and made Baron Me look silly. I'm not sure if there's already a name for Plort Thoth, so name subject to change. Not sure also how Kitty's barony should be named - "Barony Wizard of Math" is a bit clunky. And the map was assembled before I checked all the names, so it will have a few errors. But yes, baronies! Go built daftly-named castles in your own honour.))
hS
Larfen was killed and their position usurped in a revolution led by and consisting only of Baron Soap, so you might want to incorporate that into the graph.
(In real life, Larf came out as trans and changed her screen name to Soap. But her bit at the time was that she had killed that weak fool Larf, so indicating that somewhere on the chart would probably be funny.)
I assume this happened while she was still in the PPC (Discord, I guess)? Assuming that, I'll try and update the graph, and I guess the PG page on the wiki.
hS
Anyhow, Soup is occasionally active on the Discord from what I noticed. So, she is still semi-active in the PPC.
Which mean I need to find new land for my not-quite-a-castle lol.
-kA, currently playing ACNH
Just "Soup"? I'm asking because she wasn't officially just "Larf", so I want to check.
I'll look at the map tomorrow probably; are you more on the chat or games side of the Discord? (Asking cos that's how the country is split in Plort, not because it actually matters or is even a divide.)
hS
Because the in-Plort reason is the knights on the Gamer side forbid me from entering there.
The actual reason is because I can't join Voice chat because my phone is dumb lol.
-kA
And I don't believe they are actually active anymore. At least, I haven't seen them in quite a while.
According to the Discord backlogs, she was last seen in December saying, and I quote, "theyve made amongus real!!!!!!!!!!!"
She did pop in here on the Board in January, though. I think? It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure.
Oh well, my brain is clearly fooling me lol. There must be some other person I'm confusing Soap with.
I apologize. I honestly thought she was semi-active.
-kA
Last I recalled, the Soap formerly known as Larfen last posted to the Board explaining something about Harry Potter vis-a-vis the Blacklist. I could be wrong, though.
(Hopefully the naming bit there isn’t offensive; I do know that Soap was mostly posting to Discord under that name so searching the Board for her current name won’t be effective; hopefully this clears it up in future searches!)
That was back in January 2022, and featured the words "I uh. Haven't even gone by Larfen in a while." Previous posts in September 2021 are also as Larfen, with no indication of a change. Prior to that we're at the 2021 Shipfest when she was running under they/them (as Larfen).
Which means we're in a situation where someone's latest chosen name may have only existed for four months, appears nowhere in the permanent record, and in fact they reverted to using their previous Board name when posting to said record after the change, with no mention of the change. I'm not really comfortable changing the Wiki (which has a userpage as Larfen!) & my reference chart to something that nobody who wasn't on the Discord in a ~3 month period at the end of 2021 will ever be able to recognise.
hS
But yeah, roller coaster. Wow, I really wasted time searching “Soup” on the Board.
—Ls
... I have graphs. ^_^
(Imgur)
This plot shows the "chain of authority": who granted Permission to each PG. Jay, of course, gave Permission to the most PGs - the three who she then appointed to make decisions in her stead, and most of the ones they appointed in turn. Since then we've spread out across the chart, always going back to Jay (Acacia never really got into the Permission game, it seems).
By this chart, I would describe myself as a third generation PG, or indeed a third-generation PPC writer. We are currently in the fifth generation, with both Kittyauthor and Thoth falling there; and anyone granted Permission by a 5th Gen PPC writer sits in the... do we have a Sixth Generation yet? I think it might consist, in its entirety, of Damian Thorne, granted Permission by Larfen in 2020. (SillyPhilly is the only other Larf/HG Permission Granted I can turn up.)
Amusingly, given my history, I'm the only PG given Permission by Bast; most of our current PGs trace their Permission through Miss Cam. (The big exception is Lily, who sneaks in as an heir to Leto, and enters at the third generation.)
After a bit more work, and a fair bit of guesswork, I also have a chart of where we all got our PG authority:
EDIT: Over on Imgur since it's ugly and confusing to look at.
I'm pretty sure that Bast was the one who appointed the intermediate PGs, but it could have been Miss Cam. Likewise, it's a guess that Araeph closed the first two elections. And to be honest, the later elections were under Board authority, and sometimes closed by consensus or by non-PGs, so those bits are a lie interpretation too.
But there it is, if you want it. Our new PGs are all in the vastly oversized fifth generation by this reckoning, but honestly I prefer the first graph. :)
hS
It kinda reminds me of something my church does to trace our priesthood lineage. coughs
Anyway, if we’re going by the first chart, then I guess I have fourth-generation Permission—as Nesh granted me Permission. Not a PG, though. And as for later elections, I did open and close this one.
Regardless, those are some shiny charts.
—Ls
Are there multiple churches which do that? I have an LDS priesthood lineage around [waves vaguely] somewhere, or maybe totally lost by now, and I confess I've not run into the concept elsewhere (most religions are too old...!)
hS
Well, I’m LDS, and I have no idea if other churches do that. I might have mine...somewhere? I can’t remember where. (If you’re comfortable, might I ask whether it’s your lineage, or someone else’s...?)
—Ls
Joined around 2005/6, wandered away... eh, 8-10 years later? Time is a scam so I don't really know.
I actually have a handful of LDS characters rolling around as PPC bit parts. Jared, Ether, and Moroni Calinson are kind of obvious, and Moroni's wife Sara is a convert (or, er, will be, since she's at least a decade away from being born). Deborah Perbur is too (she mentions it obliquely in there), or again, will/would be; I think she and her brother picked it up from their dad. Given that she's a dark magician from a morally ambiguous canon, I'm not sure you necessarily want her on side. :D
hS
I actually know someone named Moroni, which is...something, I guess.
If I ever yielded to temptation and turn that graph into a Religions Boarder AU, early Church history would absolutely be the basis of it. The initial schism gives the Cammites, the Temple of Bast, and the long-lost Thalians, along with a slew of minor sects; the Cammites grow and fragment, with the Cult of Araeph becoming dominant, while in the hinterlands Huinesoron takes control of the Fundamentalist Temple of Bast the Grey Lady. And now Lily has emerged claiming to have had a vision of Leto, disciple of Bast, instructing her to found her own faction...
But I'm pretty sure I'd get in a lot of trouble turning PGs into cult leaders - even more than I have for making us feudal nobles - so I won't. :D
hS
Amusing.
—Ls
(I did briefly appear in Plort when I was helping Nesh fixup the TOS archives etc...)
"My dear Sir Knight, have you heard that there is to be a new baronial seat built in the Eastern Plains?"
"I have not," said Sir Knight to his companion, for, by his last estimation, the Eastern Plains had been within the lands of Baron Huinesoron.
His companion laughed, all too happy to indulge in the latest on dit. "Well, I have heard the matter from a denizen of Borrd, that the Wandering Winterwood has returned and was made Baron of the Eastern Plains of Borrd, with additional lands within the Riding."
Sir Knight frowned. "...I do say, was she not a Baron before? But she has been a Dame of Plort for so long!"
"Apparently not!" Sir Knight's companion turned their face towards the sea, taking in the ships to Weab coming and going in the harbour. "After all, one could not be named 'Wandering Winterwood' without some predilection for wandering, and she had been long gone before any thought turned towards granting her a Barony. But she is known to many of the current Barons, even having been in the company of Baron Na'Shirah for some time, whilst she was still Knight Eshakhar."
Sir Knight nodded. "I am aware of her meritorious service to Plort," he said, "and her exploits with the regiments Eye of Aicheff and M'Bessfah, the latter even briefly rendezvousing with Ofum itself. But what else has she done in the years since her departure? And what of her former page and companion?"
"I heard her erstwhile companion was lost at sea," said his companion gravely, "or they sailed on different ships to Weab, and thus drifted apart."
"So, are you suggesting, my dear," remarked Sir Knight, "that the new Baron Winterwood is a mage in possession of a great fortune, who may be in want of a companion?"
"Great fortune, perhaps," agreed his companion, "for she has gained renown in Weab, in the lands of Ayohtree, even engaging for a time in the creation of Fanzeens. But as for a companion, I was told that after the loss of Intell she has not travelled with another."
"That does not preclude her perhaps being in want of another," Sir Knight pointed out. "Is she to keep to her new baronial seat this time? Or is she to spend more time in Tumblar, on ships destined for Weab?"
"Time will tell," declared his companion, now steering Sir Knight from the docks towards a confectioner's parlour specialising in newfangled iced treats. "Perhaps upon the completion of Elestianne Park, we could pay her a visit."
((Casually marrying the medieval setting with a smidge of Regency, because ofc the Wandering Winterwood would wander off and come back with scandalous new ideas.
Fanzeens = fanzines. They've made a major resurgence in fandom-at-large as professionally-printed fan anthologies and art books with accompanying merchandise, which run the gamut of "being supported by showrunners" to "absolute scams involving fraud and embezzlement". I got involved in a bunch in 2017-2018, all of which were not scams, thankfully. Idk what exactly they are in Plort, though. Grimoires?
Also, I went digging on my Tumblr and found: a drawing of the WW and Intell!
But yeah, in between school and fandom drift…))
Plort!me has only just heard the news. She has been attacked and wounded by a flock of insane corvids, and has been holed up somewhere, recovering.
If I recall, Plort!Me was last seen escaping on a Ypur named SamUnwise after a confusing betrayal, so this could be interesting. And if he meets Plort!Bookworm, it will not be good for him.
—Ls
but you guys are welcome to respond to it as an RP if you want.
But! No fear, hS, for I have just made hats! The PGs can most certainly keep their newpaper hats if the do so wish, but behold!
digs around Gimme a minute. It's buried underneath my Plort stuff, including my now-outdated Shield of Swords and Wands. Gah.
Ah-ha! Behold!
((Apologies for the size >_<))
A hat! A hat made just for PGs! Why there is a fishing rod with a noodle on it, I have no idea, but it's here! Disappointingly, I did not have enough material for all PGs, so I made only three, for the three new ones. So, without further ado plops own hat onto head, let's figure out my barony situation.
I personally think Baron Math would work. As for my castle... I have to get back to that. I'm not certain of what type of castle I want just yet.
Nonetheless, thank you, members, for electing me PG!
-kA, who is kinda stumped on what else to say right yet.
(Edit: The DoRD called and told me to remove a duplicated point. I have. Also, spelling.)
...a sticker that says “Not Angry” on it. Not really sure how to draw it, though.
—Ls
I vote for Lily, Thoth, and Scapegrace if she accepts.
I'm not against Kittyauthor becoming a PG, but I would personally like to see them show a little more forethought and certainty in their posts before I'd be totally happy giving them my vote. A PG needs to be pretty sure of what they're saying before they commit to it.
On Scapegrace, I've worked with her as a beta often enough that I'm confident she can moderate her tone to fit the situation. While she does have her issues, few of us don't, and she's come a very long way from when she first joined us. I respect the work she's done on herself, and her expertise on the craft of writing is not to be sneezed at, either. {= )
I think I've been clear on my support for Lily and Thoth, but I'll add that I am all for you guys believing in the me that believes in you. ^_~
Also, I totally would have voted for Calliope and would be very happy to see "PG audition"-type activity from them going forward, if they're interested.
~Neshomeh
Lily, Thoth, kA.
(edited for less ambiguous language)
Sorry for taking so long, I was under the impression this was purely a nominations thread until last night.
I vote for Lily Winterwood, Thoth, and Kittyauthor.
I vote against Scapegrace, for the reasons Lily outlined better than I could have.
—doctorlit
Moving my vote count list up for better visiblity.
Active Nominations (aka people who have accepted their nominations):
Lily Winterwood
Kittyauthor
Thoth
Conditional Nominations (aka people who have not yet accepted or declined their nominations):
Scapegrace
Zingenmir is marked with ??? because her comment is not clearly a vote at present.
Let me know if I've missed anyone. I will try to update this post as more votes come in.
Update 15:15 GMT 23/06/22: Added Tomash's additional vote for Thoth.
Update 23:37 GMT 23/06/22: Added Neshomeh's votes.
Update 1:01 GMT 24/06/22: Added Scapegrace's declination of her nomination.
Update 12:11 GMT 24/06/22: Added Iximaz's additional vote for Thoth.
Update 23:37 GMT 24/06/22: Added Vioven's additional vote for Thoth.
I’ll add that I don’t know Thoth well enough to vote for him, so I’m abstaining.
—Ls
I will vote without reservation for Lily Winterwood, Kittyauthor, and Thoth for PG. Lily and Kitty have done a lot in the last few weeks that looks good, and while I haven't seen Thoth around much of late, what I remember was good.
I am also conditionally voting for Scapegrace, with the condition being that she accepts the nomination. ^_^ I know Scape is self-aware enough to be truthful about whether she should be a PG, so if she accepts the nom that's proof enough for me.
hS
doctorlit; I don't trust my ability to judge the other candidates.
Thoth and kA both get my vote with no hesitation, while Lily gets a slightly hesitant vote only because I don't quite know her as well (though she does seem like a lovely person). Scape is someone I greatly respect on both a personal level and through her writing, though for the same reasons that Lily has outlined I can't give her a vote without reservation. Provided Scape accepts the nomination, I'll hold off on voting either for or against her until she weighs in on these concerns.
I'm going to throw my support behind Thoth, Scape (should she accept), and KA.
I just posted this in the reply where it was initially brought up, but I am also declining my own nomination.
I'll throw my support behind Lily, kA, Thoth, and Cal, though lesss certain about Cal than the other three. I'm not so sure about Scape, unfortunately, and I can't really articulate why. (Also, my apologies for not checking in earlier - I find the Board 's formatting hard to follow.)
From the Discord:
Umbre (sercretly money?????): After looking over the thread to the extent of my spoons I vote for kittyauthor and thoth My reasons for this are that they are cool and to my knowledge good at writing things
-kA
Which would be Kittyauthor, Lily Winterwood and Thoth at the moment.
Source comments:
Scarlett, resident bi idiot: I vote everyone who signed for PG says the person who's too lazy to sign in on her phone
Genderplasma Time! (kA): How do you mean?
Scarlett, resident bi idiot: I'm leaving where I have wifi soon and I can't sign into the board because no internet connection. Sorry!
Genderplasma Time!: No, I mean about the signed for PG part. As in, everyone who accepted PG nomination or everyone who is nominated?
Scarlett, resident bi idiot: Everyone who has accepted yeah
-kA
Note that these numbers include the intial nomination vote.
¹ Zingenmir has said that Lily and kA "seem like fine picks" but has not said anything more specific. I'm not sure whether that counts or not, so I provided both numbers. Ix, although not under the nominations, has seconded kA and Lily.
² Lily has noted that she has reservations about making Scape PG, but I can't tell if that's a no vote or not. Both numbers are provided just in case.
One or two more votes would give Lily the hat, giving us our second 2022 PG (and our first 2022 PG to be elected PG), as long as no one has any reservations.
Hoping this helps because the thread is kinda messy/long-ish, and I think some people would like to see clear numbers.
-kA, who had to recount Lily's six times to get the right number, but that might be because they woke up forty minutes ago.
If I'm counting correctly, the current tally is:
Scapegrace has 3 votes, but has not yet accepted or declined her nomination. I view my current concerns as more of an abstention than a vote against, especially since Scape has not yet responded to them or accepted/declined the nomination. Additionally, in a previous election, Scape declined to be nominated, so I would find it unfair to foist a Hat onto her before she even has the chance to express her thoughts on being nominated this time around.
Feel free to correct me! I'm worried I might have double-counted someone's vote.
That would make 9, 10 if we count Z's "good pick" comment, for kA at least.
-kA
(Edit: No, wait, I can't count lol. There was actually a study in human counting and how often humans are off by tens at times. Humans, in general, sometimes Suck At Counting lol. The point is that it's still 10, 11 if... for kA.)
For Lily Winterwood, we have:
ETA Ix seconding Lily, because whoops again!
ETA2: Moving Nesh's not-quite-vote out of Lily's tally. Though Nesh has approached Lily about PG-dom in the past, that could have changed in the time since. 😜
ETA3: Updating to include Silv's votes.
We've got less people around than we did four years ago, and a lot of the people on your Discord Active list haven't posted here, so that cuts the numbers further. What we're really looking for is people who are getting a lot of positive reactions, and no or few negative ones. Right now that's you and Lily, but there's no reason Thoth, Calliope, or other yet-unnominated people couldn't get more votes.
(This sort of trickling in of nominations is a good argument for a separate voting thread, for what it's worth; the later nominees are sitting at less votes partly because nobody has come back to place them. Lessons for next time.)
I think we can count doc out, given that he's basically declined (though I tried to decline my election back in the day, and was told I couldn't). Scape would need a bunch more votes (like Thoth and Calliope), and would probably need to address Lily's concerns in person, but that's perfectly possible.
Does anyone (looking at you, Kitty) know if the Discord people from your list are deliberately not voting, not aware of the election, or just haven't found the time yet? Any of those are fine, but it would help to get a feel for how long the thread should run.
hS should probably vote soon
But not everyone is in all the time and not everyone sees everything. So it's hard to say. We might want to put out another reminder maybe?
I know some of the people on my list (Voyd and a couple others. I can't exactly recall who at the moment) have stated in the past that they don't interact with the Board/rarely interact because either it's intimidating or other reasons, but mostly (I think) intimidating...
Actually, looking back in the backlogs (as in, this was a while back (May 17, 2022). Things could've changed.), Voyd, Umbre, and Badger all mentioned that they didn't post on the Board in a while, with Umbre specifically mentioning that she's bad at keeping up with messaging boards. Badger noted that it takes more spoons (energy) to post on the Board than on the Discord, and I noted it was the opposite for me, but I also had to go onto Discord in private. So, at least three have difficulties with the Board, though through no fault of any member.
So, three members, that I know of, might not vote. That brings it down to... 29 active members.
-kA
(Edit 2: Added date to "a while back.")
Unless they actually don't care who gets the authority to decide who gets Permission. Which is allowed, I suppose, but makes me sad if true.
~Neshomeh happens to know the link to this thread is pinned in Discord, too, but has no idea if anyone checks pins.
There's no button for it, unless I put the website in Desktop Mode, but that's annoying and it crashes Discord a lot.
I think maybe other mobile users might be in the same boat? I don't know how the app works, tbh.
-kA
when you view the members list in mobile mode. It should be right under the channel name and description.
Thank you!
-kA
(Edit: I think it's worth noting that I'm personally using the website Discord on mobile, and thus probably have a different screen than in the app (probably). However, I can work around it and see the pins without crashing Discord. Also, didn't they discontinue mobile site support?)
Cal has been a fairly active member over on the Discord (I forgot to list them in the Discord Active Users, apologies!) and is extremely helpful and knowledgable in PPC matters. They have beta'd for me in the past and provided great concrit that wasn't too harsh nor too hard to understand.
I personally think they would make a great PG, especially because of the above.
-kA
Maybe in the future I'll be willing to take on the responsibility, but I haven't even touched the canon PPC... literally at all in at least a year. Reading or writing.
I'm happy to provide advice and concrit, but I won't be that final arbiter.
As per his agreement here.
They’re so...shiny. And the SO is pretty cute there.
I don't really know how to organize all my thoughts on why Scape should be a PG, but most importantly? Scape knows a hell of a lot about writing in general and the PPC in specific, is very good at communicating specific points about why a piece is or is not good, and for all the issues she sometimes has with her temper? I don't see her acting unfairly very often at all. Blunt, scathing, sometimes insulting - all of the above - but not unfair. And I've frequently seen her working with people who may not be very confident in their work, offering very honest, detailed constructive criticism as well as suggesting ideas that could be added, and in my book, that's possibly the best way you can truly help someone become a better writer.
Whatever your reasons, whatever your motives, I do not want this position. Pick someone who actually deserves it and who doesn't have my issues. Pick someone who hasn't got a capital-P Past when it comes to disciplinary issues within the community. Pick someone else.
Literally anyone.
At all.
Are you okay? Because you doesn't sound all that okay.
hS
I just wanted to be clear.
But then, I'm never wholly okay. There's normal stresses and strains. There's my hip sucking. There's my mental health issues, which at this point are collected in leather-bound hardbacks. I'm coping but I'm not okay.
I think I wouldn't have accepted even if I was.
Tone is difficult, and you could have been anything from furious to traumatised to, well, just being clear. :)
I'm sorry that things have been so stressful; I hope that the PPC is still playing some part in helping you cope.
hS
For that reason, I’ll abstain from voting.
—Ls
I'll preface this with the fact that I do enjoy Scape's writing, and I love her way with words, her comedic timing, and the quirks of all of her characters. My favourite characters that she has written are the Notary and Bogbrush. The Notary is an excellent foil to the other Time Lords, and Bogbrush's physicality wrt his Sue Tracker issues have always been a joy to read.
That being said, being a good, or even a great writer does not necessarily mean someone is a good critiquer for beginning writers, who are the people in direct contact with Permission Givers. I have no doubt that Scape is a great beta for people who are already Permissioned, but I worry about whether or not her critiquing style may come across as too harsh for prospies. This is not a judgement on Scape's writing ability or her as a person -- not everyone has the ability to guide beginners, nor should we expect everyone to. But a Permission Giver is offering constructive criticism to beginners, and thus I do not believe the position to be a good fit for Scape.
You yourself mention that she can be acerbic and insulting, and I simply do not believe that to be a good fit for the average newbie. Once again, I do not doubt that she can give great concrit to more experienced writers, or at the least writers who have already passed muster by getting Permission. But just as not everyone wants a doctor with a wisecracking, sarcastic bedside manner, not every prospie will be able to handle Scape's concrit, and I am under the impression that this community is trying to move past being misunderstood as bullies. (Again, not accusing Scape of being a bully. I just worry that people may misunderstand her intentions unless they have had more experience with her.)
Perhaps I will be proven wrong. But with my current understanding, these are my reservations in nominating her. And since Nesh suggested I be the Not Groupthink-y person, here I am trying to be honest. Being a PG is not some sort of indicator that someone is the Best Writer Ever -- it is a responsibility to help mentor beginning PPC writers by offering concrit on their Permission Requests, and the judgement that PGs give can change entire spin-off trajectories. Scape does good work, and writes well, and interacts with people pretty well. But that still doesn't guarantee that she is a good fit for PG.
ETA: To address more specifically the "working with people who may not be confident about their writing": Scape is a tough-love sort of beta. I can respect that. I also believe honesty is best when it comes to beta reading and concrit! But once again it comes down to bedside manner for me. Scape does great with people who go out to seek her advice, because those people are prepared to take her advice in the way she presents it. I worry about prospies who may be expecting concrit in a less tough-love manner getting blindsided.
I will say that I think Scape has improved a lot in this area. However, it's still very understandable to be concerned.
and her ability to offer honest feedback. I just worry there will be misunderstandings with newbies due to Scape's preference for tough-love concrit-giving. It's not for everyone, and PGs as a whole... handle everyone who wants in on the sandbox.
Again, I could be proven wrong! And the best way to prove me wrong is if Scape tries offering feedback on recent/future Permission threads -- my own feedback on recent threads contributed to my nomination. But from where I'm standing, these are my concerns.
If we aren't wedded as a whole to needing three Permission Givers from this election cycle, we could hypothetically vote for one or two now and then get the rest in a couple months? That could give Scape some time to assuage any concerns, if she's keen on getting the job.
But with the open question of whether there's anyone primarily from the Discord who will receive a nomination, I don't think we should close the thread just yet. :)
hS
He's been helpful throughout the years, offers good feedback when he can, and I did promise to work on coding in a randomised Permission prompt generator with him! I also just happened to make the cardinal mistake of promising two fic projects by Midsummer and so have not been doing anything PPC-related
ETA: This isn't because of his response to me earlier. It's been noted that Thoth has been approached for PG-dom before but has been hesitant like I was. I don't know if that's changed, but if it has, well. gestures vaguely
That I generally am reticent to trust me, but I do trust other people who do trust me. So. I mean. If you all think I'd be a good PG... I will do it to the best of my ability (provided I am not exhausted by other duties I have in life).
He reviews everything, and is really good at it. I’m mostly writing this to ask him to reconsider after last time. I have no doubt that he’d get enough votes, it’s just a matter of whether or not he’ll accept.
—Ls
—doctorlit is sinking into a pit of obligation, though, for real
On the basis of his work schedule, and not because he wouldn’t be awesome at it, I hereby rescind my nomination of doctorlit.
Sincerely, —Ls
...I asked him if I could nominate him in DMs and he declined for work reasons.
But aside from that, I would have seconded him in a heartbeat as a mainstay who also offers thoughtful feedback on everyone's stuff.
Doc would make an excellent PG, but I do know enough of his work life to say that this is not a burden I'm comfortable giving him.
Mostly because I already went and made Novastorme a PG without consulting anyone, and I'd like to defuse any accusations of trying to form a hand-picked hive mind or whatever. (Even though I'm far too introverted to be capable of directing a hive mind, as anyone who has recently met me can probably attest. >.> I'm very happy quietly pulling strings in the background, thanks!)
Ahem. Anyway, I will vote when it's time to vote, but that's all.
~Neshomeh
Very unlikely to nominate anyone either - largely because, as I think I said when I first brought up the idea to begin with, I haven't really been so active lately that anyone comes to mind (especially beyond the people who have now been nominated, one of whom wasn't on board back when the discussion began). I may vote if I get around to it. As I am unsure I will, I should probably just include in this post that Lily and Kittyauthor seem like fine picks to me.
~Z
They're both solid candidates for reasons others have outlined better than I could. :)
Also, nice to see you, Iximaz!
—Ls
In my case because I suspect there's a lot of people I don't know very well, so I don't want to colour the field by nominating badly.
My plan is to vote (in this thread) after a few days, so I can see who's up and, again, not come across as trying to influence where people vote.
hS
Could you, probably later, do stats similar to what you did last time? Not so that I can nominate people (I already nominated Lily) but so the PPC community could see who the active posters on the Board are and, if wanted, nominate them.
The only reason why I'm asking is because you wanted to "hold a vote looking to elect at least 3 new PGs" and we have two, which is good, but it's just under "at least 3," you know? :P
If you can't, that's understandable! But if you can, could you?
(And maybe add a disclaimer or some sort of symbol to represent Boarders under a year or two in the PPC community (as in, has only been here for under one or two years) because Linstar is extremely active, but he's also extremely new to the PPC and probably doesn't have things down quite yet.)
-kA, who is also kinda curious who posted second-most often (Linstar probably posted the most often).
(Edit: Since I posted, another person was nominated. I still would like it if you could, of course, but no pressure.)
Which was harder than it should have been, because the tool I used last time doesn't work on the current Board. But I could cobble it together in Excel again. (Took about an hour, but eh.)
I'm not sure it's all that useful, though. Here's all posters with 10 or more posts in May 2022 (current PGs asterisked, that's all I can do):
My hope was that the Discord was nice and active and had lots of good candidates, but if you're asking me for this I'm guessing that's not the case. Sadness.
hS
Huh, a lot of newbies, already nominated-bies, and PGs.
By the way, I’ll be off the grid the next couple of days, in case anyone wants to know why I’m not responding to stuff.
—Ls
I know who is fairly active on the Discord; I was just curious about the Board. Apologies for not making that clear.
The Discord is very active and I could name the most active poster that I know of, although I don't know all of the Board names for them.
Again, sorry for the confusion!
-kA, in the middle of rehearsal, so they might be slow on responses.
In no particular order.
Badger and Granz are also active-ish, but they're mostly active in the Tabletop RPG channel, which I don't frequent. Owosphere I think is active, but I'm blanking on their current Discord nickname.
I think that's all the fairly active members? I might be missing someone (sorry if I am!), but there are a lot of names.
Judging by past knowledge and activity on the server, I think Eatpraylove, Voyd, and OrangeFox would all make great PGs (not nominating, just throwing my opinions out).
-kA
Bold indicates a current PG, underline indicates at least one nomination, and >>arrows indicate they have posted in this thread.
(It feels weird that neither >>Tomash nor >>Iximaz are on this list, but I'm trying to go by the data, not 'they feel active', and in May they weren't.)
So that's 13/32 "active" members who have chosen to take part in the election so far. Even if all of those have made every vote they're planning to, it would be very easy for a new candidate to rake in 10+ votes, so please don't anybody think it's "not worth nominating any more" or anything!
hS
I know they've been told about it...
~Neshomeh
I will probably be overall less active on the Discord (and probably the Board as well) this summer because my folks and I are busy with travel plans, summer camp, and other things. Also, my mom tends to grumble about me sitting on my bum all day in front of my laptop when I'm not doing schoolwork.
Both of us are very active, at least on here.
—Ls
You can vote right now. However, you don’t have to vote right now if you don’t want.
—Ls
Kittyauthor has expressed interest in this, and helped with one of the recent Permission Requests and was an excellent beta for the other (mine!). kA gives good feedback and is knowledgable about the PPC.
For those reasons, I’m nominating kA for Permission Giver.
—Ls
Not exactly sure where to reply, so I'm replying directly to the intial nomination.
I am honored to be nominated to be PG.
I'm not sure what else to say, sorry!
-kA
I'm more Board-based than they are, and it's always nice to have a PG or two who's more active in Discord. Kittyauthor's contributed a lot to continuity lately, too, which demonstrates not only knowledge of what's happened before but also creativity in grasping the spirit of the PPC.
They helped beta the first part of my first mission, and they know more about how stories work than I do. They're nice, and we've incedentally also talked algebra on the Discord. They also started the World Without Suvians AU. I am still working on my part of the RP on and off with Lily Winterwood.
I've never known them to be any less than respectful and considerate, and they seem quite willing and able to provide constructive feedback.
I don't think I can say anything that hasn't already been said, but if it counts for anything I'll throw in a vote.
Lily has helped with the last two Permission requests (and even basically said a lot of Nesh wanted to say with Linstar's request, if I'm reading what Nesh put correctly (which I think I am, but please correct me if I'm wrong!)) and is an extremely helpful (and currently really active) member. She had even been mistaken as a PG by me because of her confindence in everything PPC.
So I think that Lily should be a PG because of all of the above.
-kA
You offer her a Hat and the Barony it entails? Oh! Oh! In place of a Dark Lord you would have a QUEEN! Not dark but beautiful and terrible as the dawn! Treacherous as the sea! Stronger than the foundations of the Earth! All shall love me and despair...
(But in all honesty, I'm... hesitantly accepting the nomination? I know how overworked the current PGs are, and am friends with enough of them to know I can communicate freely with them. But I worry about drama and the dangers of groupthink a lot and may get flighty at the first sign of srsbsns. It's part of why I had a major period of inactivity here in the first place, though that's 90% more that I got into other fandoms that no one else on the Board was into. Trying to drag Zing and Nesh into danmei hell with me is partly why I'm still around.
But, like I said last time, as long as someone's willing to keep chatting with me somewhere and share a fandom or two with me, I'm down to stay. I read Dragonriders of Pern, for example!)
And in any event, I promise not to suddenly stop bickering with hS about stuff after fifteen years for no good reason. {= P
~Neshomeh
I admit I go mostly with my old memories, but the little interactions I had on the board since returning tell me she's still the Lily I knew.
Anyways, Lily has been a pillar in the worldbuilding part of the PPC, and her concrit is always spot on. She knows how This Thing works, and knows how to approach and show the ropes to our wide-eyed newbies seeking to play in our sandbox, if those last two Permission threads are anything to go by. And, of course, she's been one of our most well-respected boarders for ages - I'm pretty sure she was already here when I first joined twelve years ago.
I know Lily's not really warmed up to the idea of becoming a PG if the previous thread is anything to go by, but... you pretty much already did everything in the PG's job aside from putting the stamp. Go for it, PGs don't have a permission deliberation quota!
Lily has been very helpful and um, PG-ish.
—Ls