Maybe, maybe not.

Subject: Maybe, maybe not.
Author: Huinesoron
Posted on: 2014-08-19 15:37:00 UTC

The description of vantablack sounds like structural colouration, AKA photonics. That means the structure of the substance is what causes the colour, not electron-based interactions like most things. Butterfly wings are coloured the same way. But that means that if you alter the structure - say, by replacing the air around it with a hard resin - you could very well remove the photonic effect.

Interestingly, you can do the same thing with sound waves as well as light waves; there's a sculpture somewhere, I think in Germany, which consists of an array of vertical metal poles. Because of how they're placed, they completely damp all sound that tries to pass through them.

hS

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Scientists create suvian colour in World One! by the Irish Samurai on 2014-08-18 13:37:00 UTC Reply

Is it just me, or does that subject line look like the kind of headline that might appear in the Multiverse Monitor?

Anyway, scientists have apparently created Dark Black, although for some strange reason they haven't called it that, and have gone with vantablack instead.

It's so non-reflective that only 0.035% of the light that hits it gets bounced back, which means that the human eye can't pick out any textures, folds or ridges within the shape, just the outer edges of it.

I think that's pretty cool.

That's just weird. by eatpraylove on 2014-08-18 23:34:00 UTC Reply

Also, all the uses that article mentioned went right over my head. Anybody wanna translate them for me?

Re: That's just weird. by zdimensia on 2014-08-19 04:24:00 UTC Reply

Vantablack doesn't allow light to escape, so the energy eventually becomes heat. So the solar applications are probably very efficient.

For cameras and telescopes, it cuts down on reflections inside the lens assembly by trapping the unwanted light. I assume that with long exposures, you get strange effects if you don't limit it as much as possible.

You know what the bad thing is? by Anonymouse on 2014-08-18 21:16:00 UTC Reply

We can't charge for "Dark Black" as a Suvian color anymore. It defaults to Vantablack.

However, we can charge for Dark Black in specific textures (like "fuzzy"), or picking out textures like " crumpled" in Dark Black without feeling it. Remember, this color relys on a specific material (carbon nanotubes) to be produced, and you can't see textures in it.

How durable is it? by zdimensia on 2014-08-18 21:46:00 UTC Reply

Can you touch vantablack without damaging it? Or is it impossible to scratch?

We have an answer here! Also general structure. by Anonymouse on 2014-08-19 18:58:00 UTC Reply

Vantablack is described here as " It withstands launch shock, staging and long-term vibration, and is suitable for coating internal components, such as apertures, baffles, cold shields and Micro Electro Mechanical Systems (MEMS) –type optical sensors."

Sounds pretty durable to me. I mean, it is made of carbon nanotubes.

As for general structure, it's described here. Not as complex as once thought.
You could always make it stronger... by AdmiralSakai on 2014-08-19 15:21:00 UTC Reply

Just put some kind of hard resin or other coating over it. That'll diminish its properties somewhat because no coating is 100% transparent, but it'll still be extremely black.

Wouldn't work. by Anonymouse on 2014-08-19 18:51:00 UTC Reply

The light that would beabsorbed by the first coating of Vantablack would be reflected by the second coating of resin. No transparent material is completely nonreflective, there's always glare or reflections. Besides, any damage to the second coating of resin, like scratches, would simply have the same effect as damage to the Vantablack coating itself.
Maybe, maybe not. by Huinesoron on 2014-08-19 15:37:00 UTC Reply

The description of vantablack sounds like structural colouration, AKA photonics. That means the structure of the substance is what causes the colour, not electron-based interactions like most things. Butterfly wings are coloured the same way. But that means that if you alter the structure - say, by replacing the air around it with a hard resin - you could very well remove the photonic effect.

Interestingly, you can do the same thing with sound waves as well as light waves; there's a sculpture somewhere, I think in Germany, which consists of an array of vertical metal poles. Because of how they're placed, they completely damp all sound that tries to pass through them.

hS

I'm not so sure... by AdmiralSakai on 2014-08-19 20:18:00 UTC Reply

Although we're getting increasingly far away from my actual feild, I think that so long as the resin was transparent it wouldn't do too much to affect the transition between the nanotubes and the outside world- vantablack looks Dark Black from all angles, so it's unlikely refraction would make a difference.

I also wonder, on those scales, whether the resin molecues would even fit in between the nanotubes to any appreciable degree. I could be off on several orders of magnitude with that estimate, though.

Durability by Anonymouse on 2014-08-18 22:29:00 UTC Reply

Carbon nanotubes are a pretty strong material, and potential applications include military camouflage, so it's probably pretty strong.

However, you have to remember that it's a coating. You can't have something made out of Dark Black, but you can have something coated in it.

Exactly. by the Irish Samurai on 2014-08-18 21:40:00 UTC Reply

There are plenty of times that we could still charge for Dark Black.

As you've said, it uses a specially arranged matrix of carbon nanotubes to achieve the effect - now a canon like Star Wars probably has access to that kind of technology. Things like Lord of the Rings...? I'm gonna go with 'unlikely'.

You had to bring it up. Now fic happens. by Huinesoron on 2014-08-19 09:21:00 UTC Reply

Nerdanel tapped on the door. "Feanor," she said, "you haven't been out in three days. You missed Caranthir's begetting-day." Again, she added silently.

There was a clatter from inside the locked workshop, and then her husband's voice came drifting through the metal. "No, I can't have," he said. "That's still a dozen minglings away. You said so yourself."

Nerdanel passed a hand over her eyes. "Feanor," she said patiently, "I told you that last time you locked yourself away."

"Oh." Nerdanel could practically feel her husband's mind racing as he tried to account for the missing time. "Well," he said at last, "at least I got my palantiri finished. They were an important step in the Project."

Nerdanel held back a groan. Always, now, Feanor's mind was on 'the Project' - though he refused to tell her what it was. All she knew was that it had something to do with crystals - and light.

There was another clatter, and then to Nerdanel's amazement, the door actually opened - at least a little, before sticking on some unseen obstacle. Feanor peered out.

"I'm just about done here, anyhow," he said. "Caranthir is upstairs, I presume."

"He's gone hunting with Celegorm and Angrod," Nerdanel told him. "I understand Orome has been showing Celegorm some new riding skills."

"Oh." Feanor looked puzzled, then shrugged. "I suppose it will give me time to prepare his gift, then."

"Is that what you've been doing?" Nerdanel was skeptical in the extreme. And there was something strange about the smudges on her husband's face...

"No," Feanor said - whatever his faults, he was always honest - "but this test has been a failure otherwise. I don't think diamonds are at all suited for the Project; it takes so little effort to change them utterly."

"I'm certain it does," Nerdanel agreed. "I don't think the boys will be gone that long, Feanor..."

"No, I'm sure," Feanor said. He reached back into his workshop and fumbled on a bench. "Tell me, Nerdanel," he said, "what do you think of... this?"

He held up the item triumphantly, and Nerdanel scrutinised it. "... it's a bowl."

"Well, yes-"

"In fact, it's one of my bowls. The one my mother made me for our wedding."

"Ah." For a moment - just a moment - Feanor looked nonplussed. "Well, never mind that, I'll make you another one."

"I don't want another-" But Feanor wasn't listening.

"As you can see, it's just an ordinary bowl."

"My ordinary-"

"But if I turn it around..." He suited action to word, and spun the bowl to show Nerdanel the interior.

Nerdanel frowned. "You've filled it with something," she said. "What is that, coal? Onyx? No, it's not reflective enough to be onyx. Some form of black clay?"

"It isn't filled."

Nerdanel rolled her eyes. "Feanor," she said, "I can see for myself-"

"It isn't filled," her husband said again, quietly. "Check for yourself."

Dubiously, Nerdanel reached out to touch the filling - and her hand passed straight through, into the bowl, until her fingers touched the base. She pulled her hand back as if stung, and stared at the smudges on her fingertips - blacker-than-black marks that seemed to suck in all light.

"Like I said," Feanor mused, "diamonds are absolutely unsuitable."

Nerdanel raised her gaze to Feanor's face, smudged with the same disturbing, light-eating material. "Feanor," she breathed, "how... what...?"

"I call it Dark Black," Feanor said with a satisfied smile. "Now, about Caranthir's present..."

Because Feanor would invent carbon nanotubes by accident.

hS

You can't possibly blame me for that. by the Irish Samurai on 2014-08-19 12:52:00 UTC Reply

I deny any and all responsibility over the things that you choose to write. Also, I just knew that if I said carbon nanotubes couldn't appear in LotR that you'd have something in response, so I just thought I'd let you know that I'm not trolling you at all when I say that carbon nanotubes have no place in Narnia :)

This was a fun little story. I have absolutely no idea who any of the characters are, but their characterisation came across really well in such a short space of time.

My favourite line is Nerdanel's '... it's a bowl.', just for the absolute deadpan delivery I imagined it in. That whole following conversation about how it's one of her bowls was very funny too.

Okay. by Ailavyn Siniyash on 2014-08-18 18:55:00 UTC Reply

Wow. That's really awesome. I want some.

-Aila

(But yeah, it will probably make life five times more difficult for the agents.)
I need to grab some of that stuff... by DemonFiren on 2014-08-18 16:11:00 UTC Reply

...I'm just not sure if ninjas would buy from me or steal their own.
In addition... by AdmiralSakai on 2014-08-18 14:05:00 UTC Reply

There's a group of neurologists who, while unable to create a surface "painted" in the colors, have developed methods of making people see "bluish yellow" and "reddish green".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impossible_colors
Augh! My eyes! by Huinesoron on 2014-08-18 14:00:00 UTC Reply

Yeah, all right, I know... I'm sort of hoping everyone will use obfuscated subject lines so's no-one can figure out what the actual colour is until they click. ;) Anyway:

Wow, that... that's creepy. And really impressive. And very... very... black?

I can see how it can be useful, though. Also, my heart is warmed by the fact that Wikipedia wrote to the inventors asking for free-licensed pictures - and got some!

hS

Here, have this spork (can you guess what colour it is?). by the Irish Samurai on 2014-08-18 21:33:00 UTC Reply

You know, in case you need to spork your own eyes out. Alternatively, have some Bleeprin - I hear it's just as effective, but without the awkward side effects.

And yes, it is very black. The only thing I can think of that would be blacker is an actual black hole, but I think they might be slightly impractical to use a colouring.

Have we considered... by Phobos on 2014-08-18 22:13:00 UTC Reply

...the wisdom of the lyrics "got to be good looking cause he's so hard to see"? Maybe this is a really good looking color?

Also, perhaps this is the color of a plothole. It would make sense, to me.

-Phobos

Plotholes. by the Irish Samurai on 2014-08-19 12:40:00 UTC Reply

I've always imagined the naturally occurring plotholes, as opposed to the ones intentionally generated by the PPC for navigation, look like shimmery (possibly even sparkly if they're bad enough), highly concentrated heat hazes. So they'll visually distort whatever is behind them, and although you can see that there is something there, you can't tell what it actually is.

I suppose something in vantablack would also have a similar effect. And there's nothing to say that all plotholes have to identical. So yeah, that makes sense to me too.
Plothole by Anonymouse on 2014-08-18 22:32:00 UTC Reply

I always imagined plotholes letting everything through, including light, hence HQ being able to snake through them and nobody noticing until they realize how confusing the halls are.

Hrm... by Desdendelle on 2014-08-18 23:39:00 UTC Reply

I've always thought plotholes are just that - holes in the fabric of reality, so to speak. And a hole does not have substance in and of itself - it's an absence of something. (That's why 'black hole' is a bit of a misnomer, 'cause it ain't no hole, it's just something way too heavy for its own good.)

I could see these being very, very annoying... by AdmiralSakai on 2014-08-18 14:09:00 UTC Reply

Considering that Dark Black is black enough to actually obscure the details of what's painted in it, trying to navigate, say, a Dark Black hallway or fire a Stu's "dark black tactical rifle" could result in substantial navigational problems.

Well then. by Anonymouse on 2014-08-18 13:50:00 UTC Reply

Personally, I was expecting something a little more damaging to the eyes when I read the headline, but this works too.