Subject: Oh, this one is more specific than mine.
Author:
Posted on: 2013-05-07 03:26:00 UTC
I should probably reread TOS soon. It set all of the PPC traits out so well, and was great reading to boot.
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The Saga of Sue-Song by
on 2013-05-06 23:13:00 UTC
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A certain posting on this Board prompted this question from me. I've noticed that PPCers in general tend to have a knee-jerk adverse reaction to singing Sues. Could anyone please help me understand what the problem is?
Lest I be understood, I am not talking about badfics where the Suethor uses music (songfics) or sings music (other badfics) that does not belong with the canon. I am talking about the phenomenon where PPC agents resort to covering their ears/using Glopsnerch earmuffs at the mere prospect of a Sue about to sing. -
In addition to what's been mentioned by
on 2013-05-07 03:10:00 UTC
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I think it might have something to do with the fact that occasionally one's singing ability is considered a replacement for a character trait - basically instead of describing personality or whatever you get 'good singer!'. So singing ability with other character traits is well and good, but the annoyingness crops up when it's their only character trait.
It might also have something to do with descriptions. If someone has a voice like bells or a flute or whatever, it's not fun to hear that noise distorted into English words. -
I'm going to agree with hermione of vulcan here. by
on 2013-05-07 01:38:00 UTC
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In that it's a combination between overall speshulness and Aura of Smooth.
The Aura of Smooth effect would probably manifest in the slavish devotion that canon characters suddenly manifest in the Sue after hearing her sing, which ties into the "singing is speshul" option very effectively.
In some cases, the psychic Sue-song can even cause possession in the canons, and I've found one badfic where a character was completely replaced after hearing it. or, if they aren't posessed, the singing tends to be chgaracterized by urple prose or Suvian traits in canons. Seeing someone shed a Single Tear at hearing the beautiful voice of Mary Sue is something that I have seen so many times, and it gets really annoying.
Some Sues tend to attach in-story powers to their singing as well for even more speshulness, usually "graceful" side effects like "curing evil" or "causing people to fall in love". The problem is, that's a mind-altering psychic power that most Agents need Glopsnerch or some sort of anti-psionics training to fend off properly. Sues and psionics are a bad combination, since Sues have little intelligence but a willpower strong enough to dominate an entire world. -
Hmmm.... by
on 2013-05-07 02:59:00 UTC
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I am not as masochistic as most; I am not at the level yet where I actually look for badfic. So I need to ask: where have you seen Sue-song exhibit these . . . interesting traits?
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Well, terms like "possession" and "replaced" aren't in-fic. by
on 2013-05-07 03:40:00 UTC
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They're PPC terms, not badfic terms, but if you read enough badfic, you tend to start picking it out. Once a character starts acting especially OOC after a certain point, it's safe to assume that, from the standpoint of the Protectors, a wraith or replacement just got involved. Within the fic itself, the badfic writer often doesn't know or care how OOC everyone is, so they don't talk about it.
If you were asking specifically about the "singing made them more speshul and made the canons love them", well, it's basically up there with "when their eyes first met, love happened" and "she was the most beautiful person he had ever seen" in the list of top Mary Sue clichés. The closest thing to an actual form of said list I've found is a TVTropes page, but it's quite comprehensive. -
I, too, wondered this. by
on 2013-05-07 01:17:00 UTC
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It made me a little uncomfortable, because I take pride in my singing voice (I'm not great, but I can carry a tune without hurting people's ears) and don't like to see anyone mocked for being a good singer.
However, after giving it some thought, I've come to a few conclusions.
1. Sue-singing invariably sounds bad to anyone not affected by Aura of Smooth, a.k.a PPC agents. It's only said Aura of Smooth that makes the canons think it's pretty.
2. The Sue almost always uses it as some speshul trait, flaunting it and being complimented and fawned over by the canon characters for it.
I think that should be specified in missions, especially the first point. Otherwise, it comes across as "good singing = Suvian and annoying", which is not true. -
It's because they're invariably good at it. by
on 2013-05-07 00:05:00 UTC
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Or at least their Aura makes people think she's good at it. To some agents she just sounds like an awful banshee.
Also she often sings songs inappropriate to the setting - one of the TOS Sues sang Nickelback and Alien Ant Farm songs in Moddle-earth, if I recall. -
The first sentence clears things up a bit... by
on 2013-05-07 02:51:00 UTC
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but I did say that I already know of the Suvian phenomenon of importing out-of-universe music into their fics.
At this juncture, I am willing to agree with hermione of vulcan and Outhra; Sues must be bad at singing but for the Aura of Smooth. But being a lawyer IRL, I need proof. Are there any missions out there where Sue-song is displayed as the banshee screech that (according to the now-popular theory) it really is? -
Re: The first sentence clears things up a bit... by
on 2013-05-07 03:23:00 UTC
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Well, I found a few instances of a Sue-wraith forcing a canon character to sing songs that they wouldn't in a voice that doesn't suit them because it belongs to a wraith, but that's not really what I was looking for.
It was short notice, but I've got one mission in which the Sue-song is described as "unpleasant and jarring", but it manages to enthrall a canon character beyond his previous Suefluenced state:
https://sites.google.com/site/ppcasterloreone/
and one where an ex-God Mode Sue accidentally enthralls a large collection of unprotected agents using mind-altering Sue-song, showing that Sues are capable of producing the effects even when self-aware and that the effect isn't just restrained to canon characters.
http://the-ppc.livejournal.com/49098.html
I might be able to find more if I had more specific search terms with which to locate them, but these are still examples nonetheless.
As for the "you would probably need anti-psionic training to combat it", I admit that's speculation on my part, since the PPC doesn't have a lot of psionic agents for some reason and thus it would be hard to test. I've seen Sue-song referred to as "telepathically enhanced" before, and built my statement off that combined with the fact that a psionically trained mind would be much less susceptible to external influence than an untrained one just as a matter of principle. -
"you would probably need anti-psionic training to combat it" by
on 2013-05-07 09:00:00 UTC
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Welll...hello, little plotbunny.
Yeah. Time Lady agent=telepathy=I'm going to try to find a singing Sue at some point.
Thanks, I think...
~DF -
Why, in the first TOS fic, actually, by
on 2013-05-07 03:17:00 UTC
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we have this bit of Sue song:
"As night finally fell, Laurel and her happy little band walked out onto the dais. Laurel was escorted by a blushing Frodo, obviously bespelled. Legolas met her eyes from across the room, looking painfully lovestruck. Laurel and the two men took their places together, and began to sing, a modern song (Led Zeppelin, if Jay had any guess.)
It......wasn't that good. Led Zeppelin just wasn't meant for the harp." -
Oh, and the important bit: by
on 2013-05-07 03:18:00 UTC
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"Acacia made a face at the sound of the music. It wasn't even as if she had anything to drown it out- she had finally been forced to turn off the sound on her Analysis Device, or risk being deafened by its by-now-constant shrills.
As the music ended, all of the canon characters beamed at the band. Jay winced as Strider and Gandalf cheered.....even Elrond and Arwen were smiling interestedly , although Elrond's smile looked a bit forced." -
Oh, this one is more specific than mine. by
on 2013-05-07 03:26:00 UTC
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I should probably reread TOS soon. It set all of the PPC traits out so well, and was great reading to boot.
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(picks up the mini-Balrog Moddle-earth) by
on 2013-05-07 01:24:00 UTC
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Do you want this? I'm not too keen on keeping a tiny avatar of fire in a room with any flammable objects.
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The early bird gets the worm, I see... by
on 2013-05-07 02:45:00 UTC
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I was about to note that mini-Balrog!
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Do you want it? by
on 2013-05-07 02:51:00 UTC
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I'm sure Lily Winterwood wouldn't mind letting you have him. She's already managing the mini-Hound of the Baskervilles Adoption Center, and knowing mini-Hounds, the presence of a tiny fire demon in their midst would probably lead to the smell of burning dog hair before too long, if you catch my drift.
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No thanks. by
on 2013-05-07 03:01:00 UTC
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Lily can keep it. But it seems that you are still faced with the task of figuring out how to make it official.
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Make what official? (nm) by
on 2013-05-07 03:24:00 UTC
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Did you forget your own question? by
on 2013-05-07 04:20:00 UTC
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A few posts down: "This reminds me: do you know how mini-Balrog adoption is handled these days?"
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Oh. I was a bit confused. by
on 2013-05-07 05:02:00 UTC
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I had been intending on adopting a different mini-Balrog for one of the Agents I was going to write.
That's a bit of a different process from Boarders adopting other Boarders' typos. The whole mini-Balrog adoption process is a bit convoluted, but just finding typos is relatively simple. -
Frakkin' Nexus. by
on 2013-05-07 02:02:00 UTC
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This thing makes minis left and right, I swear. Anyway, yes, toss it to me; I'll feed it bacon.
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(tosses mini-Balrog) by
on 2013-05-07 02:19:00 UTC
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This reminds me: do you know how mini-Balrog adoption is handled these days? The wiki links to a Livejournal page from 2011, and since it didn't list the minis from your new missions, I'm guessing it's no longer in service. Even if it was, I don't have a Livejournal account to request an adoption.
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Actually... by
on 2013-05-07 08:56:00 UTC
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Assuming we're talking about the same lj page, it actually is still in use. I adopted six mini-Balrogs from there. Cassie keeps an eye on it, I think.
On the other hand, we may not be talking about the same page. Try looking in the comments--if you can find something from 2013 with my name on it, then we are.
Other than that, I think you can comment without an account. Try it?
~DF