Subject: Just to clarify.
Author:
Posted on: 2010-02-20 02:36:00 UTC
Most of the low tech weaponry in the movie was due to isolation (they could make it on-site) and the peculiar magnetic fields that would screw with the workings of guns running on magnetic propulsion. They used antimatter for the ISV to get up to near-light speed.
Is there Fusion power mentioned anywhere in the books?
I know that Canon is the Name of the Game here, but ever since I saw the movie (and began reading internet discussion boards), some things have bugged me.. okay alot of things, but the seemingly exaggerated state of Earth's decay and the improbably large population (32 Billion? Isn't it supposed to peak at about 12 Billion about 50 years before the movie?) are the worst. So... Here's my thoughts for an AU fic.
-Earth is.. not an Eden, but certainly not as bad as in the script. Global Warming has taken it's toll, a third-world exodus has taken place, some ecosystems have dissappeared forever. However, gigantic gene-banks house the DNA of every endangered species scientists could get their hands on, Bengal Tigers have been cloned after nearly 70 years of extinction and widespread fusion power (and extensive water-pipelines to even out the effects of drought and deluge) are finally beginning to allow us to heal much of the damage we inflicted.
-The Off-world Colonies (Luna and mars) are a slightly different story. The Moon is an "ivory Tower" technocracy specializing in the research and manufacture of high-tech equipment and products (If that Clear-Screen don't say "Made on Luna", it's junk) Mars is an industrial colony /terraforming project, mostly populated by Third World overflow, fed with vast, subterranean algae farms and governed (at times) as an RDA Police State. This was the source of the Scully Brothers, orphaned at 8 in a 3-week long uprising (which was put down in the interest of "Industrial security") Tom and Jake were then (borderline) adopted by the RDA, and schooled to serve them in the future.
Now, to Pandora.
-The changes here are stark. First off, Hell's Gate is based around the Hometree of a Na'vi clan that the RDA basically saved from starvation when they first arrived. Mining is done around the roots mostly by a complicated and costly process of air-drilling and leaving ore-free pillars of rock to support the tree until they can put in better supports. (though the removal of the mineral may soon show to have a detrimental effect in itself).
Selfridge is more competent, Quaritch is a UN-Mission Hero from the humanitarian interventions in West Africa (brought in to hopefully control the PMC thugs that RDA budgeted for this thing). The Local Na'vi are becoming more acclimatized to Earth technology and social customs (or in the Words of Grace Augustine, "Turning them into Welsh Coal Miners")
-The Omaticaya are much different. Initially, they were as open to the idea as the others, but as the expansion plans became more fleshed out, doubts grew. Total break-down occured when a group of young hunters were caught vandalizing pit-mining equipment (for an area that was supposed to be reclaimed later), were tracked to Dr. Augustine's school in the forest (who was there at the time), and were promptly shot up by Sgt. Lyle Wainfleet. Grace's avatar spent a month in the base ICU... the oldest daughter of the Omaticaya clan leaders didn't make it, her death witnessed by her younger sister, Neytiri.
-The first signs of Quaritch's mental breakdown come when he was supposed to hand over Wainfleet to the Omaticaya in order to get some sort of peace out of it. Quaritch claims he delivered Lyle, the Omaticaya deny it... and only Trudy Chachon, the Sampson pilot for that trip, knows the truth. For the first half of the story, she stays quiet about it.
Well?
The Earth really *is* screwed-- so says the Word of Cameron. A direct quote from the guide to everything Avatar "We've devastated our planet. We're neck-deep in festering industrial muck, in a trash heap of ever-expanding waster and decay. Overpopulation, overdevelopment, nuclear terrorism, environmental warfare, radiation leakage from power plants and waste dumps, toxic runoff, air pollution, deforestation, global warming, ozone depletion, loss of bio-diversity through extinction..." So much for the exaggerated state, Gandalf the Beige. Page one(of actual text), James Cameron's Avatar: An Activist Survival Guide.
In the section about flora, it says that plants from Pandora are being used to heal what's left of the Pittsburgh wastelands--and that they're *thriving.* Pandora's atmosphere is mostly CO2(18%+), Hydrogen Sulfide(toxic concentration less than 1%), Xenon(5.5%), and Argon, along with O2. Therefore, Earth *cannot* be as well off as you have tried to explain it.
Yes, there is a colony on the moon, but nothing about Mars-- sorry, but you're out of luck there. The moon is also, according to what I could find from official sources, a cess pit with more humans living in itty-bitty spaces than is safe(oh, and Earth's population is only 20 billion).
To address the Gene Banks--sorry, pretty much everything but worms, cockroaches, grubs, and humans are *EXTINCT* in every sense of the word. Power-- that's a big fish. There is an extreme energy crisis on Earth(not to mention overpopulation, eternal war, extermination of life as we know it...) is why people went to the stars(i.e. Pandora) in the first place. There is no ozone layer, all water is pretty much toxic--and tastes like turpentine after its been filtered to within an inch of its life. No, the damage is not being healed--not on the scale that you're suggesting. Enviromentalists from Na'vi Nuts(TM) are smuggling flora in from Pandora to see if they can heal the Earth, but at the rate that the RDA is arresting and torturing/killing them, I don't think that's going to well.
The Sully brothers, that's *Sully,* dear, not *Scully,* were born and raised on Earth, and until Cameron says otherwise, I'm going to say that their parents are still alive(oh, and I claim that Mini).
On the Hell's Gate--Omaticaya and Hometree situation- The RDA was never allowed to mine there in the first place. That's why they destroyed Hometree in the movie. Yes, they did mine, but they were never near Hometree. The Omaticaya clan would also never have been near starvation. The planet has incredible sustainable growth--where Earth is spiraling out of control(and into a toxic hell), Pandora maintains a constant equilibrium. They wouldn't have needed saving, and even if they did, they would have gone to another clan or Eywa(through the Tree of Souls)for help. Selfridge is, pardon my language, an evil corporate bastard. Quaritch is, once again pardon my language, an evil sadistic bastard from the depths of whatever hell spawned him. But he is a good soldier, I'll give him that. But a UN hero? Nah. One--the UN no longer exists, two--Quaritch likes killing people too much.
Have you done the i-phone app? Cause that's the only place I know of where the mining equipment was destroyed--it was only one BULLDOZER, and it was set on fire. Grace's Avatar never spent a month in ICU(from what *I* know), as she wasn't able to intervene before the hunters and Sylwanin were killed by the RDA--not Wainfleet specifically. And, from the incident you were talking about, Wainfleet wasn't there, nor was Quaritch. Quaritch arrived after Major Cage got his ass handed to him in a spectacular fashion by the Omaticaya(an Avatar named Lorenz, specifically). Trudy Chacon(ooh, another mini--You can have it, it's a mini-Turok named Trudy Chachon) would also have arrived with Quaritch, thus, she wouldn't have been able to witness the incident with Lorenz, the Omaticaya, and Major Cage.
I do apologize for poking holes in what might have been a great theory, but I had to. I love Avatar 'verse too much not to. And, this topic has already been picked over before(yes, I remember you), and should now stop. Earth is a cesspool of toxic waste, Pandora is an atmospherically-toxic paradise, and Quaritch and Selfridge are both assholes.
James Cameron is the Avatar 'verse God. What he says is Canon is FACT, therefore, when anyone says anything differently, we must stop them. I suggest reading the Survival Guide for more information.
Sincerely, the nitpicker;
-Honu_Wahine
My, quite acidic, don't you think?
You seem to be forgetting that the PPC is about fun, and fanfiction is about fun as well, and AUs can be fun, and if the Great Beige One cares to have a bit of fun in the sandbox, and is looking for opinions of others from a place they've frequented for far longer than you, the proper response is NOT to nit pick the fur off the dog.
The Avatar 'verse, I'm pretty sure, is nicely grounded in SOFT science fiction.
Maybe not as soft as O HAI MR SKYWALKER THAT SURE IS A NICE LIGHTSABER YOU HAVE THAR, but by no means is it a world of hard hard science fiction.
Surprisingly, one IS allowed to not check every single thing in extracanonical material when making an AU, since y'know, alternate universe is alternative, the Pearl Jam to AC/DC, and extra stuff costs extra, after all.
Just because you're on the Board now and with the PPC doesn't mean you can treat everything as serious business and as if it is an affront to the holy, oh so holy, idea of writing fanfiction if it deviates even slightly from canon or your own personal preferences.
Teal Deer:
Shaddup, calm down, get over yourself and your fandom a bit, this is for fun, not profit.
I just thought I'd "correct" (canon is canon after all) some seemingly egregious exxagerations about the future of earth (pop. level, whether there'd be that much pollution with fusion power, etc.) and the plot and minor character changes just grew from there.
Doesn't mean you deserved to be talked to like you're some fanbrat who decided what Avatar needed was shiny sparkles and pretty or that this sort of thing deserves to be treated like it is SRS BSNS (instead of as a hobby).
I didn't want to give offense... seems I never want to and if I do, I always feel horrible about it.
(Enters Completely Smegging Delusional mode)
Besides, I'm saving up all my rage for when Rowling writes Books 8, 9 and 10, proving us right.
Beige - Who likes to think of himself as the Harmonian Sgt. Reznov (URA!!!)
(Exists Completely Smegging Delusional mode)
(:P)
I'm inclined to agree with July, that that reply was way over the line.
I apologize. I am a nutcase, I forgot to read his entire post(specifically the part about his wanting to write an AU), when I wrote my reply. I did not intend to cause any harm, but the fanfiction that seems to be coming out about Avatar is pretty much bad--what I've found at least--and it's making me rather cranky, and prone to being rather rude. If I've offended the board too much, I'll just stop posting in this thread, and find something else to read.
After the last bit of fanfiction, I've become obsessed with the facts and canon of Avatar 'verse to the point of becoming a bitchy, nasty, slightly sadistic person. I am in love with the Avatar universe, and, yes, while some of it seems over the top, it is what's canon, until Cameron puts out the next two movies or other proof to the contrary.
Once again--apologies for being just a bit too obsessive over my canon of choice.
-Honu_Wahine
I ran across this particular story a bit after I saw the movie, and I thought it was fairly good.
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5626349/1/TheEndeavorsof_Art
Multi-chapter, intrigue and completely canonical.
THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOU! This has totally made my day. Only one chapter in, and I'm already in love with it. If I didn't think that it'd get me virtually mauled by everyone on the board, I'd give an enormous fangirly "SQUEE!" of joy.
You deserve a medal for finding this. Seriously, you do. But since I can't find you a virtual medal, have a plate of virtual brownies.
-Thank Hades below,
Honu_Wahine
I thank you from the bottom of my rehydration units.
But don't get too comfy, I'm coming with a new badfic report soon and between you and me, it's the worst, possibly most squicky Harry Potter Harry/Hermione fic I've ever seen (and as an OTP'er of that ship, that's saying alot, although it does have one redeeming feature).
And some from lower in the thread, too. Awesome. *noms them*
~Neshomeh
I'm sorry that I thought that something like this would go down well here. But hey, there's always AH. com
(look up Mr. Shine, that's me)
However, I said, right in the title that it was AU: Alternate Universe. Everything that went on on Pandora was (mostly) believable... but once they start discussing or (in the dvd) portraying earth, my willing suspension of disbelief drops right through the floor. I (thought I) said that it was an idea for an AU fanfic: if I wrote it, I'd label it as such, as a rewrite in response to what a lot of people have complained about.
I'm sorry for posting this... I'm sorry for stepping on your toes, but I thought that I might as well put my thoughts somewhere.
I guess I know better now.
Beige - feeling kind of peeved... and wondering at this organization's policy on AU's
(For those who are interested, it's channel #PPC on Blitzed, by the way)
Contrary to what has been posted, simply being an AU definitely does not make a fic badfic, either in reality or in the eyes of this community. Conversely, though, saying "This is an AU" is no shield for bad writing and poor logic.
Creating a good AU isn't the easiest - To paraphrase Earthsea, to change a part of the world is to change the entire world. Anything you change will have (or will have had) consequences that shake the entire storyline, and a lot of authors don't take the time to think them through. That is what makes so many AUs badfic, not the fact that they start from a different series of assumptions.
I haven't seen Avatar, so I can't comment on how well what you've come up with fits with the movie and other Canon. However, you have some very good points. 32 billion is an immense number, way beyond what a 50 years post-peak civilization would have. Your changes to Pandora are slightly more concerning to me - once again, I haven't seen the film, but from what I've heard, it's very much a humans-are-bad type thing. This would make putting Hell's Gate in a hometree and saving a clan of Na'vi very much out of character for the Canonical RDA.
To summarize, AUs are perfectly valid. Any fanfiction that deviates from the Canon at all is essentially asking "what if?" - all calling a fic 'AU' really says is that the "what if" happened in the past instead of the present. However, AUs are very easy to do poorly, so you're going to have to put a lot of extra thought into making sure everything works out right. Remember the butterfly effect - even tiny changes can have massive consequences.
-Good PR in "helping" the natives.
-Getting a ready-made workforce
-"Civilizing" the natives
I envisioned this particular future-earth in a Neo-Victorian "Age of Progress" with an immense faith in technology, hope that the future is getting better (as the effects of the industrial age are beginning to be mitigated) and an immense focus on making your own way, blazing to the stars and exploring the Howling Dark. The only reason they aren't trying to religiously convert the Na'vi is that Corporate doesn't give a hoot about that (except for how it affects their profits) and that it didn't play well with the focus groups.
I also had a thought about Selfridge being there as punishment for having an Affair with the CEO's wife. That way he could still be an almost Dilbert-esqe idiot as long as he had competent underlings.
That's an angle I hadn't considered. It does sort of change the feel of the Canon from the whole "humans are evil" thing (which I think is overdone and dogmatic, anyways), but it makes a lot of sense.
But definitely the experimental AU. It all begins to take shape.
Selfridge is indignant because he doesn't understand that the circumstances that necessitated the Hells' Gate Clans accepting RDA charity are not normal. Grace is ticked because one of the thugs under Quaritch shot up her and her school and got off (to her knowledge) scot-free. Quaritch, in accordance to Lang's interview, is a good man who, slowly and surely, is seeing more and more problems as nails to be fixed with a military hammer, compounded by minor brain damage from viperwolf attack and a secret pain-med addiction (stole this from another fic).
And let me say that the Destruction of Hometree would come as MUCH more of a shock in this version.
This is deep-level AU, so I don't know how it would go on this site.
I think the only thing you'll not find here is a community of people who really know Avatar. I haven't seen the movie, and the discussion that happened when it came out was hardly to the same depth that some other films have been discussed.
Ultimately, see the board constitution. Interesting conversation is always welcome, regardless of topic. This would probably not be the best venue for long, multi-page epic discussions of every nuance of the AU, but a single thread on it is hardly excessive. Also, when you put pen to paper and get it on paper, please link us to it! Good fic is our friend, and I'm sure boarders would be happy to provide solid concrit.
Maybe I'm just a bit sensative (been away from HERE too long), but my "pandoran-biosphere-in-south-america" timeline is a bit of a minor hit over at AlternateHistory.com and... well, fame does things to people (thing's I don't LIKE, but things all the same).
I should apologize for that rant. You said you were wanting to write an *AU* for the universe. *headwall* I should probably have read your post a bit better. But still, even with an AU label, you'd be stretching canon pretty far. Look at what happens to Lord of the Rings, especially concerning poor Legolas. And most, if not all of those fics have an AU label on them.
I'm not saying that an AU is a bad thing, but that your constructed idea is a fairly shaky one. You'd be tossing aside or ignoring most of the canon facts, and tossing aside ones that are integral to the structure of the universe. If you have the Omaticaya near starvation, then you'd be destroying Pandora, a beautiful planet with incredible sustainable growth. There is a complete equilibrium on that planet, and according to Word of Cameron, Earth food is horrible. I wouldn't touch it with a 39 1/2 foot pole. Algae and grubs? Eww.
But the incident that you were wanting to put in your story-- pretty good, solid idea. Maybe put it with another clan? Maybe the Tipani, or make one of your own?
If I think of any other nit-picky ideas for you, I'll post 'em here, or contact you (where do I do that, anyways?).
-Abelas,
Honu_Wahine
I meant that ANOTHER, fictional clan would be the one's near starvation and under the RDA thumb... and probably because of something that the RDA (or the exploration party) probably caused. I based this off of something in the original Project 880 script, where Grace (her avatar, i assume) is in an intimate relationship with one of the "Base Na'vi".
And I know that Canon Earth is a hellhole, but I just feel that it doesn't fit with current projections (population levels) or even other canon stuff (possible fusion power, so what would be the major source of pollution?).
Alright, that's a bit naive, but if (in my version, mars and the moon have been colonized for industry, then Earth would have to become an agricultural world to feed everyone (hence the destruction of natural ecosystems to replace it with high-intensity agriculture).
So cliff notes:
-RDA messed something up, a Na'vi clan payed the price, RDA played "savior" and introduced video games, refined sugar and rock&roll
-A mixture of staffing decisions populates hells gate with both the cream of the scientific crop and a bunch of mercenary thugs (though they bring in the All-American Hero to teach them discipline... too bad he may be going insane)
-The Omaticaya, a clan further into the foothills, start a guerilla insurgency when first their Olo'eyktans eldest daughter is killed, and secondly when they begin to discover that the mining is actually beginning to kill the Hell's Gate Kelkutral.
-unobtainium is worth 1 Billion a Kilo.
-Situation on earth is a little more realistic (in a lot of peoples opinions), by being COMPARATIVELY crappy, not "half the theatre audience commits suicide" crappy.
Hehe. That last one was kinda funny.
Unobtanium(and this is just a nutty quibble), is worth 40 mill a Kilogram. Funny thing--one geek on the wiki calculated the cost to make the movie in unobtanium, and it came to 11.85 kg of the stuff. Gross revenue came to 119.5525 kg. Yeah, I look these up because I have no life to speak of.
And, well, those projections are *current*. Who says they can't change? But that idea could work...if you worked really hard... But the power is mostly nuclear, and the fusion thing wouldn't work, as I see it(for Hade's sake, they're still using *rockets*), but with a bit of fancy footwork, it might work. Yeah, the moon's been colonized, and I supposed by then Mars would have been to... Just put all my insane replies to your stuff as insane anger left over from a fic by some fanbrat with a horrendous, horrendous, horrendous grasp of canon. But still.... Eh. Just ignore the insane girl--I've been a Avatard since day one(what can I say, I'm obsessive).
Before you put any Na'vi dialouge in, could you please read the Na'vi dictionary in the back of the Activist Survival Guide? Reading fanfiction's phonetic spelling of Na'vi and some of the made up words are...painful.
Good luck with your story--and if I review, please know that I nitpick everything to death. It's a bad, bad habit I learned from Tirathon (on the Pit).
-Honu_Wahine(the Avatar nitpicker)
Most of the low tech weaponry in the movie was due to isolation (they could make it on-site) and the peculiar magnetic fields that would screw with the workings of guns running on magnetic propulsion. They used antimatter for the ISV to get up to near-light speed.
Is there Fusion power mentioned anywhere in the books?
Nope, not really. Fusion takes second base to antimatter(it's kind of...mentioned once-ish in over 200 pages of minuscule writing, and nowhere on the sites) The only ship(now that I look in my guidebook--d'oh *headwall*) is the ISV Venture Star, and I think that got... No, the shuttle was blown up, not the big ship in orbit. Oh well.
The weaponry available--well, given the current trend, it could be available in the next 20 to 30 years (50 at the most).
All it is, is our stuff on steroids with "smarter" computers and really big freakin' guns. The guns are cool though...
Some of the stuff *can* however, be taken out with a well-placed rock or a good tripwire(at the height of your choice: decapitation, anyone?).
Probably the most advanced (IMHO) piece of weaponry that they have would be the MBS-22A Automated Sentry Gun. It's a big honkin piece of shit(compared to some of the stuff most sci-fi geeks come up with in twenty minutes), fires ball bearings, tracer rounds, and needles. Nasty little bastard, huh?
Everything else is stuff like chainsaws, machine guns, and SNS's on steroids like it was going out of style.
If you want any of the specs, just ask.(How big do you think we can make this thread before they tell us to quit?)
-Honu_Wahine(the giggling maniac with a book)
On the ship it takes second place to Antimatter (probably to power the more delicate internal systems).
Personally, I found the weaponry to be VERY realistic.