Subject: While I appreciate your two cents...
Author:
Posted on: 2012-05-22 20:48:00 UTC
Please warn for strong language in the future or, better yet, don't use it at all on the Board.
Also, no bashing of real people. Not cool.
-Phobos
My younger brother wants to join the PPC, but he wants to write an agent who hates minis and kills them on sight. I've tried explaining to him that I don't think it's a good idea to kill minis, but he won't listen. He says that the PPC is being to restrictive in not letting people kill minis on sight.
Any thoughts on the subject would be very much appreciated.
I think the problems with killing minis have already been pretty well elaborated, so I wanted to suggest something else: maybe instead of killing them, the agent could have some sort of other negative reaction to them that's a bit less psychopathic (and, consequently, funnier). For instance, I could see it working if they were frightened of minis- someone who saw a mini-Balrog and, instead of the usual PPCer reaction of "D'awww, wook at da widdle demon of fiery destwuction," went "Agggh! It's a demon of fiery destruction coming to eat me!" Even if they were just nervous and paranoid about them, treating all minis with a level of suspicion typically awarded only to mini-Discords from MLP, it'd allow for humor and/or shenanigans revolving around the character's mini issues without bringing up all the issues everyone has already explained.
Maybe the agent in question could dislike the minis and the minis could dislike him back in some sort of sitcom-type relationship. The kind where they end up glaring at each other and hissing a lot but never actually do anything.
...minis could love him. You know, like how cats seem to have some sort of magic radar that lets them instantly find the one person who hates cats and sit on their lap. ;)
Like those people in anime who always have animals following them which are never explained or have any purpose.
except that minis are supposed to be cute and endearing and engender feelings of adoration in our crusty, weathered agents.
Plus, there's a reason we have rules. Gotta follow the rules.
While it looks like Mary-Sues and minis have the same source (badfic, mistakes), this is not true. Mary-Sues are all just glitter, while minis have a bit of personality and are really more like animals or helpless bit characters or sidekicks.
I admit to having my own issues, but that's just... What? I'm going with the cruelty to animals angle here, seeing as I have a lot of pets. This is just insane. Who would kill something adorable and (for the most part) defenseless? That's psychotic.
I think the general reaction (or at least mine) to something like that happening would be akin to the internet shitstorm that was raised when a moron known as Kenny Glenn hit the internet. It's not a good idea to abuse pets, and especially not the pets of people who are ax crazy enough to be PPC agents...
Just my two cents.
Please warn for strong language in the future or, better yet, don't use it at all on the Board.
Also, no bashing of real people. Not cool.
-Phobos
Duly noted. *shuffles off in embarrassment*
Kenny Glenn is a real person, yes, but I wasn't trying to bash. I was trying to reference a real-world event, but it didn't quite work the way I was intending. *is embarrassed*
Will try to remember the warning about language in the future.
Admittedly, Agent Florestan really doesn't like minis, but he's not intent on killing them. 'Sides, most of the time the mini's mischief in relation to him is played for laughs, so... yeah.
Killing minis is bad, unless it's a mini-Sue. That's the rule of thumb here.
Apart from the fact that it's on a level with killing small children, sentience-wise, Minis are more than capable of defending themselves - they are, fundamentally, humanoid-eating monsters, and there are a lot of them.
Other people have already said that they don't like the idea, and explained why, but I also think there are some practical problems with even trying to do it.
From an in-universe perspective, I think minis would be quite difficult to kill. I'm not familiar with all of the creatures listed on the list of minis, but most of the ones I do recognise I would imagine are still pretty dangerous in their own right. Mini-Balrogs, for example, whilst being very small demons, are still demons, so I would expect a certain level of resilience from them (I also believe that they are capable of breathing fire, and have sharp claws, so they sound like they’d be pretty handy in a fight). Minis are used as Security for the various OFUs out there, and can keep hordes of screaming fangirls in check, so they're clearly not push-overs.
Not to mention that the minis found within PPC HQ are going to be owned by Agents (or in the Adoption Centre, which presumably has some kind of security). Anyone who manages to actually kill a mini is going to have to answer to at least one pissed off Agent, and anyone going off on a killing spree is likely to have every Assassin, Security Weed and anyone else that can grab a weapon, after them. Only a massive Sue would be able to stand up to all that lot.
Personally, I can't see how a character with that trait could be well written for the PPC.
From an out-universe perspective, minis that have been adopted tend to be characters with developed personalities etc., so if he wanted to do something as drastic as kill them off in a story, technically he'd need permission from whoever owns them. I'd be very surprised if anyone actually allowed that.
The closest that he might possibly be able to get to this would be a character who kills any minis he sees while on missions, rather than adopting them. But I personally would be very uncomfortable with that idea, because of the cruelty to animals issues that have already been raised. And looking at some of the other comments that have already been made, I think it highly unlikely that Permission would be given for such a character.
I wonder if minis can even be killed in the traditional sense. Considering that they take their life from the existence of spelling errors, I would think they'd just come back the next time somebody makes that mistake again, or perhaps they can't die in the first place as long as the error exists somewhere.
Not that that would excuse some psychopath trying to off them on sight just because he feels like it. That's pretty much awful. {= (
~Neshomeh
What I and everyone else said. No, killing minis is not an option (OK, excepting mini-Sues, which are a rarity) and any agent he writes who kills minis on sight will not be approved by a PG. He can rant about it being 'too restrictive' all he wants, it won't change anyone's mind.
How much does your brother know about the PPC? Is his knowledge based solely from what you've told him? If so, he really needs to read the Original Series and some of the spin-offs, just to show him that minis aren't bad. They're basically the agent's pets and someone who goes around killing other people's pets isn't going to be very welcome.
Others have already elaborated on why this is a bad idea, so I'm just going to point you to them for that.
What I wanted to add was that one of the characters I write is a Mini. He happens to be one of July's exceptions. He has the intelligence and mentality of a fully grown adult. I really don't like the idea of an agent running around that would kill him without a second thought.
As far as the PPC being too restrictive...we have certain restrictions in this community, that's true. Permission is the biggest one, and we have it for a reason. We use it to make sure that people understand what the PPC is about, among other things. Based on what you've told us, I don't think your brother has any idea what the spirit of the community is.
If your brother wants to write a story where his character kills other peoples' pets, he is free to do so. No one here can stop him. However, we will not allow that sort of thing to be done here, and we will not allow it to be done elsewhere in the PPC's name.
Long story short: If your brother doesn't want to play by the rules of this community, then he would be better off finding a community that is more in line with what he wants to write.
-Phobos
As has been elaborated on, killing minis is bad. It is not a thing. It is not a cool thing. It is a bad thing and a bad idea all around. That is not something any of the PGs will accept or allow, I would think, especially considering that the concept of minis isn't even the PPC's in the first place.
The PPC is not being "too restrictive" in not letting people kill minis on sight, because that is akin to saying that it is "too restrictive" to not allow people to kill small children on sight or pets on sight.
Because Minis, for the most part, are pets and often enough have the intelligence and rough emotional age of small children (barring some exceptions).
Does it say "Plays well with others" on his last report card?
How old is your brother? Has he read the Original Series?
The reason we don't kill minis is because they're mostly harmless and cute, in an on-fire-and-sometimes-with-tentacles way. Plus, they range from being as smart as a regular animal and being sentient, so killing them could range from cruelty to animals to murder. I mean, it might be humorous if he tries to kill them and his partner has to stop them.
Actually, why DOES your brother hate minis?
He says that all they do is get underfoot and in the way.
If he doesn't like the way people have written minis within missions, then should he ever get Permission he can either not use minis or come up with a better way to write them. And by "better way", I mean having them do more in a story, not killing them off right and left.
An agent who had odd superstitions about minis and tried to avoid them as a result could be interesting. ("I can't use my sword on this mission, a mini-Balrog crossed my path, that means the sword will break!") Mr Gotta-Kill-Them-All, on the other hand, is not interesting, and not someone I can believe the Flowers would hire in the first place.
Apart from what Crimson Flight and firemagic have already said, I would like to note that "getting underfoot" can very easily translate into comedy. Comedy is, after all, a huge part of what we do here.
What I would suggest is that your brother either not use Minis at all or, if he wants to challenge himself, find a way to write them so they are funny without being underfoot. It is possible for a writer to re-imagine a concept, that they don't like, in such a way as to make the concept better than it was before. Better...stronger...faster.
I guess I just feel like...if there is nothing wrong with the concept, except the fact that you don't like it, then leave it alone or show the world how you would do it better. But don't destroy it just because you don't like it.
-Phobos
Yes, as Crimson said, that's a TERRIBLE reason! That'd be like killing small animals or children because they don't do much!
Actually, minis are often used as guard-creatures by the OFUs, and they're pretty good for getting rid of Sue bodies, so they're not useless. Not to mention that they're smart enough to not get in the way, and that they'd be pretty hard to kill--the Nanoha mini, for example, is a copy of something that could only be destroyed by a space cannon.
That isn't a very logical answer for why he wants to kill minis on sight. It's like saying that someone wants to kill kittens on sight because they get underfoot and in the way.