Subject: I have
Author:
Posted on: 2013-05-09 16:15:00 UTC
I really enjoyed the Artemis Fowl series. But that was quite a bit ago, so I might have to do some catch-up reading
Subject: I have
Author:
Posted on: 2013-05-09 16:15:00 UTC
I really enjoyed the Artemis Fowl series. But that was quite a bit ago, so I might have to do some catch-up reading
I started watching an anime called Kotoura-san the other day. The main character, Kotoura, is a girl who can read minds. However, instead of making her Speshul and having her be loved for her talents, it shows a more realistic version and it's consequences. Kotoura ends up revealing the secrets of the people around her, causing her friends to hate her and her parents to get divorced. She ends up being labelled a monster for reading thoughts without permission, even though she can't block out the thoughts.
Anyway, this got me thinking... how many fandoms are there where a typically Sue-ish power, like mind reading or seeing the future, is shown in a more realistic manner, with all of the consequences as well as the benefits? I've been needing more fandoms, haha.
... that the general consensus is that social weakness (such as being an outcast or whatnot) counters having potentially Speshul powers?
If so, this bodes well for some of my OCs hopefully not being Mary Sues...
On the other hand:
Well, either social weakness, or having problems actually using the powers in the intended way.
At least, I hope that being generally bad at using the all powerful magic would make said powerful magic un-speshul enough. Ahaha...
Just two? Yes - otherwise I'd be here forever.
1/ The Dark is Rising sequence by Susan Cooper. I know it's already been mentioned, but these books are fantastically awesome. If you read them (read them!), it's often best to skip Over Sea, Under Stone on first readthrough, or maybe read it just before Greenwitch. It's a somewhat different book to the rest, and The Dark is Rising itself serves as a better intro to the series.
When the Dark comes rising, Six shall turn it back
Three from the Circle, Three from the track
Wood, bronze, iron, water, fire, stone
Five will return - and one go alone...
-- oh, and I do mean read the books. Do not watch the movie. It is a horrible travesty.
2/ Heroes. Seriously, has no-one mentioned this yet? Back in 2006 this show was the show if you were on the internet. It's basically exactly what you said - superpowered people in the real world.
(On this topic - Series 1 is universally regarded as awesome. After that, Your Mileage May Vary)
... all right, three.
3/ The Night Watch series by Sergei Lukyanenko. Russian urban fantasy. If the translations are available where you are - I think there's a couple of versions, although obviously the ones I've read are the best - they're worth tracking down. A bit dark in places, but amazing. Currently there's four books.
Oh, and two films. Can you guess what I'm about to say?
Apparently the (Russian) producers looked at the books, said, "They've got vampires in? That makes them HORROR!" and filmed it on that basis. That's... not what the books are. They're fantasy. So don't watch the films.
hS
I'll see if I can find a copy of that Russian one, it sounds pretty cool. Russiansss //shot
Everything she writes is so very amazing.
I would say Artemis Fowl, (has anyone read this), Artemis is a genius and has access to a huge amount of technology (almost Stuish in its awesomeness) he frequently feels the results of being a criminal mastermind, mostly in alienation from his friends and, well, not really having many (human) friends.
Skulduggery Pleasant (Great series, anyone read it?) I would hesitate to mention, as its heroine shows quite a few blatant Sue traits (beauty being commented on by evil villains, bad-ass, kick ass, so on)but a better portrayal of human emotions than most thrillers make up for it. Mostly. And who can resist a skeleton in a suit?
I really enjoyed the Artemis Fowl series. But that was quite a bit ago, so I might have to do some catch-up reading
Amazing books. I started reading them years ago, and read each new one as it came out (I think I started when there were four out). My friend and I used to decode the Gnommish at the bottom of the pages, and I think we may have actually tried to learn to write in it? Not sure. But that's how amazing they are.
Actually, anything by Eoin Colfer is amazing. Have you seen the AF graphic novels, by any chance?
I haven't read Skulduggery Pleasant, although I have heard of it.
~DF
Has there been anything beyond the Atlantis Complex? Because that one was a bit... off. Hum. Maybe it's because Artemis is getting more and more... soft. Or something.
But I really liked the Time Paradox and, aw hell, everything. I just didn't like Minerva too much. Erp. Though it is a bit unfair for Mr Colfer to drop her instead of revising her into someone more likeable, ya know?
I just can't remember the title. I do remember reading it, though, and I definitely enjoyed it.
~DF
And I thought I was the only one who knew Gnommish...ah,well. I have seen the graphic novel, but I didn't really care for it- the drawings weren't really my style.
YES, everything by Eoin is awesome. And amazing. And sparkly! Have you read the Supernaturalists (did I spell that right?) by any chance?
That was such a good book. You didn't even see the plot twist coming! Although the space bit was a little... something or other. Too much, maybe. My words have gone.
Artemis Fowl is a good series, definitely. And, I think I read one of the books for Skulduggery Pleasant, but because my school library is mad, they only had the one, and it wasn't even the first. I'll probably try finding the rest of the books and reading them eventually.
And yes. Skeletons in suits. //swoons
Buffy Summers. The Chosen One. One girl in all the world (er, at the start of the series, anyway) with the power to...slay evil things. So sue me, I don't remember the speech. But still.
Buffy, as the Slayer, is stronger and faster than other humans, and is responsible for saving people from vampires, demons, and other things that go bump in the night. Sound Sueish? Meet Joss Whedon. He's the one who wrote it. Sueish...doesn't really happen.
The show Buffy the Vampire Slayer deals with all sorts of--wow, did I actually forget to recommend every superhero show ever? Ok, I'll get there in a minute. BtVS deals with all sorts of plots and subplots about responsibility, growing up, magic, and being a hero. It's an amazing show, with ups and downs, and has an entire host of wonderful characters. I highly recommend it.
Also, in terms of superheroes: for the moment, I'm just going to recommend the Avengers movie and its prequels because, well, it has the potential to be filled with Stus and Sues. Unfortunately, I don't really feel like analyzing it right now, but...it's very good. And there's character development. And I don't think that, in all six or so movies (I think it's six? I'm estimating), I've ever felt like I was watching someone who wasn't human, who didn't have flaws and motivations, who wasn't a well-rounded character. Then again, they have decades of history to draw on, so I should hope they'd be well-rounded characters by now.
Another series (of movies and otherwise) to look at would be X-men. Seriously, it's about two groups of mutants who have different views towards regular humans. And all of them have superhuman powers. It's pretty much the definition of potential Sues and Stus. And yet, for the most part, it's handled quite well (I'm not an expert. I've seen maybe two or three movies in the fandom. On the other hand, I loved both of them). I think it's worth a look.
And with that, I shall leave you for now...
~DF
Well, there's the Dark is Rising Sequence by Susan Cooper, which has as a main character (well, sort of-- he's only introduced in the second book) a boy called Will who finds out on his eleventh birthday that he's the last of the Old Ones, immortal, time-travelling beings with various other powers, and that he must complete the Circle to help the Light drive back the Dark at its final Rising. (Oh, and it was written at least a decade before Harry Potter was conceived.) But anyways, obviously he has very much Stuish potential, but Susan Cooper handles it all so very marvelously... Her writing's as rich and delicious as high-quality dark chocolate, and it has a sort of etheral, otherworldly quality while still being completely believable. No one can write time-travel like her, and she's my second-favorite author ever after JRR Tolkien. But, well, I could go on forever about her and her books, so I shall shut up now.
Next, I wish to recommend The Books of Pellinor by Alison Croggon. They are rather heavily influenced by Ardaverse, perhaps more so than necessary, especially in the first book, but I still enjoyed them a lot. The main character, Maerad (Although... Well, no. Spoilers.) has a very large potential for Canon Sueness, but I think her ridiculous amount of power and Chosen One-ness was handled very well, down to most people being very afraid of her. And she makes mistakes. A lot of them. To the point of killing someone when they were just trying to stun her and she knew it, though she denied that afterwards. Another thing she does is lose three fingers to frostbite. How often do you see that happen to the hero?
Thirdly, The Enchanted Foest Chronicles by Patricia C Wrede. Like Chrestomanci mentioned below (and I'll vouch for that series, too), it's written for younger readers, but it's definiely worth the short amount of time it'll take to read. Just-- Morwen is awesome. Cimorene is awesome. Kazul is awesome. For that matter, every single female character is awesome. A lot of the male ones too, for that matter. Especially Telemain, Mendanbar and that snarky gargoyle. And wizards steal magic, but can be defeated by a hilarious, unconventional means that makes perfect sense in a completely backwards way. Not to mention the constant poking-of-fun-at-fairy-tales.
And finally, one of my friends recently got me into Neil Gaiman's The Sandman comics, which I finished the last of on Saturday. They're pretty much a new obsession for me, and I never read graphic novels. Period. And then I opened Preludes and Nocturnes... It focuses on Dream, one of the seven Endless, who, from eldest to youngest, are as follows: Destiny, Death, Dream, Destruction-who-quit, Desire, Despair, and Delirium-who-was-once-Delight. And Death is amazing.
...But now I'm going to sleep, so look it up yourself. 'Night!
-Aila
Wonderful books. I don't even know how many times I've reread them. They're amazing.
Also, Telemain is currently reminding me of the Agent. Or rather, the Agent is reminding me of Telemain. I'm not sure how accurate this is...Aha! I need to reread the books to find out!
Now how to get a hold of them, since I'm not in the same country as my usual library...
Patricia C. Wrede is always worth it.
~DF
I love that anime! It is so cute and funny and I want a Manabe.
Since Tamora Pierce has already been mentioned, I will have to recommend the Temeraire series. It's reminiscent of Eragon in that it's about a guy who's chosen as a rider captain by a newly-hatched dragon, and even the dragon itself ends up being a Super Speshul breed of dragon. On the other hand, it takes place during the Napoleonic wars and a lot of the conflict concerns the social and personal sacrifices that the main character is forced to make for the sake of his new role, along with racism, sexism, classism, the fetters of social expectations and standards, and the cruelty and amorality of war. Also the dragons are really big and are basically flying, sentient ships that require crews which I think is really awesome.
So, it's basically Eragon done really really well? Sounds like something I'd read, for definite.
The plot is actually nothing like Eragon, really. It can get quite political, and like I said there's a lot of the -isms. Racism, classism, sexism, though sexism is played with because there's one breed of dragon that only ever chooses female captains, so the Aerial Corps does train girls. Doesn't take away the sentiments, of course. And I love that there are consequences to becoming a dragon's captain; the main character Laurence doesn't want the role at first because it's basically social suicide, he has to give up his beloved position in the navy, he immediately loses his chance to marry his would-be fiance, and he's very nearly disowned by his family. It's okay though, since he finds his place and he loves his dragon, but... CONSEQUENCES. I love consequences.
... it turns out that Doing The Right Thing doesn't mean you don't get arrested and punished in true 18th-century style. Even if you are a main character.
Vague to avoid spoilers... I do enjoy the Temeraire books.
--OOH! Crucible of Gold came out last year and Blood of Tyrants is due this summer. I think I know what I'm buying myself next...
hS
Ah, well, that's a relief, sort of. I remember my stepfather put on the movie of Eragon once and I just sort of cried inside.
Dragons, though. Seriously, they're one of the coolest things ever, and I'm not just saying that because of y Ddraig Goch. Okay maybe I am. Patriotism, ho. I think, off the top of my head, the only things in my mind that can top dragons are top hats, Balrogs and Alan Rickman. But anyway, I'm off topic, aha.
I'm right there with you on the Eragon movie. You wouldn't think it would be possible to be worse than the books, but when the movie fails at storytelling in a way that does nothing to patch the problems from the book while simultaneously voiding the possibility of a sequel, everyone involved has failed. Except Jeremy Irons. I'm fairly certain by this point that he takes roles in terrible movies on purpose, so I can't really blame him for showing up in another one.
So, if those are the coolest things you can think of, what would happen if you saw Alan Rickman, wearing a top hat, riding a dragon?
This is sorta reminding me of how badly done the Percy Jackson film was. I mean, could you get any further from the book canon?
Gah, terrible films. *shakes fist angrily*
And, ooh dear, I'd probably faint from the perfection of it all. Dragon riding top hatted Rickman, ooh~ //swoons
I feel we are gettig off topic, aha...
I could probably die happily. I mean it's not like the universe could come up with anything better than that.
Except clockwork werewolves. Those would be cool.
Is it scary that I now have a sudden urge to write an entire novel focusing on the trials of a young clockwork werewolf? In some sort of steampunk Earth AU, set in a Victorian-type era? With vampires and werewolves and golems? Because that would be really incredible and I don't know why no one has written that yet.
Ah, well, another childhood dream crushed. Perhaps I shall go write that novel now. That would be fun.
On a similar tangent, I wonder what a good name for a steampunk clockwork werewolf would be.
That would be an amazing novel. You'd probably find an audience for it really easily, too--there are a lot of Steampunk novels around right now, and I have at least two friends who love them.
~DF
Would a clockwork werewolf be a normal man that turns into a clockwork creature at certain times, a clockwork creature that turns into a wolf at certain times, or a werewolf enhanced by clockwork components? I like the first and third, but the second is a little bit too silly unless the wolf it turns into is also made of clockwork.
And no, it isn't scary at all that you have new ideas! I've never seen anything involving both steampunk and vampires before(but then again, I don't look into a lot of steampunk), so if you write something about it, it could still be a fresh idea! I mean fresh as in not-stale, and not as in the 1990s slang term.
Great, now I'm imagining a werewolf doing Totally Radical bike stunts and I can't get the image to leave my head.
For one thing, it sounds very creepy if someone can read your mind. It means that they have full access to your privacy without having to sneak into your house. Secondly, reading minds might sound good, but some people have really twisted minds that would horrifying to see. You don't want a mind-reading ability if you don;t want to know what's in some people's heads. Third off, it would put a strain on any relationships you have with people because they would be afraid of you. They would not want you to know some of the things on their mind.
I believe that's the case with the young girl in this TV show?
And on a less serious note, she can see all of the dirty fantasies of the one guy who befriends her. The series has a habit of switching between depressing and funny at random.
Doctor Who and Torchwood both do a lot with the idea of being either immortal or very long-lived--and, in a way, perpetually young. In Doctor Who, the Doctor outlives most of the people he knows, and is often shown having to deal with that. He's also telepathic, and very smart, although those two aren't dealt with quite as much. (Here, when I say 'perpetually young', I mostly mean his most recent incarnations--the earlier ones tended to be somewhat older-looking). In one episode his youth is actually suspended, and the 900-year-old Doctor is revealed to be, well, really, really, really old, as opposed to his current (at that point) youthful David Tennant form. He's also a compelling character, have I mentioned that yet? No? Well, he is.
In Torchwood, Captain Jack Harkness can't die. Or rather, he can--he just can't stay dead. He was originally a regular human from the 51st century, but something happened to him in an episode of Doctor Who and he can't stay dead anymore. He also barely ages--after over a century, he mentions that he's getting the odd gray hair. He spends the entire 20th century on Earth, waiting for the Doctor. Over that time, he fights in wars, he loses everyone due to wars, sickness, and old age, and he...well, he's very lonely. Not all the time, but a lot of it. He falls in love several times, is even married once, and each experience is different. They're also spoilers, so I won't tell you (even though there's every chance you know both of these fandoms already...) One of them actually says to him, 'Ten thousand years from now, you won't even remember me.' He's also occasionally shown dealing with cultural differences, but by the time Torchwood is actually set in, he's gotten used to a lot of things. Then again, he was also pretty much trained to blend in in different time periods for his former job, so that may have something to do with it.
And there ends my analysis of two TV shows you may have already seen.
If you want good and generally realistic handling of magic, try Tamora Pierce's books. If you want an especially good example of the responsibilities and years of study that actually come with being a powerful mage, try the Circle of Magic series (and its sequels) by the same author. Diana Wynne Jones' Chrestomanci series also does a good job of showing the responsibilities and dangers of magic, although they are technically aimed at slightly younger readers. If you don't mind that, though, I recommend them very, very highly. Other than that, there's something that's slipping my mind right now; if I remember it, I'll let you know.
(As to why I've included these: the Chrestomanci is a position held by a nine-lived enchanter. They're very rare, and very powerful. The series deals mostly with young nine-lived enchanters--in two different generations--being taught, well, responsibility, mostly. Tamora Pierce also has a tendency to write about unique magic users: Alanna is actually the chosen one of a goddess--which, believe me, is explored in depth--Daine is the strongest Wild Mage in...centuries, I think, and Kel--well, Kel doesn't actually have magic. She is the first openly female knight-contender in over a century, though. In the Circle books, Briar, Sandry, Tris, and Daja are extremely powerful at a young age, and use a type of magic that's often ignored or not even known about. The books focus a lot on the benefits, disadvantages, and responsibilities that come with their magic. ...this is all a lot more interesting than it sounds. Basically, Tamora Pierce is an amazing author, and she handles Sue-ish ideas so well I don't think I've ever even thought of accusing her characters of being Sues. In fact, the only character I've heard the fandom accuse of being slightly Sueish was Daine, and, well...I don't know. I like her. And the people who said she was Sueish meant it more in the way of 'Sue-like tendencies'. Not to mention that her world is still detailed and well-written. It's a matter of opinion, I suppose.)
Does that help? Or rather, is any of that what you were looking for, preferably in addition to being something you haven't read or watched already?
~DF
Tamora Pierce is wonderful. I think her books may have been the first fantasy series I ever read, though I don't remember too well anymore, with the amount of books I get through. I never saw any of her characters as a Sue, though I might have considered them that way if their Sueish tendencies hadn't been so thoroughly explained and developed.
Has anyone read anything else by Diana Wynne Jones? I adored the Chrestomanci books, but she has a collection of short stories called Believing is Seeing (something like that) that are just beautiful. "The Master" is especially good.
She really is. And I agree with everything you said about her.
I have! I don't think I've read that collection of short stories, but I've read most of the rest of her books. I loved Howl's Moving Castle and its sequels, as well as some other books that I can't remember the titles of right now...ooh, the Power of Three. That one was amazing. It may even have been the first of her books that I read. I think Howl, the Power of Three, and the Chrestomanci series are my favorites, though. She was an absolutely amazing author, and I do think her books are accessible to pretty much all ages, if older audiences don't mind a slightly simpler writing style in places. They're just...the plots are lovely, the worlds are described in enough detail to make you see them without trouble, and the characters are ridiculously lively and alive. I love them.
And I would totally go check out that collection of short stories if I was anywhere near my library alsdkhgadh;
~DF
Yeah, that's more or less exactly what I wanted!
I have seen Doctor Who, yeah, but I didn't think about it at first. There are surprisingly large amounts of these kinds of things hanging around. Maybe I should be more adventurous with finding more fandoms.
Anyway, those books sound pretty good! I'll have to read them, when I don't have exams, that is. I timed this badly. I should've waited 'til after exams... but I'd probably have forgotten to post this by then.
Or, if it helps: Himochi, I hereby forbid you to check out any of these new fandoms until after you've finished your exams. If you break this solemn covenant, you will be doomed to... *gasp!* Give up all your cookies!
...ok, I may have failed at the seriousness there.
Well, if you want fandom recommendations, I'm glad to advise. I'm in far too many. Actually, here's one more.
Once Upon a Time sort of falls into the 'deals well with a Sue trope' idea because the main character, Emma Swan, literally has to save a town full of fairy-tale characters from, well, not remembering who they are. She is the only one who can do this--and she doesn't even believe it. (She's also the daughter of Snow White and Prince Charming. She doesn't believe that, either.) The thing is, she's grown up entirely in our world. She doesn't believe in any of this. And yet, she gets involved in this town, mainly because the son she gave up years ago is there, and she wants to look out for him. He's the main proponent of the fairy-tale world; she repeatedly applies Real World logic to everything he tells her is true. It's a serious show, possibly aimed at a slightly younger audience (no idea why, considering the topic) and it does sort of deal with a Sue trope? I mean, a Sue in Emma's position would probably either be inconsistent in her denials, or accept the fairy-tale world without any logical proof. And then she'd save the world, and sparkle while she did it.
Also, if you just plain want a good series, I'd recommend Gerald Morris' Squire's Tales series. Er, if you have even the slightest interest in the King Arthur stories, that is. Which reminds me: Merlin is also a great TV show, and I'm really doing an excellent job of showcasing the too-many fandoms I'm in, aren't I? Anyway, the Squire's Tales series is hilarious, magical, and full of feels, as they say on Tumblr. And that's where I leave you for now, even though I could also recommend Lloyd Alexander's Chronicles of Prydain series, and, in fact, pretty much all of his writing...
Yup. Time to stop writing.
Enjoy?
Also, good luck with your exams! :) Sorry for giving you potential distractions...maybe the sheer number of them will deter you from actually checking them out until later?
~DF
She can time-stop for extended amounts of time (allowing her to steal military hardware like candies), and can reset to a specific point in time every time she fails.
This doesn't help her much, though. She keeps failing the friend she gained her powers to in the first place, also because her final enemy is a behemoth that soaks up ridicolous amounts of damage.
Oh, and every time she resets time she founds relating to the other people harder, as she gradually learns more and more about them and so she watches them fall to their weaknesses without being able to save them even trying.
Turns out, giving timestop and tons of guns and explosives to the show's resident Shrinking Violet wasn't a great idea.
Still, her particularity isn't weakness. In fact, Homura becomes quite of a badass. The interesting point is that she has to take on a fight she can't win alone anyway, even with severe abuse of her power... and usage of the power in the first place caused her to distance herself from other people.
I was sure I had written that, honest!
In True Blood (tv-series, I haven't gotten around to reading the books) the main character can read minds and unless she focuses very hard, she can't block out other people's thoughts and it's very stressful for her. I'm pretty sure that it's not that unusual for mind reading to come with the disdvantage of being unable to turn it off, but True Blood is the only canon that springs to my mind.
As for seeing the future it sometimes comes with the 'Cassandra-curse' in that they can't get other people to believe their visions and/or are unable to change the future. Again, I'm sure it's not that uncommon, but the only example I can think of is Cloud of Sparrows by Takashi Matsuoka.