Also objecting.

Subject: Also objecting.
Author: doctorlit
Posted on: 2022-08-11 13:40:42 UTC

I admit they may not have much clerical value, but you have to admit, they're kind of fun, right? Seeing how many different continua have seen mission action, and how represented each one is? Plus, as Shirayuki said, we would have to make continuum pages for a bunch of minor ones that may never see much PPC action again. (Pusheen the Cat, You Are Umasou, etc.) We've been pushing against making pages for such minor continua the last few years, but I suppose if the community doesn't mind it so much, we can start doing so?

I'm definitely in favor of ditching the editorial commentary, which is subjective anyway, and only arguably necessary on entries where the original story and mission are both dead links.

—doctorlit/lists OTP

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I think we should have a separate page for Tolkien missions, by Kі nо Shirayuki on 2022-08-06 13:09:11 UTC Reply

because the LotR section on the Killed Badfic/Literature list is too long. I want comm feedback before I go ahead and start the page.

How do you mean it's too long? by Neshomeh on 2022-08-06 15:00:12 UTC Reply

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe anyone reads down the entire page to find things. More likely, people use the table of contents to navigate to whatever continuum interests them. So, what's the problem with a long section if you can just skip around it?

~Neshomeh isn't sure many people look at the Killed Badfic pages at all, actually.

As in there are too many entries in that section by Kі nо Shirayuki on 2022-08-06 23:42:01 UTC Reply

and it makes the page as a whole much longer and bigger. Besides, it's also harder to edit the page.

I was under the impression you could simply edit one section? by Lily Winterwood on 2022-08-06 23:53:05 UTC Reply

Though I haven't touched the Wiki in a while. I wouldn't be opposed to making a Tolkien mission subpage and only leaving, say, notable Tolkien missions (TOS + any Legendaries, probably) with a link to the full page at the top of the section. But don't take that as a greenlight to do it until there's a broader consensus.

On a similar note, maybe the List of RCs might need to be subdivided like the Glossary of PPC Characters is, since the length + all the numbers in it being loaded as equations = the page freezes too much when trying to save edits.

You can edit by section, yeah. by Neshomeh on 2022-08-07 13:46:14 UTC Reply

Though the slowdown on long pages is definitely a thing, and definitely annoying, even on PC. IMO, though, that's something to complain about to Fandom. If we want to use our personal encyclopedia to list things, and we have many things to list, they ought to support that, and frankly, I don't know why the problem exists. Even our largest pages shouldn't take that much computing power to handle.

Anyway, the more people who complain about a thing, the more likely it is to get attention. Even better if it comes from mobile users, since they really have a hard-on for the mobile experience.

In the meantime, if we do start breaking out sections of the Killed Badfic list by continuum, I'd say let's just take it to its logical conclusion: Missions are already listed on continuum pages, so rather than have redundant continuum pages to list killed fics, just add the fic info to the existing pages, as a sub-bullet to the corresponding mission (sans editorial commentary; that's what the mission is for). Then we could even do away with the Killed Badfic lists entirely, which would be fine by me.

... We could trim down the lists by simply removing the bullets of editorial commentary, come to think of it. Some of them are ridiculously long.

~Neshomeh

Yes! Let us complain! by Linstar on 2022-08-08 14:16:13 UTC Reply

I agree, removing editorial commentary is a good first step. But...

On how many places do we list missions? Killed Badfic, Complete list of PPC Fiction, Continuum, Character (sometimes), and Agent pages all list the same things! (As does hS’ Grand Timeline.)

We’re pretty redundant, and it is kind hard to add new missions to all those pages!

—Ls

So, you'd support phasing out the Killed Badfic lists entirely? by Neshomeh on 2022-08-08 16:08:54 UTC Reply

'Cause yeah, moving that information to continuum pages (and sometimes character pages) would also mean one less thing to edit when updating. {= D

~Neshomeh

Does anyone object? (nm) by Neshomeh on 2022-08-11 02:43:50 UTC Reply

Also objecting. by doctorlit on 2022-08-11 13:40:42 UTC Reply

I admit they may not have much clerical value, but you have to admit, they're kind of fun, right? Seeing how many different continua have seen mission action, and how represented each one is? Plus, as Shirayuki said, we would have to make continuum pages for a bunch of minor ones that may never see much PPC action again. (Pusheen the Cat, You Are Umasou, etc.) We've been pushing against making pages for such minor continua the last few years, but I suppose if the community doesn't mind it so much, we can start doing so?

I'm definitely in favor of ditching the editorial commentary, which is subjective anyway, and only arguably necessary on entries where the original story and mission are both dead links.

—doctorlit/lists OTP

Maybe we do the opposite? by Linstar on 2022-08-11 16:00:14 UTC Edited Reply

Could we have the continuum links just be one link, to the appropriate section of the Killed Badfic page? That way we don’t have a bunch of unnecessary continuum pages.

Still delete unnecessary editorial commentary.

—Ls totally ships doctorlists.

How about the other way around? by Neshomeh on 2022-08-11 17:07:57 UTC Reply
I propose:
1. Keep the Killed Badfic pages, but for continua that have their own pages, link to the Missions in This Continuum section of the continuum page.
2. List basic fic info along with mission info on continuum pages.
3. Keep fic summaries, especially if the fic is deleted and we can't find an archive link.
4. Remove editorial commentary unless there's no other record accessible.
How's that for a compromise? Doing it that way, we might at least be able to go back to just one Killed Badfic list.

~Neshomeh

I can get on board with that. by doctorlit on 2022-08-12 03:03:06 UTC Reply

I still think it's fun seeing how much ground we've covered at a glance, but I guess with the KB page split into multiples anyway, we don't really have that. And if people are having trouble editing the pages, we should try to alleviate that.

—doctorlit
I am totally on board with this plan! (nm) by Linstar on 2022-08-11 17:16:15 UTC Reply

I kinda do? by Kі nо Shirayuki on 2022-08-11 03:15:07 UTC Edited Reply

There are continua with too few missions to warrant their own pages (many having only one each), and I'd support keeping killed badfic lists in order to keep track of fic names and reduce the chances of overwriting other people's missions.

I would. by Linstar on 2022-08-08 17:43:36 UTC Reply

Honestly, the Killed Badfic pages are unnecessary—though to get rid of them, we’ll have to create some continuum pages.

—Ls really likes this idea.

Editing long pages on mobile is hard. by Linstar on 2022-08-07 00:29:32 UTC Reply

Another article that this applies to is Huinesoron’s Grand Timeline, which I’ve been unable to edit due to it not loading.

And maybe we could split off the crossovers with Tolkien as well? Or double-list them?

And is Harry Potter long enough to split off too? Just out of curiousity.

—Ls

Yes, the Grand Timeline is very large. by Huinesoron on 2022-08-07 07:27:28 UTC Reply

That would be, in fact, one reason it is still sitting in my user namespace, where you can't even find it by searching "Grand Timeline". It's almost as though I haven't got it ready for people to edit yet, right?

hS

Almost... by Linstar on 2022-08-08 14:11:35 UTC Reply

...but I just want to add the interlude and mission I’ve written. That’s all.

—Ls

It is a draft page. by Huinesoron on 2022-08-08 19:57:48 UTC Reply

It is not live. It is literally a subpage of my user page. Please do not edit it.

hS

Okay, I won’t. by Linstar on 2022-08-08 20:49:13 UTC Edited Reply

Perhaps it doesn’t work on all devices? by Linstar on 2022-08-06 15:19:59 UTC Reply

And it’s annoying to scroll down.

—Ls

On my mobile... by Neshomeh on 2022-08-06 19:22:33 UTC Reply

I get the table of contents in a little tab that stays floating on the right as I scroll down, and sections can be collapsed or expanded at will. That's even better than the experience on PC.

In any case, I'm sure Yuki can say what she meant for herself.

~Neshomeh