The real question

Subject: The real question
Author: Phobos
Posted on: 2012-05-02 14:33:00 UTC

It is not so much a matter of being too new, though that is sometimes the language we use*. What you really should ask yourself is "Have I been actively participating in the community?" I would like to know how you would answer that question for yourself, before I give you my thoughts.

*We use that language most often with people who ask for permission within a few days of joining the Board. However, it has been known to come up with people who have been around up to a month, especially if they haven't posted anything.

-Phobos

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Wondering about permission... by HimochiIsAwesome on 2012-05-02 13:25:00 UTC Reply

Okay, I'm thinking of requesting permission soon, but I'm wondering whether I'm too new for it still.
I honestly had to go back and check when I joined (just over a month ago, I believe), but that's probably because of my bad memory... ^^'
So, um, yeah. Am I too new? Too shiny and pink? Not well known enough? Because I honestly can't tell these things. Oops. ^^'

And on a slightly related note, concerning agents and cute animal friends... I know CAFs are bad, but...
The wiki says one kind of CAF is as follows:
"Usually a small furry animal or a bird, this animal is the Sue's pet. It may be a symbol of her purity or goodness: hinting at the Sue's connection to the earth, nature, or just innately cute and cuddly things."
I'm not sure whether giving one of my agents a pet would end up being this... it doesn't really symbolise her purity or goodness or anything... if anything, she'd get embarrassed about it, but really... Um, yeah. I'm just unsure is all. If there's a risk of a pet sheep going Cute Animal Friend, I'll just scrap the idea completely.

~Himu~

Sheep by the Irish Samurai on 2012-05-03 19:22:00 UTC Reply

You seem to have settled on the idea of your agent having a plushie, rather than a pet, which is totally cool; but I do still expect to see at least an interlude where said plushie gets turned into a real sheep and runs amok in HQ (maybe it could be hit by a rogue made-up spell from a Harry Potter Sue or something).

The thought of the Flowers' reactions to a herbivore wandering through the halls of HQ is currently entertaining me.

I see your point... by HimochiIsAwesome on 2012-05-04 20:43:00 UTC Reply

...this is probably going to end up happening now...
Although I'm not sure I know the Harry Potter canon well enough to do a mission from that timeline.
But there are many Hetalia fanfic involving British magic and badly-made Wales/Scotland/Ireland/Nor'n-tans, so...
...
...or maybe a new agent's first time with a Muggle-use wand?

*evil grin* It'd be a great excuse to have my agents sent a really horrible badfic, too~ ^^ Ooh, I am liking this idea~

Regarding CAFs by TheMadHatteress on 2012-05-02 20:21:00 UTC Reply

The real purpose of a CAF is to be a plot device to make the Sue seem better, whether it be a small furry animal to make the Sue seem gentle and kind, or some sort of large, vicious animal to show that the Sue is a warrior. I think that a sheep would be okay if it were just a pet. My only question is: where would your agent keep it? I don't think that there's enough room in an RC to keep a sheep.

So going by that logic... by Astral Void on 2012-05-03 11:32:00 UTC Reply

It'd be OK for one of my agents to have a pet bird? I was thinking just a cockatiel or another common pet bird, nothing like a peacock or eagle.

Also, Himi, did you take a look at those songs I recommended for you?

Regarding the songs... by HimochiIsAwesome on 2012-05-03 12:52:00 UTC Reply

Unfortunately, I haven't gone through all of them yet... because, being the rebellious youth that I am, my stepfather banned me off my internet for a while...
Luckily, I recently got it back, but I haven't had the time to listen to them yet, with my exam revision... but I'll try and listen to them while I revise~
Hm... I wonder if it's stupid to listen to Rock when revising for Geology?

*wince* by Astral Void on 2012-05-03 13:27:00 UTC Reply

Damn, sorry about the 'net thing. Good luck with the exams!

(No, it's not stupid. Stupid would be listening to 'The Elements Song' on repeat while studying Chemistry... theoretically useful, but you'll hate it in about five minutes and you'll just get annoyed.)

That's up to you. by Ellipsis Flood on 2012-05-03 11:48:00 UTC Reply

As long as you can treat having a bird reasonable.

Yeah by HimochiIsAwesome on 2012-05-02 20:28:00 UTC Reply

I understand now... how the CAFs make the 'Sues seem "better"... but...
My whole sheep idea was kind of badly thought up in general, thinking back on it...
^^ Which is why I decided a sheep plush would work a lot better~
Less fuss, less mess, but just as adorable~

The real question by Phobos on 2012-05-02 14:33:00 UTC Reply

It is not so much a matter of being too new, though that is sometimes the language we use*. What you really should ask yourself is "Have I been actively participating in the community?" I would like to know how you would answer that question for yourself, before I give you my thoughts.

*We use that language most often with people who ask for permission within a few days of joining the Board. However, it has been known to come up with people who have been around up to a month, especially if they haven't posted anything.

-Phobos

Hmm... by HimochiIsAwesome on 2012-05-02 19:11:00 UTC Reply

Well, I feel as though I've been joining in quite well... but I'm just...
...
...honestly not sure?

Hm... maybe it's still too early for me. I can't think of a good way to answer that question...

I join in conversations when I can, and I'm pretty proud of myself for joining in this much, though. Usually, I end up lurking to death or just outright forgetting about the sites I join! So I'm glad I'm managing to stay and actually post things and be part of the Board...
...
...wait, does that class as an answer? My mind is saying 'no', but...
I really don't trust my mind to answer these sorts of questions any more.

Re: Hmm... by Phobos on 2012-05-02 19:25:00 UTC Reply

It seems to me that you are saying 'yes', but thinking 'no'. Interesting. Let's examine that, for a moment.

Evidence for 'yes':

"I feel as though I've been joining in quite well."

"I join in conversations when I can"

"I'm pretty proud of myself for joining in this much"

"I'm managing to stay and actually post things and be part of the Board"

Evidence for 'no':

*Cricket chirps*

Conclusion:

I think that is a pretty conclusive 'yes'. The mind can play tricks. Don't let it fool you into shortchanging yourself.

-Phobos

Re: Hmm... by HimochiIsAwesome on 2012-05-02 19:33:00 UTC Reply

So it is a yes then~ I knew it! My mind was trying to fool me again, no wonder I never trust it~
Take that, mind, you're powerless against PHOBOS'S LOGIC! *random thunder and lightning for dramatic effect*

Then to punish her mind, Himu promptly sent it to its room without any dinner. The End?!

About CAFs by the Irish Samurai on 2012-05-02 14:05:00 UTC Reply

As I understand it there's a big difference between a pet and a CAF; pets are animals and have to be looked after, played with, fed, cleaned up after, etc., whereas CAFs are essentially inert blobs that happen to have the form of an animal. If it can go for weeks on end treking after the Fellowship along with the Tenth Walker that owns it, without being fed, and only being brought up for someone to squee over it, or to show how 'caring' the Sue is when she takes a thorn out of its paw, then it's a CAF. If, as an agent, you have to deal with feeding it and find time between missions to care for it etc. (I'm not really sure how you'd look after a sheep; would they play fetch?), then you're dealing with an actual living being, so it's a pet.

I'm not aware of the Flowers having a 'No Pets' policy, so I think a sheep would be fine. It might also be a good idea to keep it on a leash, as I believe that sheep eat vegetation, and that could lead to unfortunate things happening if it ever escaped.

As for the rest of your questions; I have absolutely no idea, being too new here myself to judge such things.

On Irish Samurai's newness by Phobos on 2012-05-02 15:06:00 UTC Reply

You claim to be too new for things, yet you were confident enough correct me when you thought I had made a mistake in Crimson Flight's permission request. I don't care that you later changed your mind on that. I think telling a Permission Giver that they are wrong on something proves a level of confidence that most newbies can't claim.

You also didn't preface it with "I'm kinda new here, but..." That speaks volumes.

The Newbie Hat (because we can never have too many hats) doesn't dissolve over time, it has to be taken off and set aside by the person wearing it. It takes longer for some people, than for others and some people know they are setting it aside, some don't. You don't seem to notice that you've set it aside.

This is, of course, just my opinion, and others might well disagree on my Philosophy with the Newbie Hat. Something to consider, though.

-Phobos

On my newness by the Irish Samurai on 2012-05-02 16:54:00 UTC Reply

Well, I don't consider myself to be a newbie here anymore; after reading through a lot of stuff on the wiki, various spin-offs, and going through some of the historic posts on this here Board, I think I know what I'm talking about for the most part.

In RL, if I have an opinion I'll offer it (even if it does turn out that I'm mistaken sometimes), and let's face it; the anonymity granted by the internet can do wonders for even the shyest person's self-esteem.

Having said that, there is still some stuff that I'm too new to have much of a frame of reference for; one of those things is how long it takes / how active you have to be before you stand a chance of getting Permission. Off the top of my head, I can only think of one person who joined around the same time as me (AnnaBee), that has been granted Permission. Yesterday I saw Mysterial (whose name I recognised, which I initially assumed would mean that they'd been around enough for everyone to recognise), be denied Permission, mostly for a lack of knowing what they're like. That's when I realised (or rather, fully understood) that the 1 month guideline isn't just an arbitrary time, but a chance to get to know what someone is like, in addition to the Permission Request showing if they can come up with good agents and write well. Until I've seen a few more requests go through, or be denied due to newness, I'm not going to be able to gauge that sort of thing with any kind of accuracy.

To be honest, I'm not even sure if I've been around enough to get Permission; I'd like to think so, but there's only one way to find out... and that requires me to do some more writing... which I haven't done yet.

I know it's not official policy, but I will see gaining Permission for myself as confirmation of my lack of newbieishness.

*has set aside the Newbie Hat, but hasn't picked up a new one yet*

On your response on the topic of newness by Phobos on 2012-05-02 17:39:00 UTC Reply

I get where you are coming from.

With regards to Mysterial, the lack of activity was one reason, but it wasn't the most important. The lack of reasoning in the agents was the big one. As Permission Givers, we try to make sure that we don't let newness get in the way of an otherwise ready writer. Newness can be a reason, but not the reason. At least one person I know of got permission after about two weeks, if memory serves.

Anyway, I look forward to you getting around to doing that writing and asking for Permission. I am interested to see what you can do.

Also, it's dangerous to go hatless. Take this. *Gives Regular Boarder Hat*

-Phobos, hats for everyone!

That is a very nice hat... by the Irish Samurai on 2012-05-03 20:52:00 UTC Reply

... I particularly like the sporks sewn into the brim; thank you, Sir Phobos, Knight of Mars, The Betraying Betrayer Who Betrays (with honours), for this generous gift.
*crossing my fingers and hoping I've remembered all your titles correctly*

Regarding Mysterial's Permission Request, it looks like I misinterpreted July's post; I'd assumed that the reasons were given in order of importance.

Thanks for the interest in my potential spin-off; here's hoping I don't disappoint.

My titles by Phobos on 2012-05-03 21:07:00 UTC Reply

I have so many titles, and they change so often, that even I can't remember all of them all the time. You got some of the most important, at any rate. Well done.

Generally speaking, any comment about the content of a permission request is more important than most other considerations. Sometimes it is just easier to post simple issues first, while you formulate your other, more complicated, points.

Anyway, enjoy the hat.

-Phobos

Hats! by HimochiIsAwesome on 2012-05-02 19:16:00 UTC Reply

...please may I have a hat? *puppy eyes*
~~Am I allowed to draw sheep on it?~~

You already have a hat... by Phobos on 2012-05-02 19:19:00 UTC Reply

...where it counts. In your heart. You might want to get a doctor to check that out. It can't be healthy.

-Phobos

Re: You already have a hat... by Crimson Flight on 2012-05-03 03:49:00 UTC Reply

I now subscribe to your theory.
That's okay~ by HimochiIsAwesome on 2012-05-02 19:25:00 UTC Reply

...who needs a doctor when you've read GodHand Teru and played Trauma Centre?
*proceeds to almost kill self*

Yeah... by HimochiIsAwesome on 2012-05-02 14:26:00 UTC Reply

Hm, I seem to get it better now, I was just wondering about it... but yeah, if I did give an agent a pet sheep, I'd have to make sure I remembered to write about the agent feeding/caring for it, and all that... and I just don't trust my memory. :|
Although, accidentally freaking out the Flowers with a sheep out on the loose is a very tempting idea.
But no.
That would be bad.
~~But oh so funny.~~

I guess Plan 'Give-Her-A-Plushie-Instead' is GO!

A rogue sheep loose in HQ could make for a good interlude... by the Irish Samurai on 2012-05-02 14:35:00 UTC Reply

... and now, for some reason, I'm thinking of Wallace and Grommit.

Very true~ by HimochiIsAwesome on 2012-05-02 18:50:00 UTC Reply

...
...and now I'm thinking about eating the moon on a cracker.
I believe my mind is going a bit off track here. Oops.

But that begs the question... by SeaTurtle on 2012-05-03 05:22:00 UTC Reply

...what type of cheese is the moon made of?

I say it's Wensleydale.

Most definitely. by HimochiIsAwesome on 2012-05-03 11:08:00 UTC Reply

Wensleydale seems right... all the more reason to eat it~ Wensleydale's delicious~

CAFs. by Ellipsis Flood on 2012-05-02 13:51:00 UTC Reply

CAFs are, like Sues, speshul. Just ask yourself some questions.

If your agent had a sheep, what would it eat? Would they, perhaps, shear it? Where would it live? I mean, it's not a cat, or a hamster. It's a *bleat* sheep. It probably needs to be washed too, or combed, if it's not being sheared regularly. And where do you even get a pet sheep? It's not like they're being sold in pet stores.

Hmm... by HimochiIsAwesome on 2012-05-02 14:00:00 UTC Reply

...hm, it would be hard to write that pet sheep, now that I think about it...
Maybe a pet is too much for me to write. Probably... yeah.
Hm.
Maybe I'll give her a plushie instead? Simpler to write, more embarrassing if people find it! Cold-seeming person who secretly has a cute little sheep plush hidden away under a blanket somewhere... *grins* I like this idea~
Also, sheep plushies.
Very cool.
~~I have one myself.~~ I said nothing! >////
It fits! It works! And I thank you for setting me towards this idea (somehow)!
Thankie for the help~ Have a slice of Fail!Cake! Freshly baked! Sorry about the buttercream, it sort of... separated, hehe~ But it's all good~