Dude...

Subject: Dude...
Author: SeaTurtle
Posted on: 2012-03-07 03:59:00 UTC

I'm no physicist, but I'm pretty sure multiverse theory does not work that way. My best explanation for the entire thing is similar to how Sweeper from Terry Pratchett's Night Watch puts it: "It says that if anything that can happen without breaking any physical laws, it must happen. [...] It means the universe is not infinite, and people's choices are far more vital than they think." (p.81)

As far as I know, magic, high fantasy stuff, and all the like cannot possibly exist according to our established laws of physics and are confined to fiction.

That doesn't make them any less wonderful, of course, and they still exist in our imagination.

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It's All Real by Sgt_Sporky on 2012-03-07 03:07:00 UTC Reply

Guys, I realized something today. Something important.

I realized that, since the universe is infinite, every possibility has occurred. This means that, somewhere incomprehensibly far away, there is another planet, precisely like Earth down to the position of every last atom of gold, where the only difference in anything at all ever is that I have a natural purple streak in my hair.

This also means that somewhere, Lord of the Rings, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, Harry Potter, and all our other beloved fandoms, are reality. It would only be a matter of advancing our technology far enough to get us there. Think about it.

Somewhere, there is a real Boromir, who is, right at this moment, taking arrows for Frodo. There is a real Fluttershy caring for a cute little bunny. There is a real Harry, defeating Voldemort. There is a real Martin the Warrior, battling Tsarmina of the Thousand Eyes. There is a real Sunflower Official, assigning the very missions the Assassins carry out each day, a real Mysterious Somebody attempted a coup d'etat, and a real Agent Kayliegh has Macespace. It's a mind-blowing possibility, isn't it?

Thoughts, anyone?

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Woah by Gone Rampant on 2012-03-08 17:57:00 UTC Reply

So wait- something like Mass Effect or Halo could still happen in a few hundred years? Hang on, why would I want The Covenant and The Reapers killing everyone?

But cool theory.
Well, sort of.++ by Mr. Eldritch on 2012-03-08 05:57:00 UTC Reply

Well, for one thing, we're pretty sure the universe isn't infinite, if only because if it were, it would instantly collapse due to gravity.

(If we assume it's going for infinite /time/, then yeah, any physically possible arrangement of matter will happen. Eventually. Like, we're talking gigaSagans of times longer that the entire age of the universe to date eventually, even for little things like human reincarnation, let alone planetary or societal. And then there's the Omega Point thing...)

However, some stuff just isn't going to happen. Anything actually physically possible will, but magic isn't just going to pop out of the ether, and the Discworld isn't going to hold together no matter how much quantum you throw at it.

Also, even if there is a multiverse, I'm pretty sure that trans-fictional travel doesn't exist. Because, goddammit, I imagined that there was an alternate-reality version of me with multiversal travel who was about to decide to come visit me SO MANY TIMES when I was a kid and nobody ever picked me up.

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Re: Well, sort of.++ by Sgt_Sporky on 2012-03-08 12:13:00 UTC Reply

String Theory. Strings hold the universe together. If this is true, than it could easily be infinite. Either String Theory is right, or Gravity isn't what it seems.

And who's to say that the magic isn't just super-advanced science they don't know is science? Any sufficiently advanced technology will appear as magic anyway, right? They never detailed the mechanics of magic in any of the involved universes, insofar as I know. Maybe that's what it is: sufficiently advanced technology. And they don't know that themselves, so they call it magic for lack of a better word.

Eh. Trans-fictional travel might work with, once again, sufficiently advanced technology. It's just teleportation over very long distances, if my little theory is right.

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Re: Well, sort of.++ by Anonymous on 2012-03-09 03:02:00 UTC Reply

Welll....

First off that's... that actually has nothing to do with how string theory works. At all.

Also, (at least under our current understanding of the universe,) some things just aren't possible in a physical medium. No matter how much "sufficiently advanced technology" you throw at things, a pony with wings the size of chicken's is never, ever, going to hit Mach 5. No, not even if you invoke nanotechnology.

Mm. by Aeidhryn on 2012-03-07 23:37:00 UTC Reply

Sorry to be the nasty downer in the happy party, but I just can't see some of the magic stories working. :(
Re: It's All Real by thecanvashat on 2012-03-07 20:39:00 UTC Reply

And therefore, every badfic that has ever been written exists... Including all the legendary badfics. And this means there is an infinite number of Mary Sues, and an infinite amount of versions of the PPC.

Oh my God, you mean Enoby exists? (nm) by TheScribe on 2012-03-07 22:05:00 UTC Reply

Re: Oh my God, you mean Enoby exists? by Sgt_Sporky on 2012-03-08 02:04:00 UTC Reply

Well shit. She does. The Fandom Space Mission has never been so important, then!

Wow... you just blew my mind.. (nm) by OpinionedAngel on 2012-03-07 14:10:00 UTC Reply
Well, actually... by TheScribe on 2012-03-07 13:21:00 UTC Reply

I have used this excuse billions of times to prove my fangirly theory that, YES, THERE IS A GALIFREY, GODDAMNIT.

It has comforted me in the many dark times of wishing for the Doctor.
Congratulations! The end is nigh. by doctorlit on 2012-03-07 05:40:00 UTC Reply

It is commendable for someone on such a ho-hum, unfantastic world to have finally figured it out. It's not every day one of the Lesser Worlds sees a spark of wisdom without the assistance of magic. However, each individual world must never become aware of the others, or of the greater World. I'm going to have to kill you and everyone who saw this thread now.

Have a good day.

(—doctorlit, who fears this may read as more morbid than he intended and is obviously kidding about the killing thing)
I already knew this. A million bajillion times over. by MAXinsanity (409) on 2012-03-07 04:16:00 UTC Reply

It doesn't blow my mind because I know that we'll never even come close to contacting other universes at all, yet alone within my lifetime.
Dude... by SeaTurtle on 2012-03-07 03:59:00 UTC Reply

I'm no physicist, but I'm pretty sure multiverse theory does not work that way. My best explanation for the entire thing is similar to how Sweeper from Terry Pratchett's Night Watch puts it: "It says that if anything that can happen without breaking any physical laws, it must happen. [...] It means the universe is not infinite, and people's choices are far more vital than they think." (p.81)

As far as I know, magic, high fantasy stuff, and all the like cannot possibly exist according to our established laws of physics and are confined to fiction.

That doesn't make them any less wonderful, of course, and they still exist in our imagination.

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Re: Dude... by Antigone68104 on 2012-03-07 11:55:00 UTC Reply

I don't remember where I saw this, but the best argument I've seen was that you can have an infinite number of apples and still not have a single orange. A parallel world where I was born male? Not much of a stretch. A parallel world where I'm living under Nazi rule? Scary, but still plausible. A parallel world where I can crush the skulls of annoying customers with a single thought? Not gonna find that one.
Well, it /can/... by Huinesoron on 2012-03-07 04:04:00 UTC Reply

... it's just wildly improbable. I mean, there's no actual rule saying that, for instance, the atoms in a sheet of paper can't all be simultaneously collided with by high-energy particles and rise in temperature enough to spontaneously combust just by coincidence as Gandalf McWizard happens to point his staff at it and to coincidentally do this every time... it's just that, statistically, such a thing would only happen once in a very large number of years/light-years.

But if the universe is infinite (which it probably isn't, sadly, in either time or space, but if it was) then the wildly improbable becomes a certainty.

hS

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Well... by SeaTurtle on 2012-03-07 04:13:00 UTC Reply

I can't manage to reconcile the fact that somewhere, Zelda CD-I has happened for real.

I just can't.

Therefore I must stick to my theory of "non-rule-breaking-probabilities" to avoid being driven insane by the awfulness.

Also... by Huinesoron on 2012-03-07 04:17:00 UTC Reply

... isn't the Sweeper's entire point that actually, everything-that-can-happen doesn't? I seem to remember Sam Vimes not killing his wife. So it's okay - allowances can be made for things which are stupid not happening, while keeping the awesome ones.

(And somewhere a real Justin Agent, not-the-DIO-there's-no-such-thing-hahaha, is reading this exact post through quantum fluctuations and wondering if he needs to do anything...)

hS

Ah, yes... by SeaTurtle on 2012-03-07 04:50:00 UTC Reply

The exact words are: "There is nowhere, however huge the multiverse is, where Sam Vimes as he is now has murdered Lady Sybil."(Character Rupture in a nutshell)

If my interpretation is correct, this means that the universe abides by certain laws and that there are certain things that simply can't happen, implying a certain degree of fate.

It's just that in my mind, fiction is fiction and will never be real.

Well, but hang on. by Huinesoron on 2012-03-07 04:56:00 UTC Reply

Let's take a look:

-------------------

As the sun rose, Huinesoron rode his bicycle through the silent streets. The asphalt was damp, whether with dew or the night's rain, he didn't know and didn't much care. All he cared about was getting home: home to his wife, home to his son, and (last but not least) home to bed.

A sound caught his ear, and he stopped the bike, looking round. In one of the trees overhanging the road (and he remembered when there were far more of them) a bird was singing, welcoming the new day in its own way. Huinesoron smiled. 'I know how you feel,' he murmured. 'Have a good one.'

And he rode on.

-------------------

That's fiction (I should know, and I've never done that), but it could be reality... let's see... this coming Thursday at the earliest (since I'm not cycling home until then). So what makes that different from LotR? Other than quality.

hS, pedant to the last

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To put it bluntly... by SeaTurtle on 2012-03-07 05:26:00 UTC Reply

Your passage is firmly anchored in our reality. It's like something that you can find in a diary entry.

LotR was written as fiction and intended to be interpreted as fiction. Rings of power, elves, dragons, and the like do not exist in our reality, and cannot exist either. One can write them convincingly, like Mr. Tolkien, but at the end of the day, he has written a fantasy series and thus his world cannot be directly compared to our own.

...woah. This has just gotten metaphysical.

What about other genres? by Huinesoron on 2012-03-07 05:34:00 UTC Reply

Would you allow the existence of an England where Jane Marple and Hercule Poirot solve murders? A star system where Mal Reynolds smuggles on the fringes of the law? A... er... something else where something else not-physics-violating happens?

hS, sticking to the Rule Of Three if it kills him

A one liner explanation... by SeaTurtle on 2012-03-07 05:43:00 UTC Reply

...if it was written with the intent of being fiction, then it should be appreciated as such.

It's not that I don't have an imagination, it's more like I alternate between two states of mind: serious and non-serious. I guess I'm stuck on serious mode when trying to think these types of situations out.

Re: A one liner explanation... by Sgt_Sporky on 2012-03-07 21:05:00 UTC Reply

Perhaps I should have just left this idea with myself. I'd like the believe that, somewhere, even as I type, Celestia and Luna lower their sun and raise their moon, changing day to night and hanging their stars in their sky, so very like our own, and yet so very far away. Maybe one day, contact will be made, from them to us with magic. But until then, I am content with my imaginary Fluttershy plushy. *snuggles imagined plushy*

Actually, I'm going to Halifax in about a week, so I might be able to get an actual Fluttershy plushy. Yay! If only I can convince whichever poor Corporal gets stuck as my buddy to go to Toys R Us and then into the section containing the MLP toys.

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Not at all! by Huinesoron on 2012-03-08 23:36:00 UTC Reply

The day the PPC Board can't handle a debate is the day a debate goes unhandled on the PPC Board!

hS

Oh my God. by PitViperOfDoom on 2012-03-07 03:17:00 UTC Reply

You, sir, have inserted the barrel of your magical fandom revolver into my ear and BLOWN MY MIND.

I have always wished that the Hetalia nations were real. Possibilities...

However, it also means that somewhere incomprehensibly far away, there is another planet, precisely like Earth down to the position of every last atom of gold, where the only difference is that I am a neo-Nazi. And that frightens me a little.

Wait, the nations aren't real? by AnnaBee on 2012-03-09 16:30:00 UTC Reply

I watch C-Span a lot. I'm pretty sure I've seen Alfred in the gallery a couple times, looking BORED TO TEARS. XD

But seriously. I like this idea a LOT. That means that everything wonderful I've dreamed of not only *can* happen, but already has somewhere.

And that person isn't you. It's someone who happens to share your genetic code, but hasn't had the experiences that make you you.

That's true. by PitViperOfDoom on 2012-03-09 18:20:00 UTC Reply

I'm pretty sure I spotted him in the crowd during the 2010 White House Correspondence dinner, laughing at Seth Meyers' jokes.

Alfred. Alfred everywhere. by AnnaBee on 2012-03-09 19:29:00 UTC Reply

The more you look, the more it's obvious that world history makes no sense because the nations are idiots.

Re: Oh my God. by Sgt_Sporky on 2012-03-07 08:48:00 UTC Reply

Well, I try not to think about those places. I'd rather just find my wonderful Fluttershy. But the chances of that happening are so ridiculously small it's actually depressing.

You know what's even scarier than the thought of us all being Neo-Nazis? Goddamn Daleks. I'm not even Whovian, but I know what they're like.

But let's focus on the ponies. The most depressing thing about that is that if, someplace, FiM is real, so is G3. But there's totally a Fluttershy out there, and we all want her. *cuddles imagined Fluttershy plushy, squees a little*

Also, I can't stand revolvers. I just think they're a terrible choice. Six shots at best, at least ten seconds reload time, a pain in the arse to carry around all that loose ammunition, not to mention the fact that revolvers are generally large, bulky, noisy, high-calibre weapons that are near impossible to conceal and will have about twenty guys on you with the first shot you fire. With revolvers, your best bet is actually a Pugnose .38, because they're a relatively small-calibre revolver (most are .45) with a short barrel, and it isn't quite so generally big. It's still a loud bugger, but it's actually better than a Colt, at least for my purposes.

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Re: Oh my God. by PitViperOfDoom on 2012-03-07 09:06:00 UTC Reply

If I could move to any universe, I would pick Ponyville in Equestria. It just seems so nice there, and I love small towns.

True, I do prefer semi-automatics when it comes to handguns. Lots of room in a magazine, easy to reload, and all. Revolvers do look cool, though. Especially if you're a cowboy.

That reminds me, steampunk! Somewhere is a steampunk universe!

(I know physics and the universe don't work this way, but it's fun to daydream.)

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Re: Oh my God. by Sgt_Sporky on 2012-03-07 12:10:00 UTC Reply

I am having this conversation with a woman, yes? Marry me. Yes, revolvers are BA and fun to use, but it's just not practical in the age of SMGs and automated turrets.

If I had the choice, I'd leave it all behind to go to Equestria. Even if I had to remain human, I would be happy there. I wouldn't miss much. I'd be too preoccupied with helping Fluttershy to think about the Internets, Scratch would take care of music when need be, and I honestly don't like my family. I'd be glad to be away from them. Besides, Equestria could use a human defender in the event of a crisis. The Elements do their job, but a little assistance would certainly help.

And if I couldn't go to Equestria, I'd probably choose Mossflower-verse. More specifically, Redwall Abbey or Salamandastron. I could fit in at either place, really. It's far more dangerous there than some other continua I could choose, that's what makes it fun, yeah?

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Equestria? Huh. by AnnaBee on 2012-03-09 16:35:00 UTC Reply

My school of thought on this matter is 'why pick one place when you can travel with the Doctor and see them all'. But that's just me.

If I *had* to just pick ONE, I'd go with Hogwarts. It's been my home since I was nine years old.
My list in descending order: Hogwarts, Narnia the Discworld, the world of Implied Spaces, Middle-Earth, or the Inkworld.

Most of the other continuua I like would be nice places to visit, but I sure as HECK would NOT want to live there. Example: The Firefly-'Verse, the Ender's Game-verse, the World of Darkness, the Bartimeus-'verse, the Terriverse...

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Re: Equestria? Huh. by Sgt_Sporky on 2012-03-13 13:38:00 UTC Reply

As much as I love the Potter-'verse, I really couldn't live there. As a Muggle, I wouldn't be able to enjoy the reasons I would be going there in the first place.

Middle-Earth? Too many Nazgûl, Orcs, Goblins, giant goddamn spiders, and other unpleasant etcetera, too few awesome parties to make up for it.

Narnia? Oh, Hell no. I wouldn't go there. I'd probably wind up doing my level best to kill Aslan and Peter, and where would that leave the continuum? It use to be a favorite, until I got old enough to notice all the religious undertones. That doesn't make the writing low-quality, but it just started to irk me. Aslan quickly became a very annoying character, I don't mind telling you, and I hated Peter anyway. And I could totally go off on a sexism rant about what Father Christmas said about women going into battle, but that would take too long.

I haven't read any of the other continuua you mentioned yet, although I plan on reading Discworld as soon as I finish off Watership Down.

In descending order here: Equestria, Mossflower, and then last but not least Mockingjay-era Panem. [SPOILERS COMMENCE] I know that last one sounds insane, but what better way to pass the time than sit on a roof in the beautiful Capitol, wait for a target, and help the forces of good? And to witness Coin's death would make my day.[SPOILERS END]

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Eh... by Anonymous on 2012-03-13 22:29:00 UTC Reply

See, Equestria's TOO pink and fluffy for me. I'd keep vomiting pink sugar everywhere...and then getting annoyed when I had hooves instead of hands... And then getting even MORE annoyed because I'd be allergic to all the tasty cakes and things. Oh, and wanting to STRANGLE Pinkie Pie for being annoying, but unable to, because see above. *has a DEEP-SEATED and slightly irrational hatred of the MLP continuum, due to having an EXTREMELY ANNOYING friend who was a pegasister... nuff said*

Well, yes... That's true. *sad half-smile* You forget, when you're fantasizing, that you wouldn't have any wizard DNA. I'd just be an incredibly jealous Muggle. I dunno, I could still wind up marrying Justin Finch-Fletchly or something. XD

... True. True enough. I wouldn't last five minutes, unless I stuck close to Bree/the Shire. I'd just want to learn all the LANGUAGES. *grin- amateur polyglot is an amateur*

I love Narnia. If I could live there, I'd do ANYTHING. I wouldn't even mind the religious overtones. [I'm somewhere in between Mormon and agnostic, for the record, and not too happy with God at the moment.] But... It's the most beautiful fictional world I think I've ever seen. And it's fantastic, without being as DANGEROUS as Middle-Earth.

Discworld is brilliantly funny. Still plenty of horrible ways to die, but brilliant. I'd even be able to get used to the Ankh-smell to live in a world like that. :D

Implied Spaces is too big and complicated and lovely to explain, so I'll just shoot you a link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implied_Spaces
It's every RPer's/PPC'ers wet dream. A multiverse where you can literally be anything you want to be, in any NUMBER of infinite universes. Also, you can die in a zombie apocalypse and live to tell the tale. What's NOT to love?

The Inkworld is the world of Inkheart/Inkspell/Inkdeath. Being able to read yourself into and out of books...
Anywhere by Diana Wynne Jones/Miyazaki would be a good place to live, too.

Watership Down is love. Good on you for reading it. :)

Oh, and I'd TOTALLY jump at being a PPC agent if I got the shot at it. All my useless skills would MEAN something! :D

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Re: Eh... by Sgt_Sporky on 2012-03-14 00:51:00 UTC Reply

Oh, yeah, I've read Inkheart/Inkspell/Inkdeath. It's been a while though. Dustfinger is goddamn awesome. Him and Orpheus.

I had a nightmare about Watership Down once. I was a rabbit. Got stuck in a snare like Thlayli did. Elil all around, and no Owsla to help me, no other rabbits at all. Then the elil vanished and Cowslip appeared with the others from that big warren and they danced around screaming, just as bad as the elil. Freaked me right out. Woke up with my headphones wrapped around my neck. Didn't sleep for the next two days.

What?! A deep-seated hatred for a thing as wonderful and wholesome as MLP? I assure you Equestria is not as pink and fluffy as you assume. If you watch the pilots, there's some serious stuff being done. The antagonist tries to kill our six friends no fewer than two times during the course of events, although the ending is kinda cheesy. And the S1 opener isn't even the best example. That would be S2 opener. It's goddamn hilarious, but still retains definite elements of danger. Another good episode is "Over a Barrel". Seriously, watch all of S1, and then go read "My Little Dashie". You will gusta the ponies after that. If you don't, my Agents owe yours a bottle of Bleepka once I get Permission.

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Heh. Hehehe. by AnnaBee on 2012-03-14 08:00:00 UTC Reply

I didn't like Orpheus much, mostly because he screwed Dustfinger over so bad. Dustfinger is one of my lust objects (how could you tell?) and so I tend to want to set things up so that he gets a happy ending.

Oh, the Watership curse words [and the word d'arvit] were the ONLY thing that got me through high school. I had a rather stupid teacher who tried to get me to stop saying 'frick', 'crap', 'darn', 'heck', 'stupid', and so on. So I started saying 'embleer', 'hraka', 'd'arvit', and such. It literally saved my life.

...If I'm GOING to watch small children's telly, I prefer Phineas and Ferb. >.>

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Re: Oh my God. by PitViperOfDoom on 2012-03-07 18:14:00 UTC Reply

Very true. I shot an assault rifle once, too. There was a lot less of a kick than I expected, but the thing was so loud I could feel it in my teeth.

Were I to go to Equestria, I would have to drag my brother along with me, because I don't think he'd forgive me if I didn't. And who needs internets when you're surrounded by ponies? That's like 80% of the internet right there.

Redwall's awesome, I would totally live there. Surrounded by good food and awesome people, and all I'd have to do to live comfortably is help out with dishwashing and such. Plus, they don't really have a real religion, so it's totally cool that I'm agnostic.

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Re: Oh my God. by Sgt_Sporky on 2012-03-07 20:56:00 UTC Reply

Barret .50 cal sniper rifles are louder. And the newer ones might burn you if you shoot funny.

As to living at Redwall, I'd be hard pressed to choose between there and Salamandastron. Salamandastron could always use another Sergeant, but Redwall would be much more comfortable. And I'm an Atheist, I think they'd even accept that. It would be equally easy to make friends in either place, and the fare is fine and plentiful at both.

But Equestria would be better than either. Food is still fine and plentiful, and, while I wouldn't dare eat anything furred for fear it's sapient, there are still fish I could eat as my meat/alternatives. There would be a great many jobs I could do, friends would be in no short supply, and of course I might be able to find some sort of untapped magic, should the matter of their world sink into me enough. And then there would be the matter of finally finding out why places like the Everfree obey our laws rather than theirs. Equestria just has so much more for me.

Hehe, 80% of the Internets. What's the other 20? Because it's not cooler.

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Barret .50s aren't rifles, you know? by Sergio Turbo on 2012-03-10 11:32:00 UTC Reply

They're ARTILLERY. Developed for extreme long range sniping and anti-vehicle duty. (And I think it cover "bullet-proof Sues too)

Military spec ammo not only can take down helicopters and aircrafts, but there are even armor piercing explosive incendiary versions.

That's it, with a single shot from that rifle you pierce a vehicle from side to side, blow up something inside and then set it on fire.

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Re: Barret .50s aren't rifles, you know? by Sgt_Sporky on 2012-03-13 13:22:00 UTC Reply

I was close enough. Anti-tank rifle, basically. It's just that it's not only tanks. Still fires bullets, not shells. There's still rifling in the barrel, unless someone figured out a way to make something halfway accurate without rifling. And it's still shoulder controlled. The kickback would probably dislocate your shoulder if you weren't wearing the right gear, though. And I was still right that it will burn your face if you shoot funny.

Yes, it would take care of "bulletproof" Sues. It would take care of them very well. One explosive round to the gut later, and all you have to clean up is the mist of blood that fell over everything, and a couple of stray body parts that you could easily just put through the Cafeteria's meat grinder. It's not like anyone would notice the difference in the food anyway.

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Yay! Um... by Gone Rampant on 2012-03-14 17:40:00 UTC Reply

*Looks down at food* You haven't put this into practice, have you?

Oh, you son of a-

It's not one of mine. by Sergio Turbo on 2012-03-14 17:46:00 UTC Reply

Still have to kill the first one with that rifle.

I Meant The "Sue as food" thing. (nm) by Gone Rampant on 2012-03-14 18:46:00 UTC Reply

Yeah. by Sergio Turbo on 2012-03-13 17:24:00 UTC Reply

I thought it had to be fired only from its bipod, though. Well, one of my Agents owns an M82A1, and is going to use it in his next mission. He's going to fire it from a prone position with bipod unfolded, as he's not very muscular.

Re: Oh my God. by PitViperOfDoom on 2012-03-07 23:23:00 UTC Reply

I'm afraid I have reached the end of my extremely limited gun know-how. All I know I learned at Venture Shooting Sports Weekend a couple years ago.

The only problem with either universe for me is that I'm a total carnivore. But I think I could give up chicken if it meant living in Redwall or Ponyville. But yes, Equestria seems so much more fun, even if I'm human when I'm there. Or especially, it would be nice to keep my opposable thumbs.

The funny thing is that I didn't even notice I did that when I said 80%. I must be subconsciously a genius. Who knew?

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