That does seem needlessly mean, yeah.

Wiki stuff by hermione of vulcan on 2013-05-30 17:11:00 UTC Reply

So, first of all, thanks to Nesh and doctorlit for protecting the Mary Sue page and to VM for blocking the troll.

Secondly, it was recommended that a bit of discussion I started on the talk page for the FAQ: For Other People be moved to the Board.

So, there's a section on the FAQ that discusses the "It's not my fault I write badly: I have a learning disability!" excuse. While this is definitely something the FAQ should cover, I feel it was done poorly. It starts with a a section marked "[This rant is courtesy of Tviokh.]", which...well, here's a quote from it: "I really don't care if you have ADHD, your parents were killed in a fiery wreck, your dog bit off your right arm and a cat pissed in the still bleeding wound. Your. Story. Needs. Work."

...

I'll just let that speak for itself. Luckily, there's another "rant" courtesy of an Anonymous Fanfiction Writer, which makes good points like "having a disability doesn't stop you from writing a good story. It means you have to put in more effort to overcome your weaknesses." To me, it's a simple matter of removing the...mean rant, and keeping the less rant-like rant.

Another idea I had was some testimony from PPCers with learning disabilities, or, if no one felt comfortable, stories of famous authors who overcame learning disabilities.

Thoughts?

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Seems that we're agreed... by son_of_heaven176 on 2013-06-01 17:53:00 UTC Reply

that the Tviokh rant it does not put the PPC in a very good light. So, I suggest that the Tviokh rant be deleted (or at least pared down), as it seems that the only point of contention is whether to add a testimonial, and if so, whose.
To officially weigh in-- by Neshomeh on 2013-05-31 18:03:00 UTC Reply

I'm in favor of removing the Tviokh rant, though I'll admit that I'm fond of it in a nostalgia-goggles sort of way. It definitely comes on too strong, but I never understood it to literally mean that we don't care if something horrible happened to a fanwriter. Rather, maybe you shouldn't expect to do your best work under those conditions, and neither should you expect us to think it is if you post it anyway.

... Actually, that's covered in a previous bit of the FAQ, so it doesn't belong in the learning disability section anyway. So, there you have it. {= )

As for testimonials, I like the idea, but have only the flimsiest basis for contributing myself (was on meds for depression/anxiety in high school and college; haven't needed them since). I know we have people with Asperger's and such, though. Maybe a more specific post title would get their attention?

~Neshomeh

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Re: Testimonials by Lily Winterwood on 2013-05-31 18:23:00 UTC Reply

Could we potentially have more than just learning disabilities in a testimonial section? Because while I can't attest to having a learning disability, I did have to learn English as a second language (along with many others on the Board).

In that same vein, I might also like to contribute to the age section in the FAQ, since, unless you of the oldbies haven't guessed already, I joined the PPC when I was thirteen, or just a couple months shy of it. Having written a good deal of good and bad fics and missions at that age, I can probably provide something for the badfic author at the same age that I had been when I first started taking writing seriously.

I'm not in charge of this, for the record. by Neshomeh on 2013-06-02 16:54:00 UTC Reply

That is, I don't want to be in charge of this right now, because I don't have the time. I can change the protection on the article so it's no longer admin-only, though, at least for the time being.

That said, I don't see why we couldn't do what you're suggesting.

~Neshomeh

Well, I'd say we could put any potential rough drafts... by Lily Winterwood on 2013-06-02 16:55:00 UTC Reply

...on the Talk Page, so that others can go over it, make changes if needed, and then it goes onto the main page. We kinda don't want someone writing another caustic rant again.

What is this?! by son_of_heaven176 on 2013-06-01 17:45:00 UTC Reply

Lily WInterwood, writer behind Christianne and Eledhwen, isn't a native English speaker? This is a surprise!

If you don't mind my asking, what is your native language?

Chinese, actually. by Lily Winterwood on 2013-06-01 17:51:00 UTC Reply

To be honest, though, I came to the US of A when I was young enough to learn the language with everyone else, and unfortunately I speak my first language more like a second language these days because of that.

But yeah, English is technically not my first language.

I can contribute to the language section too. (nm) by Sergio Turbo on 2013-06-01 11:53:00 UTC Reply
I don't have any learning disabilities, by Ailavyn Siniyash on 2013-06-01 00:05:00 UTC Reply

but I could add something to the 'age' section, definitely. After all, I just turned fourteen a few weeks ago. But then again, I would probably need Permission. *shrug*

-Aila

It's pretty blunt, but it does get the point across. by Ugolino on 2013-05-31 12:09:00 UTC Reply

I think it'd be better suited as a response for something other than "learning disability" though.

Depends what point we're trying for. by Huinesoron on 2013-05-31 15:45:00 UTC Reply

If the point we want to make on our FAQ for other people to read is that we have zero consideration for bad writers' feelings, someone like Tviokh is the person we ought to quote.

If we want to convey that we have zero tolerance for bad writing, then we will want more directed anger, such as saying 'No matter what your circumstances, by posting your story on the internet you have put it on display, and accepted the responsibility for its quality'. This is essentially a rewording to get away from the specific targetting.

If, as a third option, we want to give the message that even writers with difficulties can write well - and that therefore, since you are posting on the internet, we assume you are willing to make the extra effort that might be required - then something like what h.o.v. suggested would work nicely, though I can't contribute anything specific to it.

And finally, if we want to tell people that having a learning disability or allied trade is a free pass to not do whatever it is you have trouble doing, we can simply say so.

Personally I think we ought to be aiming for 3, with a side-order of 2 ('That aside, if your story is terrible, we /will/ tell you, and yes, we might still PPC it'), and a hint of 4 ('We are happy to offer constructive criticism to authors who actually want to improve their writing, and in many cases, members of the PPC will even offer to beta-read for you!'). And I think if anyone is operating along the lines of 1, they need to seriously consider whether they're in the right community.

hS

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Clarification: by Huinesoron on 2013-05-31 15:46:00 UTC Reply

'1' in my final sentence being 'we have zero consideration for bad writers' feelings', not specifically the use of Tviokh's rant under any circumstances.

hS

That does seem needlessly mean, yeah. by Ekyl on 2013-05-30 21:09:00 UTC Reply

Re: First rant
Hm. by Karen on 2013-05-30 20:07:00 UTC Reply

The "mean rant" does sound poorly done. I don't have any stories of horror for you, but I do know that working on your story is the only way to make it good, whether you have a learning disability or not. People with learning disabilities or other such do have to work harder on their stories, but I'd say that they deserve a little more leeway where SPaG is concerned.