All that would be required...

Canon-breaking canon by KatonRyu on 2011-12-19 14:47:00 UTC Reply

Pokemon Plus Nobunaga's Ambition. I don't know how many of you have heard from it; I first learned of its existence about an hour ago. Apparently this game will be set in feudal Japan, and I understand that it's a crossover between Pokemon and another series (Nobunaga's Ambition?).

In any event, the idea seemed nice enough, until I saw one particular Pokemon in the trailer for it: Mewtwo. Mewtwo is a clone of Mew, made by human scientists. He wasn't around in feudal Japan, and while he sent the main characters back in time at the end of Mewtwo Strikes Back (or maybe he merely teleported them and changed the weather back to how it was before they left, and no time travel whatsoever was involved) he has never been known to travel through time.

Now, I don't know how much of this game is to be considered canon, since I believe Game Freak isn't really involved in it, but if we're to believe it has its place in the canon...well, then they've destroyed Mewtwo in the process. Mewtwo's backstory is so ingrained into his character and accounts for everything that drives him; a change like this would totally destroy him.

Not to mention his origins: his name is Mewtwo because he was cloned from Mew, what other justification could there be for his name? He doesn't go around saying it constantly like other Pokemon do. All of this got me thinking, what is the PPC's policy on such events? Obviously this development could be a threat to the canon, but who are we to fight the very creators? I'd like to know everyone's thoughts on it.

It will simply be a new, separate canon. by doctorlit on 2011-12-19 15:20:00 UTC Reply

Pokémon + Nobunaga's Ambition will be a canon AU, like Marvel Zombies or the musical adaptation of Wicked. (Pokémon is hardly a stranger to alternate canons itself, what with the games, anime and manga all having different characters and events.) The Mewtwo in this new game will probably be a different Mewtwo than the ones that have appeared previously—if it gets any backstory at all. I suspect the Pokémon are just being thrown in as fan candy to draw attention to a less popular game series.

The PPC recognizes all published canons, even ones we don't necessarily enjoy or "believe" in. *coughTwilightcough*

Wizard of Oz is a great example by Calista on 2011-12-19 18:45:00 UTC Reply

There's one canon, and then adaptations that create separate continua.

Original books by L. Frank Baum--Dorothy's adventures in Oz; Oz is real and her family eventually move there. Oz is a whimsical country where very little is serious, suspension of disbelief is the norm, and even death is unusual.

Movie adaptation: Oz is a dream or hallucination Dorothy had while in a coma. Some changes made to canon, but this is the major one.

"Wicked", bookverse: The Wicked Witch gets a name, Elphaba. Oz turns into a serious country with involved politics and religion. The Talking Animals get backstories. Dorothy is mostly off-screen and becomes an intruder rather than the center of action; in fact, she's a bit of an in-universe Mary Sue in that she acts to make major changes with little knowledge of the canon, treating it as her personal playground. (I do not believe the author means to accuse L. Frank Baum of writing Dorothy as a Sue, though; it's just a consequence of the much more serious interpretation of the actions of an innocent girl in an innocent world, transferred into a much more serious world.)

"Wicked", musicalverse: The story is based on the book, but it's a lot more upbeat and hopeful. Elphaba has major magical powers that she doesn't have in the books, and her fate is different. Dorothy is once again offscreen, and is treated like an intruder who doesn't know what she's doing.

A few more minor adaptations exist and can be considered anything from AUs of one of the other universes, good or bad parodies, or small continua in their own right.

When does a continuum split?--I would say: It splits into two continua when the new continuum is significantly different from the old continuum, and strong enough to stand on its own independent of the old.

In a way, fanfic that departs from canon too much tries to do this--the multiple canon breaks create a story that is unrecognizable from canon. But because the story is not strong enough to stand on its own, it leans on the original canon, threatening to damage it by pulling it out of shape.
Oh okay by KatonRyu on 2011-12-19 17:23:00 UTC Reply

I wasn't really sure on what the PPC stance on it was, so thanks for clarifying! Anyway, while it's true that Pokemon has a lot of different canons, the main traits and origins of the Pokemon are to my knowledge at least fairly consistent with on another, and this would form a serious breach of that.

Then again, I hardly think a crossover like this would be thought out well, and is indeed purely written to cash in on Pokemon's fame. I suppose it might as well be canon though; the HP movies are canon too and I'll never stop bitching about those (and in particular Deathly Hallows Part Two) either. In that sense I'm quite the hypocrite, since I'm more than willing to accept the LotR movies as canon because I can't fight myself through the books.

As for Twilight, I must admit that I own all the books and I did enjoy them somewhat, despite the characters being cardboard cutouts of Mary-Sues. (I refuse to address Edward as a Stu, because for that manliness is needed)

All that would be required... by Phobos on 2011-12-19 18:45:00 UTC Reply

...would be for Mewtwo to be the spawn (in one way or another) of Mew. That gives you a basis for the name. Everything else can follow from there.

That said, I think that it is a very bad idea to judge a game/movie/story/whatever before you have played/watched/read/whatevered it. Both Pokemon and Nobunaga's Ambition have large followings (especially in Japan), though Pokemon's following is far larger, and both are good games (I own Nobunaga's Ambition for the NES). Game Freak (who is involved in development) and Tecmo Koei both have long histories in the industry and seem to know what they are doing.

Being that the trailer I have seen for this game was in Japanese, I think it is more likely that they are combining two series that are popular in Japan for Japanese fans of both games. It may not even make it over to English-speaking markets, being that there is little interest in Nobunaga in those places.

Tl;dr: I would give it a shot before I accused people of making a poorly thought out game and trying to cash in on Pokemon's fame, especially when the other game involved has been around and active since 1983.