I haven't even read the fic, and already it makes me sad.

Does anyone know Latin well? by Fractal Dawn on 2012-04-07 08:12:00 UTC Reply

I need a quick consultation.

There is a defiant cry, as someone is running off to join a rebellion, which is supposed to mean, "Honor, freedom, and revenge." Due to the implicit 'for' in that (that it's for the sake of it etc) I eventually settled on a viable Latin translation being "Honore, libertate, et ultione/vindicta."

Anyone want to weigh in on this?

This is for that Hunger Games/Codex Alera thing? by firemagic on 2012-04-07 17:15:00 UTC Reply

I'm assuming that you want your agents to remark on the actual, grammatical way the characters would say that. But, being as the main characters are from Alera, then they might have slightly different grammar.

Yes, that monstrosity. by Fractal Dawn on 2012-04-07 19:26:00 UTC Reply

Well, if you want to go into linguistic differences, then you have to keep in mind that it's been two thousand years, with Germanic mercenaries as well as the Romans. The Aleran language is not Latin. It wouldn't be 'Latin with mild linguistic changes,' wouldn't be slightly different, it'd be a different language altogether.

That aside, I'm not going to be forgiving, because there's a matter of author intent. He meant to be impressive and know Latin. He failed. Either way, there is linguistic inaccuracy, and that's a charge.

Also: 'quod' is just plain wrong.

May the great furies be with you. by firemagic on 2012-04-07 23:44:00 UTC Reply

Ah, true.

Incidentally, I'm dead certain the naming is off.

"My name is Desiderius Tavarus Gaius. My father is Octavian Magnus Gaius, and my mother is Kitai Sabot-ha Gaius. "

So, three minis right off the bat (Did the Marat even use last names? Why is Desiderius named after his father's Canim nickname Didn't Tavi change his name so it was Gaius Tavarus Magnus? It's been a while since I read the books, but still...) What have you decided on for those? Mini-vord?

And: AIR CROCODILE? REALLY?

Trust me... by Fractal Dawn on 2012-04-08 03:17:00 UTC Reply

I have those charges and plenty others already. I assure you, I am being most thorough. *glowery determined face*

Apologies for the uneccessary rant, then. ;) by Shadow on 2012-04-08 03:44:00 UTC Reply

Go kill that crowbegotten fic. For Alera and grammar.

I haven't even read the fic, and already it makes me sad. by Shadow on 2012-04-08 01:14:00 UTC Reply

I don't know any Latin, but I DO know the Codex Alera, and yes, it's very off. For one thing, surnames and titles go first on all the Aleran names we see in the series; Desiderius's name is right there on the last page as, "Gaius Desiderius Tavarus." And you're right, the Marat don't use surnames: the Sabot-ha are the Gargant Clan, which Kitai, obviously, isn't a member of. Same for Tavi's name; the quote from him at the beginning of the epilogue is attributed to Gaius Tavarus Magnus. I suspect "Octavian" would still be used sometimes, but given that Desiderius is Tavi's son, he'd probably be using the one Tavi preferred, which evidence suggests is probably Tavarus. (I mean, he broke an eight-generation naming tradition to name his son that and, again, signed that quote as Tavarus.)

I also can't see Kitai calling herself "Gaius," but that's more of a characterization thing.

In the fic's defense, though, an air crocodile isn't much weirder than Attis's air shark.

(Also, I vote mini-vordknights or -vordbulks. ;) )

[/long rant]

Don't. Your brain doesn't need to boil. by FractalDawn on 2012-04-08 06:21:00 UTC Reply

Actually, near as I can tell, Tavi broke a thousand-year tradition with sliding over to Tavarus, which is how history remembers him; there's a mention somewhere of "the first Gaius Primus," implying there's been more than one. My own theory is that whenever there'd be civil war, due to Alera's existence when the Crown did pass to a new branch of the family, the numbering reset. The last set of eight was just the very last of the family, because apparently they stopped having affairs or something. There's also half a dozen reasons for Tavi to slam his hand down on switching to Tavarus--not least among them a message to the Canim, who are frankly only nominally independent at this point. But yes, so many charges for the names.

Whether or not she's ever Gaius Kitai is a curious question for the future.

Anyway, all of this is true, and the author actually gets the technicalities of furycrafting wrong, and there are half a dozen other issues. My biggest gripe with the fic is quite different, though, and you can wait until the mission itself to see it. It will be made quite abundantly clear.

I don't think it should be the knights or bulks; the wax spiders are so much more iconic. Also, so much creepier. As the first to dare this territory, I Hereby Designate!

Re: Don't. Your brain doesn't need to boil. by firemagic on 2012-04-08 17:53:00 UTC Reply

Well, whichever you choose, I want one for my Canim Agent Narav. (I really hope I got all the details of Canim blood-magic right with him)

Hmm... by Fractal Dawn on 2012-04-08 21:05:00 UTC Reply

I'm pretty sure that while Octavian Magnus probably counts because just no, and while it's all technically just wrong, the mistakes may not actually be mini worthy.
It's intentional, to try to create the AU. I hate AUs as a rule, but technically they needn't be burned from existence purely on principle. If it's done to try to reconcile two not-necessarily-fundamentally-incompatible universes, it might be reasonable.

Even if I want to set fire to it.

HOWEVER, when the mission's done, if/when there are any minis, if you want to talk a side story where Narav gets the mini, that could be fun to write.

About the powers: you forgot that they can summon eldritch abominations. Marcus and Tavi both mention tentacles.

Re: Hmm... by firemagic on 2012-04-09 00:31:00 UTC Reply

Oh, I thought that those were just constructs, not actual abominations. Huh.

I look forward to the successful completion of the mission. by Shadow on 2012-04-08 14:58:00 UTC Reply

Blasphemy against the great Jim Butcher is a terrible thing.

I'm not sure about the word honor... by Tawaki on 2012-04-07 15:04:00 UTC Reply

...but if you're looking for the nominative of the other two, that's libertas et ultio. If you're looking for the ablative, however, you're right.

I was. by Fractal Dawn on 2012-04-07 15:49:00 UTC Reply

I kept looking it up, and consistently found two words for honor: veneratio and, well, honor. With that, it's pretty clear one is a matter of personal code and the other, well, veneration, which is very clearly not the context.

Declension... yeah, I thought about that. Thing is, the words don't exist in a void with the statement. I seriously considered tossing the 'pro' in at the beginning, to punctuate it. Hypothetically nominative is right, but it just isn't a cool list of things. I dropped the 'pro' because it kept changing both ultio(ne/vindicta) to either "the revenge" or "the vengeance of" when I checked the translation against Google (trying to learn Latin grammar on the fly sucks okay). Neither connotation was what I wanted in context, so I went with ablative to preserve that spirit of the implied 'pro' of the intended English.

I'll probably mention both declensions, though, in the comment. Context is, by the way, that the badfic author wrote, "veneratio, licentia, quod ultionis."

Sounds Good by Mysterial on 2012-04-07 09:10:00 UTC Reply

I can only boast a few years of high school latin, but that looks pretty correct to me.