Subject: Aaahhhh...thanks much. (nm)
Author:
Posted on: 2011-11-30 19:02:00 UTC
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More questions (and an issue) by
on 2011-11-30 17:52:00 UTC
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1) What happened to Trojie' and Pads' missions? I get a notice saying I don't have access rights to view the entries when I click the links.
2) Are we allowed to add to minis things that are neither specified nor contradicted in the OFU?
3) At the end of the last sporking of That Series, chelonianmobile said "I regret to say I have lost my copies of these fics in a virus attack, during which I had to clean out several files. Attempts to find them on the Wayback Machine proved fruitless. So all but “Among The Roses”, of which I still have a copy, have been lost to the ages, unless anyone else saved them."
I have found the original fics. Should I or should I not put links to them on the wiki page?
4) This is the issue. I quote parts the wiki article on Permission that talk about writing samples:
"We want to see whether you can write well, basically."
"Basically anything except a PPC story or a co-written work, as long as it reflects your ability to use spelling, punctuation, and grammar."
"Permission is not withheld very often, but when it is, the Permission Giver in question should give you a reason (or several). The most common reasons, singular or in combination, are:
* Having no idea who you are when you ask;
* Ideas that really, really contradict the spirit of the original (i.e. Sue or Stu agents, SRS BSNS, mean-spiritedness);
* Really bad writing. Not just a few typos, but horrible writing."
I've seen several Permission requests (not mine) denied not for any of those reasons, but because the writing sample had flaws in pacing, depth of characters, "no real development or change that occurs within the story," and other such things.
From the wiki article, I got the distinct impression writing samples were supposed to be checking that the asker knows how to use SPaG well so we aren't hypocrites, not how good he/she is at pulling together a complete short story with good characterization and whatnot. I've definitely read official missions that could have done rather better at developing characters and pacing. What makes those writers so different from the ones who ask for Permission now?
I'm getting a little stressed here. I know my own request was denied because of agent issues, and I'm working on that, but some people have been denied multiple times for the non-SPaG stuff in their samples.
What exactly *are* PGs looking for in a writing sample? -
Speaking only for myself here, of course. by
on 2011-12-01 00:17:00 UTC
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1) No idea. Sorry.
2) ...no idea. Sorry.
3) Linking is good.
4) This is why I'm sometimes so hesitant to respond to requests. (SOMETIMES. Usually, I either see it and go "Ah, I'll get to that later," not having the time at the moment, and then July or someone Ninjas it out from under me, or I don't see it.) Because I am terribly uncomfortable saying "Yes, absolutely, go ahead!" to someone whose writing I really don't like. Or, as July pointed out, who I don't feel is going to do the PPC any favors. (And here we all owe Nakkel a big hand for being the shameless troll that he is, and providing us with a perfect example subject.)
But the request isn't... doing anything wrong that I can pin-point. (I will say that, unlike what July says below, I wouldn't say yes to someone if I noticed a lot of SpaG errors.) So I just worry and think and go over it in my head repeatedly until someone else comes along and takes the decision out of my hands.
...I'm actually not very good at this job.
It just doesn't sit right with me, stamping "Yes Go Ahead" on someone who I don't think has grasped A) the PPC, in general, B) writing consistently in character, C) syntax skills in English. If I can make good points and it's a clear Yes or a clear No, then fine. But if it's not a clear Yes, I can't just red-stamp it-- and if it's not a clear No, I want someone else's say-so before I go ahead.
So-- what I'm looking for in a writing sample? Good spelling, good grammar, a style that doesn't crunch like a fancy cake being shoved haphazardly into a too-small box. A deft hand with the canons, and someone whose face I recognize from more than just "Hi Newbie!" posts and "Hey, when going for permission..." posts.
That's about it, really. Make sense? -
A response. by
on 2011-11-30 19:44:00 UTC
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1) Trojie and Pads' missions ca be found on a dreamwidth journal.
2) I am unsure what you mean by that, please elaborate.
3) You're welcome to put them on the wiki.
4) And as to your issue, you just explained it right there with those quoted portions. "We want to see whether you can write well, basically." Flaws in pacing, a lack of depth of character, and no real development within the story indicate a basic inability to write. We- the PGs- are not here just to filter out basic SPaG issues. When your own writing has the same problems that we nail as being elements of badfic, spelling and grammar or not, it means that you shouldn't have permission yet.
I can't speak for the people who got permission who you think are lacking in characterization and pacing, but as Araeph put it in one of desdendelle's earlier shots at getting permission, PPCers shouldn't be just 'entry level' writers. We need to know about writing and how it works. If we don't, we can't identify the unintentional humor that can be caused by use of questionable sentence structure and word choice. We also wouldn't know how to improve our own works.
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Beyond that, there are so many spin offs now, that we should be trying to have better quality for new writers. What incentive is there to read their things if the writing is mediocre, and the only thing they have a handle on is grammar and spelling, and their characters aren't interesting, and the way they write is dull? There are other, better things to read, PPC or not.
The important element in this isn't Spelling and Grammar. If anything, that's just a surface matter. I can't speak for other PGs, but I'm more inclined to give permission to someone whose story and agents for their request are legitimately interesting, and they hit the right spots as far as humor goes, know how to pace their story, or reveal or do something that makes me want to read more, even if their SPaG is off, than someone whose SPaG is technically perfect but has a story and characters that are the written equivalent of cardboard: Flat, without contrast, no change, tastes like cardboard, and soggy when wet.
SPaG can always be fixed, either when they learn it themselves- if they don't have any learning disabilities that get in the way of it- or with the help of a beta.
No one can help with the cardboard stories and characters, short of rewriting everything to the point where the original author's work is all but gone.
Beyond the issue of SPaG, there have also been incidents where previous PGs have also denied Permission on the basis and/or concern that the person who gave the sample would go against the spirit of the PPC on various items, such as lacking participation in the community or not getting along with it and its values (for example, if Nakkel decided to ask for permission, there's a higher chance of HQ being invaded by corgis than him getting permission due to his trolling nature that usually involves him bashing on things and people, which isn't PPC or cool at all) or trying to make the PPC grimdark, depressing, and utterly serious without the odor of humor to it at all.
Getting permission is more than just knowing how to write a sentence. -
My two cents by
on 2011-12-01 12:20:00 UTC
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As one of the examples (haha) I have to add that while they can be harsh sometimes, the PGs aren't out for your skin or something. They really care, and are willing to help. The best examples, from my own experience with them, are that DML went over my idea for a spinoff with me, and the RPG-ish thing that July staged a few days ago in the IRC channel in order to help me with my sample. So, even if they shoot you down, don't take it too hard.
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Examples for 2. by
on 2011-12-01 00:51:00 UTC
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The Portal OFU says little about the minis except that they are Frankenturrets and tend to take on some characteristics (usually just eye color as of now) of the canons they are misspellings of. I get the impression they're full size as well, not miniature.
Examples: If one that's explicitly mentioned to be at the OFU were to pop up in a mission I did, would it be acceptable if I were to describe that the "mini" has a sticker or something on it saying it belongs to the OFU?
Another thought I had was that the name of the "mini" would be etched somewhere on it, mostly because of the sheer amount there's going to be in my first mission. -
Re: More questions (and an issue) by
on 2011-11-30 18:48:00 UTC
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To answer the first, the problem is that the links on the wiki take you to the missions on Livejournal. I'd though I'd fixed that by redirecting all the links to their Dreamwidth account for their PPC stuff, but I guess I missed a few or something. Their Dreamwidth can be found here, and has all their missions, with the exception of the one Trojie did with July, and maybe one or two others.
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Aaahhhh...thanks much. (nm) by
on 2011-11-30 19:02:00 UTC
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