Re: Image Pluggery and Discussion: Mary Sue Meme

Image Pluggery and Discussion: Mary Sue Meme by Aster Corbett on 2011-03-30 19:49:00 UTC Reply

OK, guys. So I frequent Deviantart. Not only are there a zillion illustrated Mary Sues there, there are plenty of mary-sue-haters.

And MANY. MANY. MANY people who have no idea what a Mary Sue is or are sore about their OCs being called one. Go there and search 'Mary Sue' in the searchbar. You will get a lot of stuff about people completely misunderstanding what a Mary Sue is.

I got fed up with it and decided to fill out some Mary Sue artmemes demonstrating:

an otherwise 'normal' or 'boring' character can be a Mary Sue if the author crafts her selfishly.

an otherwise 'Sue-ish' character can be fine if the author/artist crafts her well.

(part 1) (part 2)

... So, discuss. How do people see Mary Sues, interpret the definition, and take action elsewhere? And does it bug you as much as it bugs me?

Is it bad that I want to see ... by Laburnum on 2011-03-31 12:02:00 UTC Reply

... a full novel about the non-Sue Mayri Rosewind Syue? She might need renaming but the story sounds pretty good.

Not at all. by Phobos on 2011-03-31 15:50:00 UTC Reply

In fact, I think that was the point.

And I agree, it could be an interesting story.

Sue vs OC by jakraziel on 2011-03-31 00:46:00 UTC Reply

A sue is a character you want to be, that is the way they start out as a fantasy. An OC is character created in an attempt to be interesting to others. Thats how I'd put it.

Re: Sue vs OC by Adamantine on 2011-03-31 23:49:00 UTC Reply

I'd say that a sue is more of a Glorified Self-Insert, a mirror of the author with all of the flaws removed and all of the positive attributes amplified, to the point that even the story itself must love the character.

An OC, on the other hand, is a character with a balance of positive/negative attributes such that it feels like a real person.
I kind of disagree... by caddy-shack on 2011-03-31 02:23:00 UTC Reply

I want to be Batman, but that doesn't make him a Sue. You might be talking about a character that someone makes themselves, which would be more accurate. But that isn't a big factor, well, to me anyway. Wanting to be a character you make doesn't make them bad, it's when you start giving special things and treatment is when they become a Sue.

But... by jakraziel on 2011-03-31 13:33:00 UTC Reply

Batman was created to be interesting, not because the author wanted to be him.

Re: Image Pluggery and Discussion: Mary Sue Meme by Karen Elaine DuLay on 2011-03-30 21:49:00 UTC Reply

I like your art, for starters. It's a good demonstrator of how Mary Sues and OCs can be alike, but different.

Mary Sues are, more or less, the ones the entire fic is about. If an author places so much emphasis on them, to the exclusion of canon and other characters, you have a Mary Sue on your hands. Spreading the action around, giving your OC faults and mistakes and a gradual change throughout the course of the story, helps prevent Mary Sue-ism from occurring.

It seems to me that it's not about what the character has, it's about how they got it. If an OC has had to work for hours to get merely proficient with a weapon, and they occasionally/frequently find someone better than them with it, they're realistic and well-portrayed. If a character simply picks up the weapon and is amazing at it, that's a Mary Sue.

I'm still slightly unsure on some of the finer points of spotting Sues, but my general definition right now is along the lines of "they're what it's all about." If someone doesn't like them, it's because that person isn't smart enough to see how amazing they are. If someone likes them romantically...well, of course they do! Weapons? They're a natural. Magic? Of course!