Subject: Yep.
Author:
Posted on: 2012-04-19 19:15:00 UTC
I mean, the Deathkorps of Krieg is practically a straight rip of the WWI German Army. Spikey helmets and all!
Subject: Yep.
Author:
Posted on: 2012-04-19 19:15:00 UTC
I mean, the Deathkorps of Krieg is practically a straight rip of the WWI German Army. Spikey helmets and all!
Hello All,
I'm brand-spanking-new to this board (and the PPC in general - ran into your article on tvtropes, of all places), and wanted to ask a question that will, hopefully, spare what little is left of my sanity.
I'm off to read the Legendary Badfics (and related material), and am looking for a relatively non-mindfrakingly-NSFW fic (read: Eye of Argon-esque) to cut my teeth on before I jump in to the real bad stuff (read:C*l*br**n). Any suggestions/warnings/amusing anecdotes?
Riese
Why hello there, newbie~ I'm a newbie (sort of) who was brought here by TV Tropes too~ That website is very evil, and now I tend to hashtag tropes when I type. ^^' #TVTropesWillRuinYourLife
Oh, a word of warning: If you plan on reading C*l*b*i*n, remove any and all lavender items from your general vicinity. I learnt the hard way, as I was stupid enough to forget that my curtains, duvet covers and almost half of the things in my bedroom are coloured lavender.
Needless to say, I don't sleep anymore.
I read most of the badfics myself and I'm not that scarred... but then again, I did have mental scars beforehand, so it may just be that I was already too scarred... :|
Oops, I'm rambling again~ Hahaha~
Either way, shiny newbie, have a sheep~ *hands you the fluffy ball of cuteness that is a lamb*
Good luck, newbie, and watch out for the chukar partridges~ They have cleavers~
~Himu~
Admittedly, it was quite a while back, but I too found the PPC via TVtropes. *is the sort of incurable troper who thinks in hyperlinks*
Thinking in tropes isn't really good for you.
I mean, [[TVTropesWillRuinYourVocabulary it's already done terrible things to my speech patterns]] and devoured weeks of my time (both [[TabExplosion directly]] and [[TVTropesAsAGatewayDrug indirectly]]), but [[MoreThanMindControl I can't NOT think in tropes now]]. [[TheVirus It's just too dang infectious]].
It also kinda wrecks you as a writer, when you think and rely on tropes.
Tropes are not things to build from. Keeping them in mind when you're creating something isn't a good idea either, for that matter.
When you do that, you're limiting yourself to definitions others have made for things, rather than thinking of ways to actually make a character come to life, make a plot interesting, or make the setting of the story a place you want to explore (or stay well away from.)
For example:
If you tell me your character is an Magic Pixie Dream Girl?
I will not be interested or impressed. That's not a person. That's not even a character.
If you tell me your character is someone who had a miserable childhood, distances herself from people and accepted society with eccentric behaviors or an out of the ordinary appearance because she is depressed or has schizophrenia or an anxiety disorder and expresses herself that way because she's trying to cope and she has no real control over herself or her situation and she's going after the boring apparently normal guy because she's trying to cling to something stable before she falls off the edge, but doesn't actually know how to express it in any way but her quirky eccentricities?
I will be a bit depressed and sympathize with her because that character is a person.
Thinking in tropes is bad for you as a writer.
I like to think I'm not too bad about that. I can't help but notice tropes as I write, but I try not to write to the trope. Despite the whole Tropes Are Not Cliches deal, most characters written around one primary trope are flat and boring; I try to make sure that even if I get the original concept of a character from tropes ("Hey, you know what would be fun? A Cute Psycho Staff Chick!"), I'm working from at least three or four and fleshing out all the reasons they happen to be that way.
Basically, I try to treat tropes as archetypes, with characters falling into a category but not being defined by it. If that makes any sense. >_> Plus I've always found that the most entertaining trope examples are the ones that do something unusual with the idea, so I try to aim for that as often as possible.
Using Tropes to build a character is STILL using Tropes, no matter how many you throw into the mix to broaden them.
Explaining who a character is, using only tropes, doesn't tell us who they really are, or anything substantial about them. Okay, she is a Cute Psycho Staff Chick. Now you have a cardboard cutout of an attractive girl with a staff, and possibly a rather nasty gleam in her eye, or a bloodied staff. But who IS she? WHY is she that way? Does her using a staff have any relation to her character at all?
Tropes are a crutch, used to explain a character in wide, general terms. They are NOT helpful when trying to make someone from scratch, as you place the person in a box with a label. When you start them off with a big label, you can duck and weave as much as you want, but it still defines them.
My point is that I try to make sure there ARE reasons. I get inspired by reading random things, and in the case of Iris, it happened to be a trope description for the Staff Chick; I started pondering why so many characters of that overall type happened to have such similar personalities. I then started thinking about the sort of person I've never seen a Staff Chick be, and one of the things that crossed my mind is that even in settings where everyone is messed up in some huge way, the Staff Chick's neurosis is usually shyness and anxiety. So I thought, "What could you do to give her a different mental health problem?" That's the point where the weird little corner of my brain that adds trope hyperlinks to everything brought up that whole archetype of the girl who looks cute, but if you catch her at the right/wrong time turns out to be frighteningly unstable. Then some other corner of my brain went, "Hey, that actually sounds sorta cool!"
My point is that while she was inspired by the two tropes, by now Iris has a lot more to her than that. I could describe her as a Yangire White Magician Girl, or I could describe her as a young woman with a natural talent for healing magic and a family history of schizophrenia who saw both of her parents killed by undead with her biomancy-vision on, and the massive emotional and psychic trauma from that incident triggered her into full-blown disorganized schizophrenia. She's in a setting with little understanding of psychology as a discipline and certainly no antipsychotics, so even though years have passed since The Event, she still regularly slips into word-salad babbling and often says things that other people find disturbing without realizing there's anything odd about it. She clings to her magic almost as a security blanket, playing with raw biomantic force constantly because she likes to watch the little blue lines move (and their absence reminds her of the forces of anti-life animating the monsters that killed her family). She loves dogs, has been known to try to make "improvements" to local wildlife (She once found a sparrow with a broken wing. It now has an unbroken wing, three eyes, and rainbow pinfeathers.), and has either panic attacks or violent-screaming-terrified-rage attacks when faced with undead. And she's a Cute Psycho White Magician Girl.
The closest equivalent to how I think about tropes is... well, has anyone seen the Dresden Files RPG, and how it describes characters via "Aspects"? For example, Harry has the Aspect "Wizard Private Eye", but no one's saying that's all he is. And hell, half the Aspects in the Who's Who listing pretty much are tropes; Morgan's "Zealotry in the Pursuit of Justice is No Crime" means the same thing as the trope "Inspector Javert," and Thomas's "I Must Fight My Demon" could be easily replaced with "Enemy Within," for example.
Speaking of Jim Butcher, he's said that he once got in an argument with a friend about whether you needed a good idea to have a good story, or whether you could write a good story based on a bad idea. His friend dared him to write a good story based on a stupid idea of his (the friend's) choice. Butcher took him up on it. The idea: the lost Roman legion, with Pokemon. The result: the Codex Alera, one of the most crazy-awesome high fantasy series ever.
tl;dr: I don't think the source of an idea automatically detracts from it, whether TVTropes or anything else. Or, to quote the SCP Foundation:
*The Vampire Diaries Insight: "There's no such thing as a bad idea. Only poorly executed awesome ones."
**Clef's Addendum: "However, some ideas need to be executed perfectly to cross the line into awesome."
Troper newbie here as well. Sort of.
I read it yesterday. ...I don't think I'll be eating ice cream for a while.... And I think my face broke. It's stuck like this O.O
Here, have some of my bleeprin... It'll help~
And have a 'Sorry you got scarred' sheep too... complete with magical British 'Get un-scarred soon!' sparkles~
Everyone loves free things, right?
Sheepie! Soft and fluffy and comforting :3 Thank you!
Chickens work better.
It won't actually hurt you that much. It will just make you wince a lot and maybe laugh. A nice beginner's piece.
I'm one of those people that could never bring themselves to progress past that level, though. So I can't think of anything tougher that I've actually read.
Hi, have some fudge!
...all I can say is "legolas by laura." Especially the dramatic readings. And especially especially "legolas by laura: The Motion Picture."
Oh, and My Immortal, but that one goes without saying.
imma wiserd and Time of Your Life (though the second one isn't quite legendary yet, Tara is still legendary, so I figure it counts).
Much appreciated! Heh, I am SO not gonna get my homework done today...
Light and Dark: The Adventures of Dark Yagami.
Is it as inane as the title implies?
It's... it's like the My Immortal of Death Note. No, it's WORSE. It's full of indescribable WTFFery.
That's...frightening. It really is. Why do people write shit like this? (not that I'm complaining - it's fun to spork)
The author of that fic is a known troll. He likes to torture us, it would seem.
...Onward! I look forward to reading the mission.
Thankfully, I'm going to try later today. It's been three weeks since my last attempt, so I think I am no longer a Total Newb. Perhaps still a little too pink, a little too sparkly, but... :3
Don't worry, with enough GUTS AND HARD WORK you should be able to.
Thanks for all your cheering-on, guys...
I like the Agents you've written up. I'm looking forward to reading the Adventures of Not-Sherlock-Holmes :D
I read My Immortal once...Aah, good times...*snigger* DAmN YUO, VaMPIRE POTtER!!1!!
Started LBL, but couldn't get too far in because OH GOD MY SIDES.
We love newbies very much! =D
Have some Schoenberg for the road as a welcoming present: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzAFalLbXxg
...Please tell me that's a bass fiddle I'm hearing, not a banjo :O
It's scored for clarinet, bass clarinet, mandolin, guitar, violin, viola, and cello. Also, the center movement is a setting of a Petrarch sonnet that was translated into German.
Ok, so cello. I haven't played in an orchestra in some time - my identification skills must be getting rusty. I like the piece, though. Thanks for pointing me at it!
Welcome to the Board! Have some of my world-famous* all-natural** and totally safe*** hydrophobic water.
What are your fandoms?
*Not really.
**Depends on the day.
***Are you kidding? This stuff explodes at the mere mention of reality.
Fandoms...By the Throne, FAR too many. I'll list off what comes to mind (I read a lot)
LoTR, Narnia, Warhammer 40k, Halo, Harry Potter, All Things Tamora Pierce, The Dresden Files, Codex Alera, Strike Witches, Bleach, S.M. Stirling's Novels of the Change, The Inheritance Cycle (if laughing hysterically at them counts), Twilight (I LOST A BET, OKAY?!?!1!), Star Trek (mostly Original Series, All Things David Weber, Percy Jackson, Fate/Stay Night, umm....and other stuff I can't remember.
...in large quantities.
Yay, someone who's read Codex Alera! There are more than I'm used to around here, but it's so niche.
On the other hand, we've got one bonus: fewer fics may be sad, but they mean fewer horrors.
I love Codex Alera. I truly do. It's one of the few "swords-and-horses" fantasy series I've read that managed not to be recycled Tolkien. Not that recycled Tolkien is BAD, per se...
In all fairness, it hits up a lot of tropes too (farm boy hero etc-end-series-spoiler). And, well, in my own opinion, if you don't guess just from the premise what's going to happen--or at least by the end of book one--you're asleep.
That said: it's still presented wonderfully, and that was the whole point of his writing it. It's so fun, and for once the hero wins by being intelligent, and it's shown, not told. I think if I had to live in any fictional world, that may be the top one--top five at least.
I always wanted to get started on the books but never found the time to do so. What's your favourite faction? Mine is the Imperial Guard.
HOLD THE LINE, DAMMIT!!
err, whoops. Sorry, my inner Commissar gets out of hand some times...
But yeah, I love the IG, just for the sheer awesome that they represent: vanilla, unmodified humans facing down the horrors of the galaxy armed with Flak armour, glorified flashlights, HUGE balls, and their faith in the Emperor.
But Orks. Orks leave me in stitches every time I read any of their fluff. Even the codex is funny.
Sorry, that's just an automatic reaction whenever I think there might be Commissars nearby.
I too am a fan of the Imperial Guard, although I am also quite fond of the Tau battlesuits and hovertanks.
Resisting...urge...to blam...
aah, that's better. When/if I get Permission, I'm probably going to write an ex-Commissar as an Agent. Should be fun!
"...Having terrible grammar, Annoying the Agents, Being a Throne-Damned Mary Sue, and HERESY! For these offenses I sentence you to death by blamming!"
But Agent aside, I kind of like the Tau. So young and innocent and idealistic.
Having an agent yell "HERESY!" and blamming a Sue would definitely be hilarious. Also, why do I keep reading Cadia as "Canada"?
Also, have you noticed how similar IG tactics are to WW1 battles? It involves throwing as much men as possible into the meatgrinder as possible until either:
a) you threw in enough Guardsmen to crush your opponent under a mountain of flack-armoured, flashlight-wielding corpses
b) the tanks roll in
c) you run out of reserves.
It's far more than just the tactics, there are WW1 references all through the Guard;
The tank designs themselves are more reminiscent of WW1 era vehicles than modern machines, with the tracks that circumnavigate the entire chassis, and particularly the side mounted weapon sponsons available for the Leman Russ (and various other Forge World tank models).
They're one of the few armies those infantry regularly have fixed bayonets (the others I can think of being possibly Orks, and Chaos, although they usually have a 'spiky and bladed' theme in total, so I'm not sure it really counts).
They have elite infantry units called Stormtroopers.
Several of the worlds mentioned in the Codex and novels have conscription.
There might be some more, but I can't think of it right now.
Due to the parallels between IG and WW1 armies I have actually considered trying to build a trench system for my gaming table, although haven't taken it anywhere yet as I haven't worked out how to do it fully.
I mean, the Deathkorps of Krieg is practically a straight rip of the WWI German Army. Spikey helmets and all!
Yeah, you're right. Also, that far in the future they still use /cavalry/, despite having dropships and some of the best damn transports going.
Admittedly, their cavalry is armed with thermite weapons and lasers (or torches depending on how you look at it), but they still ride around on actual flesh-and-blood horses.
Even considering their weapon tech, that's pretty old school.
Run out of reserves? Pfft! SEND IN THE NEXT WAVE! (No, really, there's an IG commander with a special rule that allows him to remove damaged Conscript squads from the board and redeploy them, at full strength, from the board's edge. At no extra cost.)
Also, Creed and his Infiltrating Baneblades/Warlord Titans.
And it's all yours.
Hi there. I'm new as well. Sort of. Have a brofist because I too am reading the Legendary Badfics. They're somewhat entertaining.
Greetings, new friend! Help yourself to the bag of venomous arthropods! Don't worry; they don't bite!
Yeah, the legendary badfics aren't really "related material." Obviously, you're still welcome to read them, but I don't know how enjoyable that would be for you!
Welcome. Have this bag of polyhedral random number generators as a sign of friendship.
Now on to your question. I would caution against reading the Legendary Badfic. It is all really terrible and there are other things to read that would be far more enjoyable. We are a community based on good writing, which may not have been clear from TvTropes. We don't like bad writing. We like turning bad writing into good writing.
Anyway, do as you will with the Legendaries. If you are interested in what we actually do around here, a lot of information can be found in the following places:
The Constitution - Ground rules for hanging out here.
The Wiki - Where we deposit all of our useful information for easy browsing. The FAQs that are linked on the main page are especially useful.
The Original Series - This is one of the things I mentioned that would be far more enjoyable than the Legendaries. It is the first series of PPC stories.
Phobos' Lair - Hey, I'm allowed to plug my own stories, right? Right? ... Anybody?
RC #999 - One of my favorite spin-offs. So what if it's my wife's? I am totally unbiased.
Totally unbiased.
-Phobos
Have a plover!
Warning: Stay away from C*l*br**n, and don't read the fic, just the mission. That's what I did.
Celebrian, Cupcakes, and quite a few others on the LB list are bad, but they're the sort that you won't quite grasp just how bad they are unless you have familiarity and love of the canon. For example, i'm only sort of familiar with LotR, so Celebrian is mostly just boring.
Eye of Argon is amusing because of the writing, but if odd choices of phrase, and purple writing don't amuse you, it won't be your cup of tea.
Honestly, for more general audience WTFery, I'd say look up Topless Robot's Fan Fiction Friday feature. The stuff found there tends to hurt on a different level, be it terrible biology, terrible spelling and grammar, or some combination of the three. And, if the story itself isn't enough for you, the commentary tends to make up the difference.
Honestly, I'm not sure what's up with the recent influx of newbies who have decided that immediately after finding us, they need to go read the Legendary Badfic. It's like you lot treat it like reading the legendary badfics is a test of manhood that seperates the newbie from the true boarder. Which it's really not. I mean, if you're looking for them because you're like me, and you enjoy reading badfic, go for it. But if you're doing it to prove something to yourself or the rest of the board, don't bother. They're just stories in the end. Stories that fundamentally Don't Get It, but still just stories.
It's not so much a "prove myself" as much as it's "I'm bored. Let's see what sort of a mess I can make of my poor, abused brain today!"
And the badfic is usually infinitely more amusing than the goodfic. I mean, there are only so many facial expressions goodfic can cause. BADfic, on the other hand, runs the whole gamut from d'awww to WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN
TL;DR - Me bored. Bored caveman go make brain hurt. Bored caveman not bored now.