True, but...

Subject: True, but...
Author: EchoesofMemory
Posted on: 2014-08-08 03:46:00 UTC

Even the movies aren't true canon. Yes, they're pretty damn close, but they get a ton wrong.

Even if it's just a cliff notes version (with descriptions of the major players), that's got to be a lot easier for the (not so smart) fangirls out there who don't know anything about the religious system of Arda because it's not in the movies and therefore feel as if they can make up whatever they want. *gasps and starts panting*

Of course, when I say LotR, I mean The Silmarillion, The Hobbit, AND Lord of the Rings. I guess (for me) it's a general term for the universe?

I'll see what I can find about the Department of Author Correspondence. Any idea about how I'd start that up again?

Oh, the non-extended version is even worse than the movies in the term of stuff gone wrong. Anybody working on the discrepancies between book and movie?

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Hello! by EchoesofMemory on 2014-08-07 04:34:00 UTC Reply

Hello! I'm new here (and relatively tender at this point, but not very juicy, apologies to those flesh-eating creatures).

Usually, when I find badfic, I cringe and leave quickly (mainly because reviewing does nothing except get angyry raooaoring from the author (sic)), but it's nice to know that there's a group devoted to doing something about this.

I was reading the 'For Other People' page and I'm not all the way through it, but I noticed there wasn't anything addressing the fact that some of the books the movies are based on are 'looooooong and booooooooring', which I understand (seriously, LotR is boring. And very passive sounding, though I don't believe it isn't actually written in passive voice... And yes, I'm aware this makes me a bad Tolkienian, but hey, at least I have read (part of) it!).

Is there a division of the PPC devoted to this already?

If not, do you think people would get mad if I (and, if anyone else is willing to help, maybe a few other people) summarized, paraphrased, and/or quoted the original stories in an effort to, if not get the badfic!authors to actually read the stories, then give them some idea of the universes they're mucking up?

>

Re: Hello! by eatpraylove on 2014-08-08 19:58:00 UTC Reply

I like your idea of giving them a summary. How do you suggest we go about it? PM the author? Make it a cool post on Tumblr?

Also, hi, newbie! Your welcome gift is a K.K. Slider plushie, complete with guitar! (K.K. Slider is a dog musician from the Animal Crossing series. He's cool.)

:D by EchoesofMemory on 2014-08-08 23:52:00 UTC Reply

PLUSHIE. *squees* I love plushies and stuffed (eldritch) creatures! :D

Also, I was thinking more like an index. So we can go, Oh, hello, dumb author. Before you continue writing, please read these indeces/summaries: blah diddity blah blah blah.

Iunno, no idea. :|

Hello! by son_of_heaven176 on 2014-08-08 15:50:00 UTC Reply

Welcome to the PPC! It's pretty obvious by this point that you are a Tolkien nut; do you have any other fandoms?

Speaking of Tolkien Sues, have you ever read The Game of the Gods? It's a very funny fic.

As for your newbie gift:
*rummages through bag of holding*
Aha!
Have some non-enchanted, definitely-not-magical replicas of the Silmarils!

I do have more fandoms by EchoesofMemory on 2014-08-08 23:54:00 UTC Reply

It's more like what fandom was I NOT apart of at some point? (Very few, unless they're in any way, shape, or form scary. Even if it was only mildly terrifying.)

I'm working my way through it now. Morgoth being behind Mary Sues explains so much.

SILMARILS. BRAND NEW NIGHT LIGHTS/FLASHLIGHTS. :D

*waves* by Ailavyn Siniyash on 2014-08-08 00:23:00 UTC Reply

Hello and welcome!

I give to you a lined Infinite Notebook, complete with urple covers and wilver binding! (Don't look at it straight on--I would prefer your sight stay intact, all things considered.)

-Aila

Thanks...I think? by EchoesofMemory on 2014-08-08 03:30:00 UTC Reply

Err, right. Having (finally) figured out what 'urple' is (though still missing wilver...), I do hope you aren't insulted if I cover it in butch paper? Then I can doodle on it! *does so*

Am I correct in assuming it never runs out of paper?

*shrugs* I have an overstock. by Ailavyn Siniyash on 2014-08-08 03:38:00 UTC Reply

Oh, and wilver is what you get when you combine white and silver in the worst possible way.

(http://ppc.wikia.com/wiki/SueColourSpectrum)

That's a great idea, and you are correct!

-Aila

This will be so helpful! by EchoesofMemory on 2014-08-08 03:50:00 UTC Reply

, For a variety of reasons - I have muy difficult classes this semester (being a senior SUCKS), I've recently started planning a web series loosely based off of Supernatural (in the seriously loosest way possible - it's about a Wiccan who camps on a natural pathway between worlds), and it's looking like I might be reviving a department of the PPC to get cliff notes and spark notes versions of original books out there.

... I think I might need some help.

Well hello there! by AdmiralSakai on 2014-08-07 16:26:00 UTC Reply

Have a Carafe of Continuous Caffeine! I promise it doesn't break any major laws of physics... much...

In regards to your proposal I'm glad to see that I'm not alone in finding the LotR series rather... ponderous. I think that a quick "cliff's notes for canon" setup would be useful not just for authors, but for people like me who interact with the canon without really being "fans". If you decide to go through with it I'd be happy to help expand it to other fandoms with a large insider-outsider rift.

Thanks! by EchoesofMemory on 2014-08-08 03:34:00 UTC Reply

This'll be great for late nights spent frantically trying to balance my workload of college and high school classes! Besides, who cares about physics? Gravity is overrated.

I was thinking more like Spark notes, perhaps? Now that you mention it, a cliff notes version for *bleep*y writers would be fantastic, and a non-cliff notes versions + discussions on theories, meanings, and other fascinating trivia would be great.

I'm getting ahead of myself, though. (This is a habit, one that has led to issues before. :/ )

Re: Hello! by Antigone68104 on 2014-08-07 11:59:00 UTC Reply

Hi, have some fudge!

Thanks! by EchoesofMemory on 2014-08-08 03:35:00 UTC Reply

FUDGE. *tackles*

Heya! by Iximaz on 2014-08-07 11:43:00 UTC Reply

Welcome to the Board! As a present, I give you a honking rabbit! He's very fluffy and he has great big nasty teeth. He eats fanbrats. ;)

May your sporks never dull!

Muahahahaha by EchoesofMemory on 2014-08-08 03:37:00 UTC Reply

Thank you, he will be very helpful as I troll for *bleep*y fics! *pets the rabbit* HE SHALL BE CALLED BRUTUS FOR HE IS EBIL AND A BANE TO BAD WRITERS.

And I don't think they will, I have a spork sharpener. *grins evilly*

Ebil is like evil, only cutely devious. >:)

Hello there. by Desdendelle on 2014-08-07 08:22:00 UTC Reply

-Crawls out of the woodwork-
-Points to the Constitution, Wiki, and Original Series-
-Sets up a table with tea, scones, and jam-
Don't let the leaves eat you.

Thank you! by EchoesofMemory on 2014-08-08 03:39:00 UTC Reply

*sits at table cautiously and waves phone* Already reading the original series, mostly through it; have the constitution bookmarked; and have the Wiki on favorited pages. All set!

Thanks for the food by the way. Jay and Acacia paint a... very interesting picture of the available food.

Well... by Desdendelle on 2014-08-08 23:43:00 UTC Reply

That's my food. It's not from the cafeteria, so it's edible. Tasty, even. The only catch is that the tea leaves try to eat people. And the tea is really bitter.

O_O by EchoesofMemory on 2014-08-08 23:56:00 UTC Reply

*looks at tea with wide eyes* I guess it's a good thing I don't actually drink tea.

I guess, if I want anything edible, I need to smuggle it in?

*scoots back from the table, taking the food*

Re: O_O by Desdendelle on 2014-08-09 12:52:00 UTC Reply

-The tea looks bad with a sad face. "Drink me," it seems to say.-

o_O by EchoesofMemory on 2014-08-09 17:42:00 UTC Reply

*scoots back a bit more* Um... I really don't like tea... The only one I drink is Sobe's green tea. :|

*pulls out sketchbook and laptop* Guess I'll read the Constitution now. *cautiously picks up the cup of tea and sips it*

Re: o_O by Desdendelle on 2014-08-09 21:51:00 UTC Reply

-Nothing happens. The tea is, indeed, rather bitter.-
Apparently they're not hungry.

Re: Hello! by SkarmorySilver on 2014-08-07 06:08:00 UTC Reply

Are 'newbies' allowed to give gifts to fellow newbies?

Ah screw it. Welcome, and have one of my shed feathers! Handle with care - I've heard people say it's still a wee bit sharp...

Thanks by EchoesofMemory on 2014-08-08 03:40:00 UTC Reply

*picks up feather gingerly* I'm sure this will come in handy. Ironic Sue death, anyone?

Welcome, Newcomer! by Snowy the Sane Fangirl on 2014-08-07 05:59:00 UTC Reply

I definitely understand your take on the badfic. I do that too unless it's spectacularly atrocious. (Though lately I've been thanked by the author of a fic that doesn't contain a word above three letters that's spelled correctly for eight consecutive scathingly sarcastic reviews. I think she's a troll.)

LotR is hard to get through unless you're an incredibly dedicated reader, which most people are not. (I only know one person in Real Life besides myself who's finished it.) I'm not going to go into the passivity of it (I find it quite exciting myself) but I do appreciate the fact that you've read some of it.

That is definitely an interesting idea. I think that might be a division of the Department of Author Correspondence. It's currently retired, but that's because everyone who worked there retired. If someone else were to be enlisted, that could be a definite thing. The downside of it is that I believe that if someone has watched the movies (the Extended Editions, anyway - I haven't actually seen the Non-Extended Editions) then one knows enough to not completely shred the canon as many do. Perhaps for books that have not been made into movies, or have been made into particularly poor movies, such as the Inheritance Cycle or the Prydian Chronicles. Of course more discussion on the topic would be called for.

And last, but most decidedly not least, since you've read through all my aimless ranting, have a magical stepstool and a graphite drawing of your favorite fictional locale in a green wooden frame!

True, but... by EchoesofMemory on 2014-08-08 03:46:00 UTC Reply

Even the movies aren't true canon. Yes, they're pretty damn close, but they get a ton wrong.

Even if it's just a cliff notes version (with descriptions of the major players), that's got to be a lot easier for the (not so smart) fangirls out there who don't know anything about the religious system of Arda because it's not in the movies and therefore feel as if they can make up whatever they want. *gasps and starts panting*

Of course, when I say LotR, I mean The Silmarillion, The Hobbit, AND Lord of the Rings. I guess (for me) it's a general term for the universe?

I'll see what I can find about the Department of Author Correspondence. Any idea about how I'd start that up again?

Oh, the non-extended version is even worse than the movies in the term of stuff gone wrong. Anybody working on the discrepancies between book and movie?

True. by Snowy the Sane Fangirl on 2014-08-08 03:59:00 UTC Reply

Poor Glorfindel and Tom Bombadil - they can't get themselves into a single movie adaption. Beregond, too... I guess I'd like to make a stand for SICTNIM. Making a stand for SICTNIM, here everybody! Support SICTNIM! Remember that some people are Still Important Characters Though Not In the Movie!

Anyway. Yeah, the bogus religious systems really blow my top. But it's not really the sort of thing they could work into the movies.

I think after you've got Permission you can do anything you want (within reason). I don't imagine reviving a retired department would be a big deal.

Well, it is PPC policy to treat movies as a valid canon, even movies like *shudder* the Chronicles of Narnia movies. You'd have to talk it over with someone licensed to give Permission.

Tom Bombadil by zdimensia on 2014-08-08 11:17:00 UTC Reply

I didn't get very far into this game before selling it, but Tom Bombadil was in it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TheLordoftheRings:TheFellowshipoftheRing%28video_game%29

I guess so. by Snowy the Sane Fangirl on 2014-08-08 17:38:00 UTC Reply

Not exactly a movie, but good point. I actually have that game for GBA. You didn't miss much, just Rivendell being the glitch capital of Middle-earth, Invisible!Gimli, and it freezing for no reason in Moria. There are rumors that they actually developed the game beyond that darn doorway, but I don't believe them.

But yeah, Tom Bombadil was in it. As I recall, he stood around and didn't do anything while the player has to go find his house by themselves and fight giant spiders to get a feather. Then he gives you vague instructions for calming Old Man Willow... I feel like he was a bit out of character. Don't even get me started on Goldberry.

To be fair, Glorfindel appeared too, in Rivendell, but the game kept confusing him with Lindir, which struck me as mildly offensive. But you're right, they did get in an appearance.

I don't think that really counts by EchoesofMemory on 2014-08-08 23:35:00 UTC Reply

Um, OOC and confusion, to me at least, is worse than not appearing at all. It means (once again, to me at least) that the creator didn't care enough to actually do any research, and that's just insulting.

I dislike those who don't do research. :|

Good point by EchoesofMemory on 2014-08-08 04:15:00 UTC Reply

Thanks for the wonderful advice. I'm thinking maybe book and movie should be treated as separate canons, as they're basically different. Similar, but different. Certainly would make classifying a (tiny) bit better...

Which people are licensed to give Permission?

At the moment... by Huinesoron on 2014-08-08 12:01:00 UTC Reply

... active Permission Givers are me (Hello!), Neshomeh, Phobos, Cassie, Techno-Dann, and VixenMage. Araeph is our occasionally-active PG, and Makari... well, I don't actually know about Makari; she was only really on the IRC.

The mucky details of Permission are linked in the Board header ('On Permission to Write PPC Stories'), but basically come down to: hang around a while, come up with some interesting and well-characterised agents, and show us you can write them well (enough).

As for your LotR comments... well, for one, I can't really see where you're coming from with 'boring' and 'passive'. As for the idea of coming up with a summary version of the Legendarium...

Well... Arda is big. I mean, really big. And there's no way of knowing what someone's going to try and reference. They could, say, try and write a Gandalf romance (yeah, it's been done), and claim that he can't have children because he's a demigod. Which is perfectly reasonable - except for the example of Melian. So what you really need is an encyclopaedia - and those exist.

See, the problem isn't that people can't find the information on the Legendarium; it's that they don't go looking in the first place. To pull across your example of religion, a Google search for 'middle earth gods' (no quotes) links directly to Wikipedia's entry for Vala. 'middle earth religion' gives the lotr.wikia entry on the subject, and two lines down, a FAQ about it. The information is absolutely there.

And it's not really something you'd need Permission for, either, if you could come up with a useful way to do it. Permission is for stories, and while I would read a story about a scholar musing on the history of Middle-earth (oh wait, I wrote that), I don't think many would - nor would it be easy to write for any length of time. So while it could be a publication issued by Author Correspondence, it's unlikely to be the subject of DAC stories.

hS

Hello, thanks for the info by EchoesofMemory on 2014-08-08 23:32:00 UTC Reply

It's amazing to meet you Huinesoron, I remember seeing you mentioned in the original series! *happy fangirling*

About LotR - I think it's fascinating, but I grew up on newer fiction, which is less about being a good book and more about keeping the ever-shrinking attention span of the younger generation. (Which may be the problem with badfic writers. Or mebbe it's that they don't read at all... :| )

I was possibly hoping that, if we had something we could link to, badfic writers would possibly try. Most of them base their stories off the easiest medium possible - the movies. (Of course, there are those that have read the books and STILL decide to do whatever they want. ARGH.) I think I still have too much faith in humanity/fellow fangirls.

Also, link clicked, story queued, ready to read. ^^

I'm not entirely sure. by Snowy the Sane Fangirl on 2014-08-08 04:21:00 UTC Reply

To be honest, I just don't pay that much attention. But if you go to ppc.wikia.com and search for "permission givers" there's probably a list.

Huinesoron told me by EchoesofMemory on 2014-08-08 23:36:00 UTC Reply

Thank you for that. Huinesoron saw the post and popped in to post a list of permission givers. :3

Hello by Seychelles on 2014-08-07 04:48:00 UTC Reply

Sorry can't answer your question. I'm really more of a Marvel maniac. Speaking of please take this X-men jacket and Loki Toy.

Aaaah, thank you! by EchoesofMemory on 2014-08-07 05:23:00 UTC Reply

*tackle glomps* Thanks! Yaaay, stuffs! *grins happily*