Subject: Or, to put it in a better way...
Author:
Posted on: 2012-05-04 17:35:00 UTC
... something that comes up in a movie-verse Thor badfic that directly contradicts something in a movie-verse Iron Man badfic would be a canon break.
I think we're best off asking Meta about this: he posted a mission in the Avengers continuum some time around the beginning of the year.
The movie the Avengers is coming out, and we all know what that means--more badfic. Possibly an explosion of crossover madness. So get ready, I suppose...
Feel free to spout off what you think about the movie, if you see it. I haven't seen it yet, but I'm excited. I mean, it's Joss Whedon. He's legendary. And it has a team of normal humans working with many magical, super powerful beings as well in a sort of vigilante/peacekeeping way, which is vaguely PPC-ish.
And, well, explosions. They're fun, too.
I loved every minute of it.
It was fantastic, and the audience actually applauded several times. (Particularly at that scene with Loki and the Hulk. You know the one.) Joss left his metaphorical thumbprints all over it, but in a good way- lots of hilarious one-liners, managing to effectively establish a lot of characters in not too much time, and, of course, the heart-wrenching death of a minor character everyone liked and never expected to die. :P I plan to drag the rest of my family to it after finals are over.
The audience here cracked up at the Loki-Hulk scene :) .
My only objection, and a minor one, is that they didn't pull in that scene from an early Avengers comic where Cap picked up Mjolnir and handed it back to Thor. I think Chris Hemsworth could have handled Thor's reaction well. Maybe in the sequel ....
:: bracing for badfic ::
...and it BLEW MY MIND!!!
Seriously, this movie was so full of concentrated awesome it ain't even funny.
Now, to sit back and wait for the imminent badfic explosion...
It is everything a superhero/comic book movie directed by Joss Whedon should be: gripping, action-packed, often hilarious, big on character, small on exposition. People (Phobos and myself included) were applauding, and not just at the end. Ten points out of ten.
I want a Hawkeye and Black Widow movie now.
~Neshomeh
I didn't know much about the world beforehand (I've only seen Ironman 1 & 2) but I was still able to follow it. Robert Downey Jr. is still one of my favorite actors.
'Twas awesome. My favorite part was when Tony Stark called Hawkeye "Legolas". In fact, I love how they even included Hawkeye, seeing as he's one of the more low-profile superheroes.
And it was AWESOME! All the characters seemed to be well-written, and it didn't feel like any unnecessary plot threads were dropped in. Also, I may need to have the SHIELD Helicarrier listed as one of my LOs.
Although, in the beginning when Black Widow was interrogating the Russian mob people, my Russian friend kept giggling because of their accents.
I want to watch it, but I still have the Lord of the Rings films in my living room ready to watch... and my best friend wont let me watch it until I've seen... almost every film ever. Iron Man, Iron Man 2, The Hulk, Thor, he's making me watch them all... ;A; Too many films and it's still exam season.
Although, does anybody know who the guy with the arrows is?
I haven't gone looking for any Avengers badfic yet, and I'm not sure I'd want to after enjoying the film so much, but I was wondering how it would be treated by the PPC.
Is The Avengers a continuum in its own right (AU version of the component continua, or just an umbrella term for all of them), a legitimate (i.e. non-implausible) crossover of the various original continua, or maybe even something else entirely?
Just wondering what it would mean for agents dealing with any of the continua involved, and how they would determine if things were going against canon or not. For example, is something that would be a canon break in Iron Man automatically a canon break in The Avengers, and vice versa?
I've only seen the films, not read the comics, so if the answer is in the comics, I haven't had the oppourtunity to find it.
Comic book universes are all vast and complex and interconnected in even more complex ways. There are discreet Iron Man, Captain America, Hulk, and Thor universes, and then there's the Avengers universe, which gets to pick and choose the elements from the other four that all fit together and leave out anything that doesn't work. So, what's a canon break in Avengers isn't necessarily a canon break in the Iron Man universe, and vice versa.
Where PPCing is concerned, the question is, what continuum does the fic say it's set in? If the fic says it's an Avengers fic, then you PPC based on Avengers canon, which includes elements of all four of the component 'verses plus some of its own, but you can't charge for anything that doesn't actually appear in Avengers-verse. Similarly, if it says it's an Iron Man fic, then you can't charge for violations based on the Hulkverse or the Thorverse or anything not particular to the discreet Iron Man canon. (You can charge for pulling in elements from other canons that don't belong there, though.) Unless it's an Iron Man and Hulk crossover, but that's something else again. Also, if it's a movieverse fic, you don't get to charge for stuff that only shows up in the comics, and vice versa.
As far as these films are concerned, though, they are pretty explicitly set up as a series—they all take place in the Avengers universe.
~Neshomeh
... is that the Marvel films blend together elements of Marvel Comics two main "universes"; the mainstream Marvel titles and Ultimate Marvel. I'd call the films a separate continuity, myself.
However, I also understand that the films are supposed to all be set in the same world. So, an Avengers badfic that contradicts something established in the Thor movie could be charged for it, even if that element never came up in Avengers.
... something that comes up in a movie-verse Thor badfic that directly contradicts something in a movie-verse Iron Man badfic would be a canon break.
I think we're best off asking Meta about this: he posted a mission in the Avengers continuum some time around the beginning of the year.
The thing is is that the Marvel universe is its own continuum. The Avengers is a legitimate part of the Marvel universe. They can come INTO the actual comic books where the heroes are and do things. So... any ooc-ness in the ENTIRE Marvel continuum is oocness. Period.
tl;dr: "is something that would be a canon break in Iron Man automatically a canon break in The Avengers, and vice versa?"
Yes.
Wasn't sure if all the different Marvel stuff was supposed to be in the same world, or if they were just really fond of doing crossovers.
Now, when Marvel and DC do official crossovers, things get... interesting.
Mal: Define interesting.
On a (somewhat) related note, I'm currently sporking a 'lovely' little Serenity/Eragon fic. I need a beta reader...
Yeah, I saw you claiming that fic earlier; I wouldn't mind helping out, although I don't know Eragon, so you might still need another Beta.
Doesn't hurt to have an excuse to re-watch Firefly and Serenity.
You're an awesome beta-er. ^^
Some of my friends took time off work for the Thursday movie marathon, but that wasn't an option for me. I should be able to get to a Sunday or Monday showing.
I had really high hopes for this movie (after thoroughly enjoying the Iron Man, Thor and Captain America films), and it exceeding all my expectations!
Although I do wonder how it will affect the indivual Avengers' films, assuming that they plan on making more of them (and I really, really, hope that they do).
As far as the badfic goes, I'm really not looking forward to any that feature OC Avengers; I can see it attracting a lot of Sues and Stus with powers that'll make life difficult for the Assassins.
I love superhero movies! My brain may explode with joy, but hey, I'll die happy.
As soon as A)It comes out and B)My brother comes home from college so we can see it together. I can't wait!
Sibling love, aww... :D I'm going with my dad.
Already seen it. It came out on April 25 here for us.
It was awesome.
... it better be good. I am going to be forced to watch it by my daughter whether I like it or not.
*sigh*
The fangirl drags in the dad, and vice versa. He came me Lord of the Rings. I force-fed him Brian Jacques. But hey, before Redwall, the only thing he'd read within three months was a Tom Clancy.
Lucky you. All my dad has shared with me is his persistent efforts in converting me to Harmony (it's really scary the way he spouts stereotypical Harmonian arguments without having seen that sort of thing online at all!) and the insistence that I couldn't complain about Twilight without having read it. He did get me His Dark Materials though (even if at far too young an age) and I'm the reason he's reading the Hunger Games--and possibly why he read Harry Potter. Oh, wait--he gave me my first Discworld book, I think. Even if he has barely read any however much I nag him. All is forgiven!
I totally agree.
I've already made plans to see it. The combination of Robert Downey Jr. and Joss Whedon in one film makes my little heart go pitter-pat.