I said that everyone past a certain point should be UP FOR permission giver status. They would still have to be voted on (and decide they want to do it).

I'm a bit rushed right now, as I'm going to be going to a July 4th party, but let me scribble out some initial thoughts:

I'm glad you posted this now, as I was getting impatient to discuss what was going on with the IRC. A bit ago Neshomeh closed down the IRC channel for a week, which upset me because It wasn't obvious who decided it, what it's intended goal was, and whether this could happen again, arbitrarily, by people that aren't even regular participants in the IRC.

We definitely need more PGs. There were a few times where I had given some concrit for some Permission Requests and wound up trying to pm permission givers to take a look at them because they were close to being dropped off the front page with no comment from any PGs.

On the subject of precedent: precedent is probably the major reason I haven't done any missions yet, as I still haven't completed reading the Original Series. I haven't read it because I don't particularly like it. I'm not a big fan of killing sues, I'm not big on LotR, nor am I particularly invested in Jay or Acacia's characters. Obviously I still like the PPC - I read and enjoy many missions, just not the ones that are embodied by the OC. But it's still more or less required reading, and I don't feel like doing homework to participate in what's supposed to be a fun exercise.

I think that Permission is mostly fine the way it is. However, the "one-month rule" should be adjusted into a "one-month guideline", in order to make permission more flexible (which is what many people want to do). That is, instead of saying "Hang around for at least a month.", say something like, "Hang around long enough for people to get to know you. That usually takes at least a month." This change would make "one month" less of a time limit, since looking at the result summary shows that many Boarders think fixed time limits aren't a great idea.

As for "less bound by precedent", I agree. Precedent is useful, but you shouldn't HAVE to follow it. The PPC is supposed to be fun (and not SRS BSNS), and becoming too tied up in what was done before gets in the way of that. So, I think that the new PPC policy on precedent should be, "It's good to follow precedent, but if you think of something better/funnier, feel free to use that instead." Of course, TOS is the closest thing we have to a canon around here, so breaking with that should be discussed (a bit) before going ahead.

Thanks for slogging through my (rambly) two cents.

Cheers, hS, for organising this. It's immensely helpful. On most points I don't have much to say, save that it's interesting to see the different viewpoints, however...

Reagrding PG selection, I agree with Phobos on pretty much all points. The idea that Permission can be granted automatically if four non-PGs say it should... I'm not comfortable with it, not because I don't trust the majority of people around here to make good judgements, but because off the top of my head I can think of at least four who have been on this board in the past few years who would, it seems, support just about anyone, and that undermines the entire point. Also, if there aren't enough active PGs around, then someone might find themselves getting Permission by default only to have PG turn up later and say (or just think), "Actually... this really isn't up to standards." And it would hurt more feelings to be told to stop afterwards than beforem, which is the last thing we want.

As for the hats - well, hS, you did ask for it. ;)


(For the record, I am sorry for not being here and looking at Permission requests more often. I try. I fail, but I do try. This entire post has put me on a massive guilt trip, and I feel awful, but even that can't slow time down, and I'm just too busy. So... to everyone whose Permission requests could have been answered by me if I'd been around, and to every PG who's had to do twice as much work because of it, I am sorry!)

Thank you, hS, for all the work you did on this. It is much appreciated.

Responses to the responses:

The Wiki: the only way to make it more comprehensive is if people step in to help. So it looks like we have 11 volunteers. I will say, however, that not everything needs a page of its own. A minor character that had one line in one mission and who had little characterization in that time, for instance, does not need a page. The same goes for gadgets, characters, and continua that have not made an appearance yet in the PPC.

The IRC: I feel there is a minimum of control in there already. However, if you feel I am not correct in this, or you have ideas on how to make it less controlled, I am willing to discuss it. I personally think more control is needed, along the lines that were being discussed down the board.

Permission: That someone can be active in the IRC and still get the "we don't know who you are" reason is a little laughable. I know that Dann, VM, and (to a lesser extent) Nesh are all in the IRC. The problem is, Nesh is really the only PG that answers permission requests. VM answered one of the 5 that came up this week, so I will let her off the hook a little. We need permission givers that will actually give permission. I don't remember the last time some of them replied to a permission request. This is a major problem that I think bears discussing.

However, I think that giving everyone the ability to give permission is a bad way to go. The point of a PG is that the community picks people that they respect to make good decisions. If we give everyone the ability to grant permission, then it would likely result in a full vote being taken for every permission request, to make sure that we all agree. Representative Democracy (PGs) vs Democracy (Everyone can give permission).

Giving everyone PG status after a certain point also seems like a bad plan to me. If we base it on how long they are here, then we could potentially have some people introduce themselves to us and disappear for a while then grant permission when they show back up after a year of being gone. If we base it on mission count, then we have to take away VM's PG status, as I don't believe she has written any missions.




On a not-related-at-all note: hS, are you in charge of Fanficland? I have a fever, and the only prescription is the Badfic Game. It should be about that time, I think. I just hope it happens before the end of July, because once August hits I have no time.

If we put subforums in the Board, we can have one of them devoted to helping others write better. I imagine the writing workshop subforum would have things like writing from prompts, concrit, keeping the various types of English separate, research help...

If we do make a writing workshop, I propose that it need not be exclusively for PPC writing.

to answer the answers.
A few points I found:
Role of the whole PPC: IMO, I've always seen 'kill & mock' and 'have fun' to go hand in hand (I hope I can make myself clear in this!). By that I mean that if you don't have fun while mocking a badfic, and take it as a completely serious business, I guess (again, IMO) you're missing the point. PPC is just as serious as SRS BSNS.
Changes (in general): I find this concept of 'less bound by precedent' strange, because it's not so difficult to add a new concept to the PPC. I for one wanted to add a new disease, Author Note Shock or ANS, for those times when A/N are really stupid. I looked up on the Wiki and found that nothing of the sort existed, so I dropped to the IRC and asked if it was ok; some people agreed, the other didn't say they were against it, so I'll use the ANS in my mission. But it also depends on what you want to add or delete.
I'm also totally amazed by the 'more & less controlled' IRC. I don't get it either.
The layout of the Board: I like this one; I usually get lost in the 'subforum' type.
And last, the 'respect-drama' issue. I guess this thing has to do with people, because I can't imagine all PPCers against a single person, so nothing can be done unless we start to expell people; and that wouldn't be a solution either.
Hats: cover them in sprakling glitter and eat them is unhealthy, unless the glitter's properly treated to make it edible

It's thoroughly interesting even for people like me who haven't been around very long.

Thanks for taking the time and effort to sort through the responses, hS! ^_^