Try to read better.

Subject: Try to read better.
Author: JulyFlame
Posted on: 2010-07-23 05:30:00 UTC

In the comments of the link, someone pointed out that that description was equally true of Toph. I was pointing that out to go 'oh, look, this character that can be described this way also is NOT a Sue'.

Saying that a character that hasn't even been properly introduced yet seems like a Canon!Sue is disingenuous, especially when it's by the creators and writers of the original Avatar series- I'd hardly call their characterization of any of the A:TLA characters that clear cut or prone to making Canon!Sues.

Think before you throw accusations like that around. Because calling female characters- canon characters- Canon!Sues before you even know what the character is like is inherently misogynist, unfair, and wankish.

[/minirant]

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Any Avatar Fans? by OpinionedAngel on 2010-07-22 16:07:00 UTC Reply

...And by that I mean the cartoon and not the movie (damn thing makes it hard to tell them apart now).

Apparently, there's going to be a sequel, set 70 years after "The Last Airbender" in which the next Avatar, a teenaged Water Tribe girl named Korra comes to the steampunk Republic City to learn Airbending from the son of the previous Avatar, after already learning Waterbending, Firebending and Earthbending. She's also apparently "hot-headed, independent, passionate, rebellious, fearless, and ready to take on the world".

...Yeah, am I the only one who has a bad feeling about this? Or am I just being paranoid/cynical? What are your thoughts on the subject?

Source: http://www.toplessrobot.com/2010/07/lookslikeaang.php

I have thoughts! by hushpiper on 2010-07-26 22:33:00 UTC Reply

A:tLA fan here! I apply the same mindset to this as I do to my fanning (hurray for coining new meanings for existing words?) of Supernatural: I trust the creators. They did well the first time, they have always done remarkably well. I trust their ability to make this cool. Therefore, it deserves every bit of benefit of the doubt I can give it.

Actually, I'm pretty happy to hear that they're doing a sequel, and that they're doing something entirely new with it! I'd be far more worried if they were trying to follow around the children of the first gang. I can't think of any good example of that. Can you guys?
Why the new Avatar may be worth watching by PoorCynic on 2010-07-25 17:13:00 UTC Reply

At first glance, I admit I was a little concerned with how this new series was described. "Hot-headed and independent" are hardly original descriptions for a main female character. *gestures towards his own PPC character list*

After some thought, however, I'm convinced that the new Avatar series should be something to be gleefully anticipated. My reasons are thus:

-- New characters. The story of the Gaang has pretty much been told. While it might be a little interesting to see how their lives progressed, an entirely new cast of characters allows for new situations or stories to be told.

-- Korra, the new Avatar. Her personality, while hardly original (if the press release is to be believed 100%), serves a marked contrast to Aang's typical cheerful mood. Plus, now we have a contemporary Avatar, rather than one that is disconnected by the present by 100 years. If the picture is anything to go by, Korra is older than Aang was during the first show. I'd quite like to see a more mature Avatar (not for that reason! Get your minds out of the gutter!).

-- The suggested storylines about city crime and anti-bending attitudes fit in with the general maturity set by the first series. I want to see how said topics are handled.

-- She already knows three of the four types of bending. Good! That means we don't have to watch more gorram training montages with fire, earth, and water. The first series had plenty of those, thank you!

-- Michael DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko (the original creators of the first series) are heading up this project. Rather them than some fan trying to redo all of the classic bits. They know what's been done, so hopefully they'll try to explore new territory and create new conflicts.

-- Steam punk is kinda cool.

I'll be looking forward to its release.
Re: Any Avatar Fans? by Tiroth on 2010-07-24 15:46:00 UTC Reply

Only seventy years, and Aang is already dead? :/ We've already had several people living for over a hundred years with no problems, so why did Aang kick the bucket so early? Did someone murder him or something? And if so, how did they manage to bump off the Avatar?
Living up to my name, I exploded with Squee. by Wide Eyed Idealist on 2010-07-23 15:38:00 UTC Reply

Really, this makes me SO DAMN HAPPY. I have plenty of faith in the creators to pull a kickass, strong, non-Sueish, new and above all, INTERESTING character off, and a whole bunch of supporting characters. The old series had lots of dark stuff in it, so the whole rising-crime thing doesn't make me twitch, and I just love the idea of seeing what's happened to the world after the series ends. And there will be more Avatar squee-squee-squee-squee-squee!

...Please tell me I'm not the only one on a total fangirl high? Please?
Thanks for the Feedback... by OpinionedAngel on 2010-07-22 21:09:00 UTC Reply

...I really wanted to know what everyone thinks about this, especially since sequels are (usually) not as good as the original, especially one as well-crafted as Avatar: The Last Airbender was.

And there's also the matter of the next Avatar herself. Ever since I found out that characters I liked/tolerated are generally considered (by fans) to be... uh... unlikable, I've been somewhat paranoid about new series. (And as much as I like TVTropes, it hasn't exactly helped in some ways either...)

But hey, maybe I'm wrong. I'll just have to wait and see.

TV Tropes ruined your life, too? by Aster Corbett on 2010-07-22 21:27:00 UTC Reply

Well, it didn't ruin my life. It just gave be a more technical outlook on the aspects of fiction...

One nice thing about Avatar: The Last Airbender is that it mixed, matched, and blurred tropes rather well. It was entertaining because the characters felt new and fresh, no matter how many bits of them happened to be actually pretty token. Tropes Are Not Bad.

But if the new series does not follow up this standard of quality, I admit I will be pretty sad.

re:TV Tropes ruined your life, too? by OpinionedAngel on 2010-07-22 23:02:00 UTC Reply

"Well, it didn't ruin my life. It just gave be a more technical outlook on the aspects of fiction..."

That sums it up pretty well. I like TV Tropes, but it hasn't helped my sanity any...

Avatar: The Last Airbender was a great series, and I doubt the sequel can live up to it... but I guess I'll have to watch it first before I can decide...

Interesting. by Aster Corbett on 2010-07-22 19:42:00 UTC Reply

I'm forcing myself to rein in my cynicism. I don't know how they can follow such a great act. Will the characters be as good? Will the story be as rich? I honestly don't know.

As long as this does not become TeenageWasteland!Avatar, I am willing to entertain the general concept. What this depends on is execution...

Which means I'll extend my feeble patience to it, I guess. I am getting weird mixed feelings from this, but I find myself demanding proof of them and from a cursory glance I can't justify my leeriness.

So I guess I'll just make some tea and--

70 years, huh? I guess Iroh is dead.

Well, that just sucked the happiness out of this series prospect. No Iroh? No Sokka? Boo. It's going to suck.
*raises hand* by Lycaenion on 2010-07-22 19:07:00 UTC Reply

I've just recently discovered the full extent of my obsession with the show.

While I agree that those are typical Canon!Sue characteristics, the first show also handled what could be considered other Sue-cliches (i.e. dead/missing parents, spirited kids doing cool things with special powers) very well indeed. Even Zuko's angsting isn't too bad at the worst of times.

I have become a little paranoid as well, with all the badfic I've seen in other fandoms, but this is one continuum I'm more than prepared to give the benefit of the doubt until I can decide for myself.

And if fearless, independent, passionate Miss Korra does turn out to be a Sue, well, I'll just watch the first series over again. And possibly again.
I'm not an Avatar fan, but... by raffitz on 2010-07-22 16:34:00 UTC Reply

... that girl has Canon!Sue written all over her face...

So you aren't even going to give it a chance? by JulyFlame on 2010-07-22 18:57:00 UTC Reply

As someone in the comments of that link pointed out, that same description matches Toph as well. And, y'know, I wouldn't exactly call Toph a Canon!Sue.

They haven't even properly announced it or shown prelim stuff- don't form your opinions so early or decide to call any character a "Canon!Sue" before you even actually know what they're supposed to be like.

I didn't say any of that... by raffitz on 2010-07-22 21:50:00 UTC Reply

I said she seemed a Canon!Say. I did not, however, say that Toph was a Canon!Sue or that I wasn't going to give it a chance. I just said the first thing that came to my mind about that description.

Try to read better. by JulyFlame on 2010-07-23 05:30:00 UTC Reply

In the comments of the link, someone pointed out that that description was equally true of Toph. I was pointing that out to go 'oh, look, this character that can be described this way also is NOT a Sue'.

Saying that a character that hasn't even been properly introduced yet seems like a Canon!Sue is disingenuous, especially when it's by the creators and writers of the original Avatar series- I'd hardly call their characterization of any of the A:TLA characters that clear cut or prone to making Canon!Sues.

Think before you throw accusations like that around. Because calling female characters- canon characters- Canon!Sues before you even know what the character is like is inherently misogynist, unfair, and wankish.

[/minirant]

Re: Try to read better. by raffitz on 2010-07-23 12:18:00 UTC Reply

First of all, I don't want to begin a war with you (Unless it's necessary! Wraaah! No, no, just kidding).
Second, and as I said in my previous reply ("Try to read better" back to you), Canon!Sue was just the first thing that came to my mind when I read her description, and IT WAS NOT BECAUSE SHE'S A GIRL! It was because she is described as knowing waterbending, firebending and earthbending, and learning airbending (überpowers, anyone?) and because she is (and I quote) "hot-headed, independent, passionate, rebellious, fearless, and ready to take on the world".
It was a first impression! She seemed like a canon!Sue because of the description, maybe she is, maybe she isn't. Maybe saying "Written all over her face" wasn't the best way to manifest my actual thoughts - point taken.
If you were really so hurt by my first impression, I apologize.
And if it means that much to you, I take my words back: I don't know if she is a canon!Sue or not for I haven't seen enough of her yet.

Uh, she's kind of the Avatar. by Wide Eyed Idealist on 2010-07-23 15:35:00 UTC Reply

DUH, she's going to be learning all four of the Bending types; it's kind of a given for being the Avatar, you know. And all of the listed characteristics are a) things that can lead to trouble, and b) things that plenty of real people DO embody.

But, really, she's the next Avatar and you expected her not to learn all four bending types, just like Aang and hundreds of Avatars before her? Uh... d'you call Aang a Canon Stu, too?
Butting in here... by Ansela on 2010-07-23 15:12:00 UTC Reply

And correct me if I'm wrong, but she's the Avatar! She needs to know all four forms of Bending, yeah? So in what way does that fall under 'uberpowers'?

Already took back what I said, sorry (nm) (nm) by raffitz on 2010-07-23 18:50:00 UTC Reply
*sticks toe in vat of flaming petroleum* by Aster Corbett on 2010-07-23 16:44:00 UTC Reply

I think it might seem a liiiiitle canon!Sueish because in the last series we followed the Avatar around as he learned all his skills. This one has already done a lot of her studying... if they are not careful, her mastery could seem forced-- even if she is the Avatar. She's still young. Even Aang, although an airbending prodigy, wasn't extremely good at the other bending forms until the very end-- just competent. It all depends on the execution of her power.

She's expected to be awesome, sure. But the reason why Aang got off the hook for being Canon!Stu (he wasn't one, really) was because he was BELIEVABLY awesome.

They're going to have to make her a believable character before all else, if they're going to make her so strong right off the bat. We got to see Aang learn and screw up sometimes. We won't see all of those shenanigans with this new Avatar-- at least not for earth, fire, and water bending...

She also looks a fair bit older than Aang, though. (nm) by Wide Eyed Idealist on 2010-07-23 21:48:00 UTC Reply

And pretend this is at the top branch of this thread. (nm) by JulyFlame on 2010-07-22 21:07:00 UTC Reply