Subject: Re: Sibs and Houses, continued.
Author:
Posted on: 2012-06-15 01:38:00 UTC
As someone who's in the uncomfortable position of not-quite-newbie (I've been around for what, half a year? More or less) and who's still making idiotic blunders (that somehow always seem to happen when July's around) I do think I need a big sib around here.
So I hereby announce that I am joining the house of Two by Four.
(Did I do it right?)
Since the previous discussion on this topic, kicked off by the awesome Irish Samurai in response to another discussion started by the awesome PoorCynic, has fallen off the front page (and was getting rather unwieldy besides), I'm bringing it back up so we can keep working on this. There's still lots to do and more voices are badly needed!
What we've got so far is a developing "charter" for what this is for and how it works, and a few proposed houses and Big Sibs in them. I'll start with the charter, now on its third revision thanks to input from hS:
1. PPC Goals
These are the primary goals of any PPCer or group of PPCers.
As a two day newbie, can I request a Big Sib from House Skull Goblet. It's not the House I think I would fit into, but I consider socializing my weakness and as such would like someone who find it a strength.If this isn't the right idea, please tell me.
Hola. I am, at the moment, the only Big Sib operating in House Skull Goblet. Since I'm not being flooded with questions, I feel like I can take on another newbie. As I said to Nit, my email address should be accessible by clicking my name, and if it's not it can be found on the beta reader list on the wiki.
Though I technically joined months ago, I still feel like a newbie, especially when it comes to interacting with the community... can I still join a house as a Little Sib? If so, I would love to be part of House Darjeeling.
I can take you in. {= ) My contact info is right here; feel free to drop me a line.
~Neshomeh, back from a longer-than-planned hiatus.
House Name: House Tryforce
Area: Areas involving video gaming. Basically to try and break away from the video gaming mechnics which a lot of authors get stuck in. (E.g: Pokemon battles where the Pokemon stands there, taking turns to attack each other, not moving, etc). It would also be there to help people whose agents come from certain gaming universes, as well as provide critique for Missions which take place in a video game
Despite the name being a joke based on the greet message that I had set to show up when I logged into the IRC, I suppose I should outline the mission statement of House Skull Goblet.
"House Skull Goblet: This house is focused mainly on showing newbies the ropes of the wiki, IRC, Board, etc. so that others aren't left so frustrated they want to turn the newbies' skulls into goblets. To be more concise, the house is focused on the community, and helping newbies fit in."
Of course, having me be the sole person in charge of the house focused on the community is proooobably not right. We should get some more people. People who are far less likely to harvest the skulls of newbies who annoy them, since we're trying to help prevent that in the first place.
And I am sorry if I missed the point on this, but weren't all the houses created with the aim of helping newbies learn the basics of the community and fit in?
I guess what I'm asking is, what does your house focus on that isn't shared by all houses? What makes it unique?
-Phobos
Honestly, I have no clue. I was not expecting to be taken seriously when I called dibs on House Skull Goblet, since it's such a ridiculous, and unfriendly, name. When I noticed I had been, I decided I should probably come up with a reason for existing, and that was the best I could come up with.
I actually think it's a good idea. Some people (read me) find the community aspect daunting at times and having a house just dedicated to that makes quite a bit of sense or at least I think so.
I hereby propose the creation of House Grave Energy Initiative.
I may be breaking the rules by the House name being slightly linked to its purpose, but it was too much of a good line to pass up. (Green energy = grave energy? Get it? NVM.) This would be a writing-emphasis house, working on not just PPCing but the mechanics of fiction in general. Worldbuilding, proper description, character building and motivation, the whole nine yards. Fantasy a specialty. Publication an eventual goal.
Grave Energy Initiative's ultimate goal is to produce more authors of original universes, thus ensuring that the PPC has a steady supply of authors revolving in graves for eons to come. :D
... with the other people that have expressed an interest in House Grave Energy Initiative.
Are you saying that the House sounds like a good idea and you'll want to make use of it in the future, or that you want a Big Sib now? (Just wanting to make sure nobody gets left out due to a misunderstanding).
I'd like to join this house as a little sib as well. I'm really interested in becoming a better writer in general, but I would like to get better at writing original fiction.
Sorry for the delayed response, but if you're still looking for a Big Sib you can e-mail me at samurai_ireland@hotmail.com with any questions you have.
I have a few original fiction things, and I would like some help with them... eventually.
Most of the stories I write are original, and I would love to improve my technique. One of the things that I most need help with is plotting out my stories beforehand, because I often stop in the middle of a story because I have no idea where it's going. Publication is an eventual goal of mine, but not something I'm ready for just yet. However, when the time comes I would love to get some tips on how to get published.
Would there be room in House Grave Energy Initiative for a Big Sib whose interests lean slightly more towards writing original sci-fi?
World-building is probably one of my favourite things about writing, although most of what I've done recently has been for tabletop RPGs rather than stories, so it's had a slightly different focus.
I can do fantasy, and I certainly read a lot of it, although when it comes to thinking up storylines, or ideas for quests, my brain just seems to naturally favour futuristic settings.
I certainly second Irish Samurai on the inclusion of sci-fi if possible. (I lean in that direction, too.) I think House Grave Energy Initiative would probably suit me the most (although with a hint of Darjeeling on the side).
Maybe House Grave Energy Initiative would be better as a general original writing house if you could get enough Big Sibs with varied specialties?
I put fantasy in there because that's my area of expertise, and I didn't know if there would be any sci-fi-emphasis people willing to join up for Big Sib duty with me in particular. But if this house gets approved, you're absolutely welcome to join! The more the merrier.
Seeing as we're both Big Sibs in this House, it'd probably make sense if we could contact each other (off the Board as well as on it). If you want to drop me a line, my e-mail address is samurai_ireland@hotmail.com
There really is no approval process for making new houses. So, congratulations on your new house!
-Phobos
I think this charter looks good, and I would definitely still be up for acting as a Big Sib myself, although I’m not sure about a House at the moment. When I graduate (or whatever term we’re going to use) from Kind Words and a Two-by-Four I’ll certainly consider reapplying as a Big Sib for them.
In the meantime, I’ll have a think about establishing a House myself, although I don’t have any firm ideas for that yet.
Thinking specifically about my own potential as a Big Sib, if I were to take on a newbie and get asked a question I didn’t know the answer to, I wouldn’t necessarily know who the best person to redirect it to was. It might be worth having a bit of info about each Big Sib, basically just strengths/areas of expertise, that people can look up if they need to (I’m thinking only of Big Sib to Big Sib interactions here, as it’s already been established that we don’t want newbies to be able to ask for a specific Big Sib by name). Or, is a personal knowledge of each other Big Sib’s key strengths a part of being a suitable Big Sib, which could sort of be covered under point 2 of the House Structure guidelines?
I don't see there really being a "graduation" or any formal breaking away. The way I figure, it's an organic process of learning and becoming more comfortable in your own right and less dependent on your Big Sib—eventually, they're just your friend rather than your mentor, but they don't stop being your Big Sib. That doesn't mean you're stuck in their house, though, if you end up feeling more suited to something else. "Houses shall be made up of oldbies willing to be Big Sibs to newbies," not Big Sibs and Little Sibs—it's worded that way on purpose. {= ) I could definitely shoot for clearer wording about Little Sibs not actually being in the houses, though. (That's part of why this discussion is really important.)
As for knowing who's who among ourselves, that is a problem that wiki categories are uniquely suited to solving, I think. I'm positing sub-categories of the PPC Boarders category, Category:House Darjeeling, Category:House Kind Words and a Two-by-Four, etc., that would be applied to Big Sibs' user pages. There could also be a list on the category page itself, to cover heathens people who don't have wiki user accounts. This will be especially helpful if we end up having Big Sibs in more than one house.
~Neshomeh
I wasn't anticipating any kind of formal graduation ceremony or anything, I was just using the word as a shorthand for 'when I feel confident/comfortable enough that I don't need my Big Sib's advice', pretty much exactly the way you described it in fact.
If you think the wording could be cleared up a little, maybe something like 'Houses shall be made up of oldbies willing to be Big Sibs to anyone who feels they need one (whether that's newbies who don't know where to start, or regular Boarders that just want a bit of advice on a given subject),' although that could probably be summarised a little more.
Since I've come up with an excuse...
I hereby present:
House Parmandili (Quenya: Book-friends)- the house for those utterly obsessed with their fandom (to the point where they, say, learn the languages... heh). Of course that doesn't mean all of us can answer every question about every canon ever - but we can help you find someone who can, and discuss how much enthusing is appropriate in the community.
I'm assuming I'm allowed to be in Darjeeling and Parmandili at the same time, despite problems it will cause with the Inter-House Valinorean Cricket Tournament...
hS
PS: Also, a Suggested House, not an actual creation: in line with Neshomeh's comments, a house for those who are primarily here to meet people and talk a lot might be a good idea, to go with those for people who concrit, PPC-love, and fandom-enthuse. ~hS
I can volunteer for this house in certain fandoms--mostly Nanoha, Madoka, and the Dresden Files.
... although if it doesn't get off the ground I'd be willing to settle for a nice cup of House Darjeeling.
Elcalion, who may obsess about LoTR and Star Wars to the point of naming electronic gadgets in Quenya*
*Written from my laptop, Ingolmo, although likely to be viewed from my iPhone, Palantir.
I personally think being in multiple houses defeats the purpose of narrowing the field of selection, but it might have to do if enough people are concerned about it.
My feelings are that you should pick the house for the thing in which you feel you're the most expert, the most comfortable teaching someone else, rather than spreading yourself across your entire field of interests. I mean, I could hypothetically be in Darjeeling, Two-by-Four, Rule of Funny, Writerly Writers, Betta Betas, Hanging Out and Doing Stuff, etc. etc., but that wouldn't do me or anyone else any good in the end because I'd never be able to keep it straight.
On the other hand, if people really, really feel like they can't decide, maybe a limit of two would work as a compromise?
Also, I definitely think there should be a house for writerly writers, who are interested in doing original stuff. Tungsten and I sorta talked about it. I may be not-so-subtly trying to nudge her into founding it. >.>
~Neshomeh
I think it should be fine for Big Sibs to belong to multiple Houses, unless it gets to the point where the majority of Big Sibs are in the majority of the available Houses.
If it were to reach that stage, there wouldn't be much point in having the defining characteristics of the individual Houses, and it would probably make just as much sense to go back to a general Big Sib pool. The House descriptions would effectively end up just being shorthand ways of newbies categorizing themselves, and you'd probably get a more detailed impression of what they were like by asking questions along the lines of 'What sort of stuff do you like to read? Have you written any fanfiction, if so what for? etc.', so it would sort of fall apart.
Having a limit in place to prevent that from occuring is a good thing in my opinion. Personally, I'd probably only want to be in two Houses (maybe three at the outside) at once anyway, just because otherwise I wouldn't feel like I was focusing properly on the Houses' goals.
There's nothing in your Charter that indicates to me that 'membership' (if such a thing even really exists) should be restricted. Houses are all about helping out newbies and oldbies alike, and saying we should be restricted seems... well... restricting.
Let's come back to Lacksidacksical for an example. She shows up and says 'I think I'm in Darjeeling, but I feel like I'd get on well with Parmandili too.' Now we know what sort of person she is: someone who gets obsessed with fandoms, and particularly with the PPC. If I artificially limited myself to Parmandili, I would have to shrug and say 'Not my house, not my problem'. But I'm not just a Parmandili person - I'm a Darjeeling-type as well, and somewhat a Grave Energy Initiative type too. I can't see any reason that, just because Lacksidacksical has a slightly altered order of priorities, I should ignore her when actually we have the same fields of interest.
I'm not sure that's clear, so let me try another phrasing: if Houses are essentially ways of formalising fields of interest with short snappy phrases, I can have multiple strong areas of interest, so why shouldn't I say I'm in multiple houses?
hS
My counter-argument is pretty much what I already said: part of the purpose of having houses is to narrow the field of Big Sib candidates (which probably should go in the charter if it isn't in there yet). If we were to go totally limits-free and say everyone should be in as many houses as describe them, then houses would be merely descriptors, and would no longer serve a purpose in parceling out the load, because the people in the most houses are clearly the top candidates for any given newbie. Limiting the Big Sibs' house involvement is basically so they have the leisure to say "Not my house, not my problem" sometimes, and conversely so there's a clearer obligation to stand up when it IS your house.
Also, as you say, it is an entirely artificial limitation. Nobody's interests are actually limited to just one thing, and I think we all know that; it's just a way of delineating groups. We could do the same thing by alphabetical order, or birthday, or something equally arbitrary. Perhaps that would be less confusing than grouping by interests... but it starts to verge on the dry and boring, too, so I wouldn't advocate for that. {= P
Also like I said before, I think the system could stretch as far as allowing a Big Sib to represent up to two houses and still function, but I think any more than that starts to break it down, as I said above. If you really really really can't make up your mind, then you've got some wiggle room, but you don't risk stretching yourself too thin.
For the record, I think newbies need to pick just one house, even more so if we've got Big Sibs in more than one. Otherwise there's that same problem of nobody knowing for sure whose turn it is to step up, which risks nobody stepping up, and then the Dark Side wins.
Or something.
I'm about to run out the door for the weekend. >.> More on this later!
~Neshomeh
Additionally, it makes everything more complicated, because beyond a simple headcount that can be done within a single house- "Hey, who can take this newbie? Hey, X, I see you only have a couple, would you take them?" it becomes a massive, stupidly complex affair, because then you need to be ask how many newbies they have for other houses too, or even ask the other house themselves.
The reason I suggested houses was to give it a bit of an organizational component that'd help keep it going.
Multiple houses kinda makes there be no point to having them in the first place.
I've been here for about... a month and a half I think. It really feels longer (probably because I was lurking for a couple months before I joined) and I no longer feel like I need guidance on the Board. Areas like the IRC and the Wiki though, I still feel a bit lost. My question is, am I past the need of a Big Sib? If so can I have like a Twin Sib or something as just a friend who can give me a few pointers once in a while?
The Big Sibs thing is for all aspects of the PPC. Not just the board (or the wiki [or the IRC]).
Considering that Desdendelle, who's been around for over eight months now, feels like he's in need of a Big Sib still, no, you're not past the point of needing it.
If you want, you're welcome to message me over email/gtalk (email is above with the clicky name), or AIM (fairladypsyche), or even just while on the IRC. I'm usually up and about and near a computer or similar most of the time. I'd be more than glad to be there for you.
*Gets warm fuzzy feeling inside*
As someone who's in the uncomfortable position of not-quite-newbie (I've been around for what, half a year? More or less) and who's still making idiotic blunders (that somehow always seem to happen when July's around) I do think I need a big sib around here.
So I hereby announce that I am joining the house of Two by Four.
(Did I do it right?)
...several secret trials of character, a ritual held at three past midnight in a crypt lost to recorded memory, and a light meal complete with side salad, we have decided to accept you into House Two-by-Four. Welcome!
I'll be your Big Sib from here on out. You have any questions, concerns, requests for betas, etc., you can either look for me in the IRC or send me an email. I can be reached at reillybf AT msn DOT com (replacing the capitalized bits with punctuation where needed.)
I propose House Fruitbat: about the Rule of Funny* and why/how the PPC more or less runs on it. (Yes, this is the house I'd file myself under, if possible.)
Sound good? People interested? And so on?
*I know it's a Trope term, but it's the most apt one I know for the purpose.
I'll help out in Fruitbat, too!
... then quickly lowers it again to stop the flying, swooping things from biting my fingers.
House Fruitbat sounds like a place I could feel at home in.
The charter so far already includes items and concerns I had brought up personally (and ideas I had brought up in the first place).
As it stands, though, with the fourth item for House Goals, I can see this becoming a problem. Anyone who has real life siblings know they do not have utter control over them. It stands to reason that while we as Big Sibs should be the first in line to let our newbie know that no, hey, that is not okay, etc, we cannot be responsible for them entirely. I can't stop them from doing something if they really, really decide to, after all, and it would be unfair for us to put the burden of that on someone.
And with regards to communication, it does mean that those in the same house will need to set something up in some manner for group wide communication, be it group email or using a talk page on the wiki or something, so people are all on the same page, and there's more cross-talk going on beyond just pairs. This is something that should certainly be kept in mind.
That item can be rewritten—the main point is that you are primarily responsible for letting your sibs know what is and isn't okay, and that we will be wondering what's up if they're running amok and there's no sign of anything being done about it, but yeah, it should be a question first. "Hey, what's up here? You did tell them not to set the wiki on fire, right?"
If the answer is "I've told them SO MANY TIMES, ARGH, they won't LISTEN," then maaaybe that's a sign we need to throw that newbie back. {= /
On the other hand, if the answer is "Oh yeah, I should probably do that," or less, and especially if this happens repeatedly, then maaaybe that person isn't suited to be a Big Sib anymore.
There probably does need to be something in there to cover neglect/unfitness in general, just in case. Contingency for if a Big Sib is going to be away or otherwise unavailable for awhile, too—they'd hand the reins over to other house members for that time, I imagine.
~Neshomeh, rambling.
Anyone who has real life siblings know they do not have utter control over them.
This is worrisome news, July. Have you tried shock collars? Blood rituals? Some unholy interesting combination of both?
This most recent version of the charter is the best I've seen yet, and I would be happy to subscribe to it.
I'm also, finally, behind the concept of the Houses, as long as we can get and keep them organized. I can see the value in mini-"committees" having a brief discussion over who would best suit the newbie as Big Sib.
My one concern is what happens when a newbie clearly fits two or more Houses. I guess the mini-committees will have to meet and come to a decision that way?
To be honest, this is a problem I'm having. I'd like to think I'm at least partly involved in multiple aspects of the PPC: I use the Board, Chat and Wiki; I've read most of the stuff from Jay and Acacia's day (although I'm still trying to find time to finish hS' history stuff! Alas!) and everything that's been published since I joined. I've betad at least a dozen PPC writings (probably more; haven't been keeping track) and try to leave a comment on everything if I have something of value to say.
I just don't know where I fit in. Maybe I'll be . . . the Rogue Sibling, sneaking about in the shadows of all the houses, nicking a couple of Lil Sibs from everywhere and generally causing confusion.
Do any other official/prospective Big Sib volunteers have this problem?
The houses are for the newbies to pick from. Those within said house decide who will be the Big Sib for that particular newbie.