Cosmology

Subject: Cosmology
Author: AdmiralSakai
Posted on: 2014-07-28 21:17:00 UTC

I think the difference between those two examples is that a sequel and the original 'fic, while related (which could explain shared Sue memories), are both fanfics of a canon work, while the Cupcakes subfics were themselves fanfics of a fanfic.

Think of it like a family tree, or like the tree data structure. One "root" (canon work) can spawn many "branches" (fanfics) which are connected to it and to some degree draw their reality from it.
A prequel and a sequel are "neighbors", but they are connected to each other through the canon source, so you can cut off one branch without affecting the other.
The spinoffs of Cupcakes, however, are all themselves branches of another branch, Cupcakes itself. Destroy that branch, and there's nothing connecting the spinoffs to the MLP canon, so they either disappear entirely or simply can no longer change things in MLP.

Thus, a recruited Sue also loses the branch connecting her both to her badfic and the canon it is itself connected to, but since she has someplace else to go and form a new attachment to, she doesn't disappear.

One thing I like about this tree model is that it fits well with the established PPC idea of quality being a sort of energy that fics need in order to stabilize and become real. Badfic is too poor in quality to exist on its own, so it needs to leech reality from canon through its branch connection, and if that connection is destroyed it ceases to be real. But a goodfic set in the premise of a badfic has enough native quality to continue existing even if it is cut off.

Reply Return to messages

Jump to this post's position in the thread ↴

About multiple offenses by zdimensia on 2014-07-28 19:10:00 UTC Reply

I just finished reading this one, and I really like how she handled the Sue remembering last time. http://ppc.timescale.nl/03voyagers.html

I have a question about what happens when a recruited character has a second offense. Do they forget about their time at the PPC for the length of the fic? Do they remember, but can't do anything about it? Will they have to go through anti-Sue therapy again? Or is a case that they disapear from Headquarters immediately and the agents have to chase them into the new badfic?

Re: About multiple offenses by zdimensia on 2014-07-28 23:44:00 UTC Reply

I started poking around JulyFlame's stuff and it turns out that both of them are staying on as agents.

There is something called Deparment of Multiple offenses, but they don't seem to do anything special.

Now I need to decide if she manages to escape the first time, the second one is allowed to die, the first one ends up dying first, one ends up getting sent somewhere, or if I really want to have them both in Headquarters.

JulyFlame's stuff by zdimensia on 2014-07-29 00:04:00 UTC Reply

Does anyone have Mission Eight: "Legend of Zelda Love Story OCCx?" The link is bad.

I think they "fork". by AdmiralSakai on 2014-07-28 19:24:00 UTC Reply

The one in Headquarters stays there, and a new Sue appears in the 'fic.

I'm basing this off of a system a friend of mine developed for a ttRPG that had heavy time travel elements. There existed areas not fully cotemporal with any other timeline (much like Headquarters) that would not be affected if history was altered, which we called causally protected zones. A person (or any object, really) could enter the CP-zone from their timeline, have that timeline changed so that they never got that far, and then exit the zone to exist alongside the other version, a process we called causal orphaning since it created objects with no apparent origin point. From the altered timeline's perspective, CP-zones became essentially a source from which things that might have been, but did not, would occasionally manifest.

In which I stay on topic... for half the post. by Anonymouse on 2014-07-28 20:26:00 UTC Reply

In the mission "Swim" by JulyFlame, July and Library end up sporking a fic that July wrote. It shows July interacting with an author-insert and reveals that despite the PPC regarding the July and the author-insert as the same person, Agent!July and Insert!July forked when the fic was written, Insert!July not experiencing anything that Agent!July did after that point- kinda like a Horcrux from Harry Potter. This would support AdmiralSakai's theory.

However, in "Snapback" by WarriorJoe (which happens to be the story that brought me to the PPC), the character Fritz tells us that because they killed Replacement!Pinkie Pie (known outside of the PPC as Pinkamena), all of the spinoff endings and alternate versions of the fic won't be able to affect the MLP:FIM universe anymore.

I'm not entirely sure, but that may also include sequel fics- which would mean that the second fic can't even be sporked.

Which, by the way, is unfair. People will sometimes read a badfic, and make their fic an AU where the premise is that any out-of-character moments and character replacements from the badfic are "canon" in their story.

I should know. I did it about a year ago, here's the fi-
*reads own fic*
...No. No, that isn't the ending I remember, she doesn't even kill Pinkamena...

...Well, shit. Looks like I dug up a fic that I remember finishing one way and actually finished a different way that makes my protagonist a replacement Sue. Dammit.

Here's the fic. "Sugar Free" by ThePoketrix.

Perhaps I'll rewrite it as my permission request sample...

Cosmology by AdmiralSakai on 2014-07-28 21:17:00 UTC Reply

I think the difference between those two examples is that a sequel and the original 'fic, while related (which could explain shared Sue memories), are both fanfics of a canon work, while the Cupcakes subfics were themselves fanfics of a fanfic.

Think of it like a family tree, or like the tree data structure. One "root" (canon work) can spawn many "branches" (fanfics) which are connected to it and to some degree draw their reality from it.
A prequel and a sequel are "neighbors", but they are connected to each other through the canon source, so you can cut off one branch without affecting the other.
The spinoffs of Cupcakes, however, are all themselves branches of another branch, Cupcakes itself. Destroy that branch, and there's nothing connecting the spinoffs to the MLP canon, so they either disappear entirely or simply can no longer change things in MLP.

Thus, a recruited Sue also loses the branch connecting her both to her badfic and the canon it is itself connected to, but since she has someplace else to go and form a new attachment to, she doesn't disappear.

One thing I like about this tree model is that it fits well with the established PPC idea of quality being a sort of energy that fics need in order to stabilize and become real. Badfic is too poor in quality to exist on its own, so it needs to leech reality from canon through its branch connection, and if that connection is destroyed it ceases to be real. But a goodfic set in the premise of a badfic has enough native quality to continue existing even if it is cut off.

Thanks for the clarification. Also, Alternate Universes? by Anonymouse on 2014-07-28 22:36:00 UTC Reply

I was going to continue my rebuttal that such fanfics would also warrant concrit and such, but then I realized that the PPC is doing this to protect a canon, and it wouldn't make sense at all for them to protect a canon after they just destroyed it to protect another canon.

However, that doesn't explain AUs, or Alternate Universes. For instance, say I was browsing in the Pony Pit (my just-made-up name for FIMFiction.net, because the url itself presents it as an MLP version of the Pit, aka fanfiction.net) and came across a fic that seems interesting.

I read it, and it shows Twilight getting old and dying. Except if you pay close attention, there's no wings and the fic refers to her as a unicorn. Normally that'd be a charge because she'd be an alicorn at that point, but if you read the description, it was written before "Magical Mystery Cure"- the episode where Twilight becomes an alicorn- aired. No biggie, it's fine. The thing is, a few chapters later, it mentions, say, Fluttershy being a vampire, something that does make sense in canon- but only if you count the episode "Bats!", where Fluttershy does, indeed, become a vampire. The problem is, "Bats!" aired AFTER "Magical Mystery Cure". The question remains, should it be a charge- as it would've been before "Bats!" aired- or not?

Or let's say we have a fic where the author knows and intends to conflict with canon, since his story's premise includes it- i.e., "What would happen if Nightmare Moon actually won?"- and puts an Alternate Universe tag on it. But it turns out that it's a badfic, with a ton of grammatical errors and even a Mary Sue. Would the PPC still be able to spork the fic, since it is clearly severing itself from canon already?

There's actually a department for it: by Ailavyn Siniyash on 2014-07-29 02:42:00 UTC Reply

http://ppc.wikia.com/wiki/DepartmentofImprobable_AUs
Re: Thanks for the clarification. Also, Alternate Universes? by AdmiralSakai on 2014-07-29 00:36:00 UTC Reply

To answer your first question:
Generally, I would consider happenings "outdated" by later canon developments to not be chargeable- how were they supposed to have known, they did the best they could regardless, etc., and it seems like the majority of people here follow that same standard. But a situation like you describe could indicate that something timesquiggly or otherwise chargeable is afoot: I remember one Halo fanfic had Sgt. Johnson, Miranda Keyes, 343 Guilty Spark, and Cortana all still alive, when they all died in Halo 3. I wasn't going to charge for it since the 'fic came out in 07 and I wasn't going to hold an author to changing nearly all of their 'fic to accommodate a game they may not even own yet, but then he mentioned East Africa being glassed... which happened in Halo 3. In your particular case, if the battification of Fluttershy is very similar to what actually happened in the show and the 'fic came out after, I'd consider Twilight's winglessness a charge, albeit a minor one.

To answer your second question, bad AUs are definitely sporkable. Changing things from canon is not itself a charge, but it can be if the changes result in stupid or contrived things happening, like Nightmare Moon's victory turning Spike gay. You can also charge a 'fic for needlessly following canon events (i.e. lazy plot-making where they just use the canon story) when the changed premise removes the reasons those events canonically occurred (for instance, still having the Galactic Empire take over when the whole premise of your fic is that Chancellor Palpetine was never born).

Re: Thanks for the clarification. Also, Alternate Universes? by Anonymouse on 2014-07-29 01:32:00 UTC Reply

Thank you for the clarification, Admiral. *salute*

Re: Thanks for the clarification. Also, Alternate Universes? by zdimensia on 2014-07-28 23:12:00 UTC Reply

AU's are not immune from being sporked. I do think that you need to take the AU into account, but changing one thing and not thinking of the consequences is chargable.

For Fluttershy being a vampire, either they were uploading slowly and didn't retcon Twilight, or they got lucky by naming something that did eventually happen.

And yes. I'm ThePoketrix. by Anonymouse on 2014-07-28 20:29:00 UTC Reply

I said in my reintro thread that I returned with a different name, didn't I?

I think so, yes. (nm) by AdmiralSakai on 2014-07-28 21:17:00 UTC Reply