Subject: Are deliberate Suefics fair game? (nm)
Author:
Posted on: 2013-05-14 13:26:00 UTC
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Are deliberate Suefics fair game? (nm) by
on 2013-05-14 13:26:00 UTC
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Thanks for asking this, Riese! Also... by
on 2013-05-14 15:19:00 UTC
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What if it's a very obvious Sue--so obvious that the summary says 'this is a Mary-Sue--if you don't like Sues, don't read'? And it's a pretty bad Sue, who would make excellent sporking material? Are those fair game?
Because I have one. She's some sort of magic user and tags along with the Fellowship, something like that. I just wasn't sure if I should take it, since it literally has a Mary-Sue warning in the summary.
~DF -
Yeah, that's sort of like the one that I'm looking at. by
on 2013-05-14 18:08:00 UTC
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It has a pair of Sues in it, back-to-back. One gets killed, the other one appears. Also, tremendous OOC-ness, Fourth wall breaking, and general dickery. The author seems to think that it's a good idea to comment on the story that he's writing as he's writing it, without bothering to label his comments in any way. So unmarked A/Ns EVERYWHERE.
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Defining Mary-Sue. by
on 2013-05-14 15:57:00 UTC
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I've seen a few quotes about this in the last few days (there's a thread on the way in the middle future), and what I've taken away from them is this:
We have to be very clear on what makes a Mary-Sue. And for me - and I think for the PPC - one key component is that she is badly written. I don't believe there is such a thing as 'a well-written Mary-Sue', because that's like saying 'a brand-new scrapheap'. It's an oxymoron. Mary-Sues are a product of bad writing.
How does this reflect on your question? It means that summary, if accurate, can be rephrased like this:
'this is a badly-written story--if you don't like badfics, don't read'
Now, it may be that the author in question is using a different definition of 'Mary-Sue'. Some people do that. Some people, I'm sorry to say, use it to mean 'female character I don't like' - or even, 'any original female character'. I disagree vehemently with those definitions, and I don't think many people (any?) in the PPC would use them. For us, 'Mary-Sue' has always been about writing quality. That's why we have charge lists.
So, the fact that the author says she's a Sue doesn't mean she fits the PPC definition. If she does fit the PPC definition of a Sue - if she is a 1-dimensional character who warps everything around her to make her story work, and doesn't manage to make it sound realistic by decent storytelling - then (if you can make it funny) she's mission-killable.
hS -
Addendum by
on 2013-05-14 13:37:00 UTC
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If the Sue dies in the actual fic itself, is there still need to Mission it?
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Answerves. by
on 2013-05-14 14:14:00 UTC
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To the first question, it would depend on how the "deliberate" Sue is written. If it's something intentionally satirical, like "A Trekkie's Tale" or the fic Lily just wrote an Intelligence Report for, then no (unless it were really badly executed, I suppose). These Sues are pretty much doing what we do: using Suvian characters to show why they tend to produce bad writing.
If it was something like a trollfic, a bad parody, or what the Wiki calls an anti-Sue, then these would typically be fair game for missions (unless they were particularly well-executed and legitimately funny).
To the second question, Jay and Acacia established that if a Sue dies as part of their own story, that event continues to affect the canon as part of the Sue's influence. As a result, such missions should generally have the Agents assassinate the Sue before their own planned death. -
As ever... by
on 2013-05-14 14:06:00 UTC
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... the rule is that if writing a mission about it is funny, it is doable. A deliberate Suefic is usually - though I suppose not always - a troll; they're technically in the remit of the Department of Bad Parody: Troll Division.
As to Sues who die during the story - remember, missions aren't just about killing a Mary-Sue. They're about witnessing the effect of a badfic on the canon and then making it right. That's why we have other departments, of course - but it's also why a dead Sue still needs sporking. Without a mission, her influence on the characters would never go away...
hS -
That bit about the trolls... by
on 2013-05-14 14:49:00 UTC
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I've never seen a troll handled in the Department of Bad Parody(but I'm hardly going to claim that I've read all of the spin-offs, so there could just be one I'm unaware of). I've seen some killed by the Department of Floaters and the Department of Mary Sues, though, and I imagine the Department of Technical Errors would be able to claim jurisdiction on some. When was there a Troll Division?
Actually, I don't recall seeing very many Department of Bad Parody missions at all, and the ones I did see just had the Agents temporarily picking up a DBP mission rather than one for their usual Department. Was there a spin-off at some point that just never caught on, like what happened to Despatch? -
Je te presente... by
on 2013-05-14 14:54:00 UTC
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... PPC: Troll Division, featuring Agents Marokee, Leelee and Saphie. I don't believe they ever went on a mission, but they are the people who actually have jurisdiction over trollfics.
And yes, to those who are wondering, that was actually written by Meir Brin and the Saphie.
hS -
Saphie's manual mentions a Kelp as a Head of Department. by
on 2013-05-14 15:26:00 UTC
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Where was he/she from? Judging by the way it was phrased, and by a few implications earlier in the chapter, it isn't their Head of Division, but what is it? Was that the head of one of the Departments that was shut down? RPF, maybe? That one seems important enough to be mentioned in the manual, but isn't around any more. That's only a guess, though.