Subject: Ten seconds too late, after I have not proofread enough...
Author:
Posted on: 2010-12-01 00:59:00 UTC
That was probably not the acceptable thing to say here.
*out come the flameproof vests and helmets*
Didn't mean to offend anyone, for the record.
I thought this community might be interested in the following news as many here feel strongly about LGBT-rights.
A transsexual man requested from the university where he had graduated (the University of Amsterdam) a new diploma. When he graduated he was still a woman, so the diploma has his former female first names on it. Now he is a man and he finds it awkward to show his female diploma to prospective employers, because his sex change is not something he wants to discuss at a job interview.
The university refused to issue a new diploma. On the grounds that it can't issue a duplicate in a different name. The university argued the law would have to be changed for that to be possible.
The man brought this case to the Committee on Equal Treatment (which can make non-legal binding recommendations. The Court generally follows the recommendation of the Committee if a party decides to sue.) Also, at the university a student group for LGBT-rights started a petition to encourage the board of the university to change its mind.
Today, the minister of Education said that the law allowed a duplicate diploma in a different name, and the university has said that man will receive a new diploma, with his male first names on it.
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How are things in your countries when it comes to transsexuals needing new diplomas and such things after their sex change?
I'm someone who whole-heartedly detests any and all forms of discrimination, so I think that it's only natural that this man is going to get a new diploma. It's his right, after all.
Now about the question you asked. Here in Belgium, when a person enters university and has a sex change during the course of their studies, they will initially receive a diploma with their old name on it. However, as soon as that person's new gender has been legally recognized (following a medical examination and such), a new diploma will be given to that person.
Incidentally, my society is extremely tolerant of LGBT people. We're one of the very few countries to permit civil marriage between same-sex couples, with all the same rights as heterosexual marriage. Just look at this map. Adoption by same-sex couples, too, is legal since 2006. Hate crimes and discrimination are practically unheard of here. Case in point. In 1997, a dockworker named Ronny Van Sandt, then aged forty-seven and married since 1974, underwent a sex change operation and took on the name Priscilla. Afterwards, she went right back to working at the docks, and none of her male colleagues had any problems with that. No harassment or anything. I might add that Priscilla's wife Jeannine, while at first a bit doubtful about the whole arrangement, still supported her throughout the whole thing, and that the couple did not stop having sex after the operation.
I know this is a lot more information than you asked for, but it gives me a little glow of pride to be able to say it.
And I understand your pride. I'm kind of proud that the Netherlands was the first country to allow same sex marriages. Even though I had no more part in that, than that I voted for one of the parties that formed the government that changed the law on civil marriage.
Hate crimes are a growing problem, though. More incidents have been reported in the past few years than at the beginning of the decade.
I don't know if someone would be able to do this in Canada, but I hope so. We're pretty left wing about most things- compared to the U.S. anyway. I don't know how we'd measure up to the Netherlands.
Canada doesn't come up much in Dutch media.
The Netherlands is currently experiencing a turn to the right, and debate that the terms left and right wing don't quite fit anymore as some left wing parties are progressive while others are conservative, and the same for right wing parties.
I salute you sir.
Good for him, and right on board with the faith in humanity.
As to how such things are handled-- in America, I think it depends very much on the region, because Federal law is a good fifty years behind the rest of humanity. In California, for example, a school would probably not mind issuing another diploma-- New England it would vary wildly from town to town, depending on who was on the school board/university board/what have you. It might be prejudiced of me, but I wouldn't expect much from the majority of the Deep South and midwest.
The thing about this country is, it moves less like a single entity and more like a spooked herd of mustangs-- a few false starts, some charging off in the wrong direction, and nobody runs exactly the same way, but eventually we get all fifty states on the same path, mostly.
That is a pretty good way to describe how this country operates.
That aside, I don't have experience changing names at a college, but I do with various other government institutions, and I have never had a problem with any of them being willing to change a name to what it currently reads on the Birth Certificate and Social Security Card.
And almost completely off-topic, but December 16th, we have a court date for my husband to adopt my big boys. We've been meaning to do it forever, but finally went ahead and got the paperwork finished. No more "No, you have to sign X last name, because Y last name isn't legal." or "Oh, so that's your STEP-father?" We're all excited, especially the boys.
Because I am totally left-wing. As for my country, I know California's still working out its Prop 8 issue, but I'm not sure about America's stance on transsexuals or the LGBT community as a whole. I'm glad that things like this are happening, though; at the very least, it's proof that the world is moving forward.
I spend a lot of time worrying about these issues, though. I'm lucky enough to live in a very diverse area, so most of the people in my community are very open and accepting about race and orientation and such. Still, though, I hear about violence and hate crimes happening every now and then, and it scares me. Like I said, I live in a very diverse area, so a lot of my friends are gay or bisexual. It really hits close to home.
I may not be big on gay marriage and all, but it's pretty obvious that if a person changed their name in the duration, that's the one you print.
and point out that transgender issues don't really have a lot to do with gay issues. If anything, gay issues have massively overshadowed trans issues, to the point that trans issues have been badly neglected. Overt transphobia is much more socially acceptable than homophobia, transgender people have horrifically bad prospects for employment, and are victims of violence on a daily, nay, hourly basis.
A gay person's sexuality is a political target, but for a transgender person it's their very being. Things like the first post are just the first steps. The Netherlands have usually been progressive on LGBT issues so I was shocked to find out this was an issue in the first place - highlighting the uphill struggle transpeople face.
That was probably not the acceptable thing to say here.
*out come the flameproof vests and helmets*
Didn't mean to offend anyone, for the record.
I don't know how it is in America--maybe others do--but I would hope that since a legal name-change is something that is done, it would make sense to change it on all important documents, including a diploma. I wouldn't expect it to be an issue legally, but then, I'm a bit of an idealist. What makes sense to me isn't always the way things work. I'll be interested to find out if anyone else knows.
~Neshomeh
I would think there IS no issue aside from the actual technicalities of a name change, and if they're going to be fussy about that... well, that's just stupid. I don't know anything about the issue in either the country I live in or any other, but I'll gladly call myself an idealist too ;)