Sheridan Hope

Subject: Sheridan Hope
Author: Constellation
Posted on: 2012-08-27 14:57:00 UTC

Let's just ponder for a moment on the fact that the original names for Sherlock and John were Sherrinford/Sheridan Hope and Ormond Sacker.

Also, when it comes to Sister Sues, the main problem seems to be researching names. Of course, Modern!Sherlock's sister could be named Ashley (a relatively modern name), but a 19th century Holmes Sister would be much more likely Elizabeth or Mary. And I think that when she has brothers named Mycroft and Sherlock, she would be Enola or, uh, [InsertKeyboardSmash] instead of something as ordinary as Mary.

randomly Slythering into the discussion
x Constel

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Reporting a Doctor Who/Sherlock Crossover Sue by Lily Winterwood on 2012-08-24 08:03:00 UTC Reply

A World Away: in which the Sue is married to the Doctor and Sherlock simultaneously.
I would love to deal with this with the help of either a Disentangler or at least someone who knows Doctor Who better than me, but the problem is that the author has stopped writing the story after one chapter, so... would it be too short for actual charges or anything, and do we have to factor in the author's acknowledgement that the story was a bad idea?

(Also the author has some other Sues on her profile, one of which is Rose Tyler's sister. Yeah.)

Good Grief by dramaticsoprano on 2012-08-25 20:54:00 UTC Reply

Why is the Sue messing with one of the greatest figures in classical literature?
MST? by ShatteredSanity on 2012-08-24 23:24:00 UTC Reply

You could try and MST it.
Words fail by Sevenswans on 2012-08-24 15:52:00 UTC Reply

Particularly these words, but that was just. Stupid. Horribly stupid. I think you get more than one charge a sentence, a couple for the premise, and hopefully one for a stupid summary.

If you ever find one of these in a continuum I know more about (I know BBC Sherlock very well, not so much the Doctor) I'll be happy to come along for the ride to kill the stupid. As it is, you two crazy kids have fun detangling this one.

Sherlock Sues, you say? by Lily Winterwood on 2012-08-24 17:47:00 UTC Reply

Have fun.
(I call Alexis Gilmore btw)

Re: Sherlock Sues, you say? by Constellation on 2012-08-25 12:27:00 UTC Reply

Aw man. Glad to see that a new Sherlock Sues Tumblr popped up - I tried running Sherlock Sue of the Day (inspired from Deleterius and Potter Sue of the Day) for a while, but I have problems sticking to projects, so it fell asleep...

Now all I need is to get a pair of Agents and then we can unite and kill all the Sherlock Sues. *evil grin*
Haha. by Sevenswans on 2012-08-25 01:44:00 UTC Reply

Hmmm... I cannot decide if my least favorite of the suvian species are the "Sherlock's sister" types or the "Sherlock/OC" types. (In ACD Holmes, it's the pairing sue, because Sherlock is expressly stated to be asexual, actually more than once in canon.)

I think I'll kill off the "Sherlock's big sis Layne" one.

It's funny because there have been published precedents... by Lily Winterwood on 2012-08-25 03:02:00 UTC Reply

...for both of those. Enola Holmes and Mary Russell.
I'd really like to know how the PPC treats published Holmesian badfics, especially of the Beekeeper's Apprentice ilk. (I have no idea how good or bad Enola is in terms of quality of characterisation.)

about Enola Holmes by LunarHuntress on 2012-08-26 17:57:00 UTC Reply

I read those a few years ago. They were all right - nothing terribly special, but nothing particularly bad, either. From what I remember, for the most part Enola did her own thing and stayed out of her more famous brothers' way. It didn't really have to have been a Sherlock Holmes-dreivative at all. It probably would have been more enjoyable if it was something entirely unrelated.

That said, non-canon siblings of canon characters are very hard to do well, and most "Sherlock's sister" stories I've seen are inane or godawful. So that's true.
The flaws of Public Domain by Sevenswans on 2012-08-26 17:57:00 UTC Reply

I would too. Though, I can console myself with the fact that those pastiches at least had their spelling and grammar checked.

I've seen some very good Holmes fanfic. I've almost never seen good Holmes fanfic with any original character that takes on a main role unless they're a Scotland Yard Inspector or a client of some sort.

But just as I can't charge published books with claiming to be scientific and then getting everything wrong, I don't suppose there's much for me to do about the Beekeeper's Apprentice besides ignore it and hope it goes away. (Never read Enola Holmes at all. Also, what kind of name is Enola?)

Some VERY good Holmes fanfic by Miah on 2012-08-26 20:10:00 UTC Reply

Westron Wynde is a superb Holmes author. I particularly love her series about a younger Holmes.

The Curious Case of the Prestidigitators Python

The Mystery of the Tankerville Leopard

The Abominable Affair of the Charming Chiromancer

The Particular Problem of Postern Prison

And she recently came from a long hiatus with the promise of another in the series! I am excited.

If these were ever brought up for sale, I would pay money to own them in printed format, and that is the highest praise I can think of for a fanfic.
To be fair, what kind of name is Sherlock or Mycroft? by LunarHuntress on 2012-08-26 18:02:00 UTC Reply

Also, it's mentioned that the Holmes' mother was a bit eccentric, and the fact that Enola is alone backwards becomes a plot point.

And Enola is a real name, actually. The Enola Gay was the plane that dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima, and it was named after the pilot's mother.

True by Sevenswans on 2012-08-26 18:04:00 UTC Reply

Somehow "Sherlock" (comes from an english surname) and "Mycroft" (also coming from an english surname)just don't seem to fit it, though.

Of course, anything is better than when they name some Holmes Sister Sue something like Lauren or Ashley... Brrr.

Sheridan Hope by Constellation on 2012-08-27 14:57:00 UTC Reply

Let's just ponder for a moment on the fact that the original names for Sherlock and John were Sherrinford/Sheridan Hope and Ormond Sacker.

Also, when it comes to Sister Sues, the main problem seems to be researching names. Of course, Modern!Sherlock's sister could be named Ashley (a relatively modern name), but a 19th century Holmes Sister would be much more likely Elizabeth or Mary. And I think that when she has brothers named Mycroft and Sherlock, she would be Enola or, uh, [InsertKeyboardSmash] instead of something as ordinary as Mary.

randomly Slythering into the discussion
x Constel

Possibly Violet. ACD loved that name, didn't he? by Lily Winterwood on 2012-08-28 00:21:00 UTC Reply

Though admittedly I see Violet used a lot more for Holmes's mother (and Siger for his father).

Violet by Constellation on 2012-08-30 13:06:00 UTC Reply

Used a lot, you say? So that's why it's stuck in my head that Mummy Holmes would be Violet...

Daddy Holmes in turn pokes me usually with a name from mythology or medieval times. Siger I have not heard of, but Sigurd or Siegfried (both close enough to Siger) strike me as very likely possibilities.

x

Re: It's funny because there have been published precedents... by Miah on 2012-08-26 01:12:00 UTC Reply

When you have one canon that is based off another canon, the secondary one is governed by the rules of the first, unless it is stated to be different in the secondary one. Also, no matter what the secondary canon says, it cannot effect the original.

So if a fic is based off ACD's Holmes, then a relationship or sister is a direct violation of canon. Even though Beekeeper's Apprentice exists, it doesn't effect ACD's Holmes. If Beekeeper's Apprentice never says that the BA Holmes never did cocaine, and fanfic mentioned that he did, then it wouldn't be a charge, because the original canon can trickle down into the secondary.

Even though we'd normally charge a Holmes wife, because BA is a published canon in its own right, we are sworn to uphold it (and all other published Holmes derivative works) in the spirit of their published worlds. So in it, the charge would be if she was replaced by some other woman.

Thanks for clarifying by Sevenswans on 2012-08-26 17:59:00 UTC Reply

... And hopefully I'll never have to use that information, because I don't plan on ever seeking out anything pertaining to the Beekeeper's Apprentice.

Another charge would be if they warped her or Holmes out of character established by the BA canon (or not specified by that and specified by ACD) if I understand your post correctly. Good to know.

That was stupid ... by EileenAlphabet on 2012-08-24 08:32:00 UTC Reply

I mean, really stupid. Like, pants-on-backwards stupid. The general idea didn't make sense, but neither did any of the details.

Like the way everyone reacts to her being pregnant the first time. It's not such an unusual situation, certainly not something that deserves being called horrible. So why is everyone reacting like they're from Victorian Sherlock and not the modern interpretation?
Look! I'm already charge-list-ranting!

Since practically every single sentence constitutes a charge, I would say that there's more than enough material. And I don't even think you have to know that much DW, since it's hardly in there and the charges are pretty obvious. But I would like to help you out with that and so, I'm sure, would other people.

As for the author's admittance that this was an awful idea ... Maybe I'm not being very kind here, because I'm annoyed with the fic, but I don't see any kind of real regret or understanding on the part of the author, that this was indeed a Very Bad Idea. She just seems huffed that she got negative reviews for her story and then she decided that it wasn't worth it, if people weren't telling her that it was great. And after all, she didn't take it down.

So perhaps a collaboration mission? by Lily Winterwood on 2012-08-24 08:38:00 UTC Reply

(Or perhaps, a series of collaboration missions, because I've also discovered Twilight/Sherlock crossover The Strange Life of Isabella Holmes where I'm not sure whether that's Bella Swan or a (even moreso) Mary Sue Replacement of Bella Swan.)

I actually felt nauseous reading the fic, to be honest. Really, really nauseous.

Re: So perhaps a collaboration mission? by EileenAlphabet on 2012-08-24 09:51:00 UTC Reply

I got to ' I rushed down the stairs in my usual Feline grace, God, I loved disguises!' Then I felt like punching something and had to close the browser window to make sure that this "something" wouldn't end up being my laptop.

An what Was with the Random capitalization of Words?

Anyway, I would love to do some sort of collaboration mission!

Yay for collaboration missions! by Lily Winterwood on 2012-08-24 09:52:00 UTC Reply

I'm lilywinterwood@gmail.com; chuck me an email whenever you're ready to take on these two... crossover Sues.

I'll do! by EileenAlphabet on 2012-08-24 19:16:00 UTC Reply

Probably soon. The fic I was panning to spork next has been taken down and I don't really have anything else lined up.