Subject: RE: beta reading
Author:
Posted on: 2014-06-22 00:11:00 UTC
Sounds good to me. What about sharing a Google Doc with the person who volunteers to beta-read? That works great for people who use that service a lot (like me or Herr Wozzeck) and have Gmail/permission
Now and then a newbie posts a link to their first mission report and asks for beta readers. This happened at least twice since I joined the board last year.
I intend to add the following to the wiki’s beta reader page:
Since it is only visible for a limited time and nobody ever looks further down the board, you will not get many readers through a link on the board, but this is considered to be publishing nonetheless. You probably don’t want to be humiliated by having all your failures discussed in public, and for some beta readers it may be difficult to be honest when they know that everybody can see what they only want to say to you. Thus, do not link to your story when you ask for beta readers, but give the boarders enough information so that they can decide whether they are able and interested to beta read this.
Potential beta readers will respond to this request, telling you their e-Mail address or other ways of private communication. (Don’t ask me. I’m old and not aware of recent developments in communications technology.)
You then contact the selected beta reader(s), providing them with an address to send their feedback to. If you have a shareable document, you can just send them the link. (There is also the old-fashioned method to send commented and edited versions of the document to and fro.) You may want to enable commenting for everybody who can see your shareable document (who, at this time, are only your beta readers). Thus, rather than sending you long e-mails quoting the document to point you to where their comments apply, your beta readers can attach comments to selected parts of your document, and you can answer to the comments if further discussion is necessary. When the last cycle of beta reading, commenting and editing is finished, you can hide/remove all comments, disable commenting and then proceed to posting your mission report.
There is also a way to get the attention of potential beta readers who do not check the board every other day: look their e-mail address up on the wiki’s list of beta readers or on the beta readers category. (These are also the places to go if somebody responds to your beta request on the board, but assumes that you already know their e-mail address or can easily find it on the wiki.)
You may not be comfortable with e-mailing a stranger out of the blue, but since they put their address on the list or on their user page just for this purpose, we may assume that they are not uncomfortable with this. But be prepared to be rejected or never get a response at all; there is a lot of outdated information nobody dares to remove because there is still a chance that an inactive boarder may return. Try to contact persons who fit your requirements (e.g. know the continuum) and who you have seen at least occasionally on the board not too long ago.
Since I’m not an experienced writer or beta reader myself: what did I get wrong?
Any objections?
Any suggestions how the existing text on this page should be changed to fit this in? My take on this: switch the last two paragraphs of the existing text; remove the last sentence (“Alternatively, you can contact someone listed in the PPC Beta Reader Directory”); add the new paragraphs at the end.
Also, I think there should be a link to the beta reader page in the Mission Writing Guide, probably in or close to the sub-division “Where should I post my completed missions?”, and also near the top of Posting New Mission Reports.
HG
Keep most of the existing article as an introduction, but swap the last two paragraphs and remove “—just post a beta request on the Board“ and “Alternatively, you can contact someone listed in the PPC Beta Reader Directory.”
Then append two new sections (pending Neshomeh’s permission for the second):
How to find beta readers
Just post a beta request on the Board. But consider: Since it is only visible ...
(Text from the original post, clarifying “a shareable document (e.g. Google Doc)”, up to
“on the board not too long ago.”)
How to be a beta reader (Neshomeh’s advice)
(Insert text from Neshomeh’s response, from “Beta-reading really only requires” up to
“it's not your fault.”)
HG
Sounds good to me. What about sharing a Google Doc with the person who volunteers to beta-read? That works great for people who use that service a lot (like me or Herr Wozzeck) and have Gmail/permission
I’m not very aware of these technologies and didn’t want to limit it to Google, in case there are others. But in case somebody is even less aware than I am, maybe it should say "a shareable document (e.g. Google Doc)"?
HG
Seconding what VM said; I think it's definitely a good idea to put this idea forward more. I think your proposed text is a little cumbersome, and it'll need a clearer bridge to get from "we offer beta services" to "posting a link on the Board is considered publishing," but unfortunately I can't help with that right now. I'm checking in from a hotel room, and I'm going to be signing off and going to bed pretty soon.
I also think it would be a good idea to educate people on how to be good beta-readers (i.e., reading it once, pointing out the most obvious SPaG errors, and saying "good job!" doesn't quite cut it). There was a seminar for betas proposed at one point, but unfortunately it never happened due to time constraints and people leaving. I'm not sure how many of the people who were involved in that are still around, or who still has the time and interest.
~Neshomeh
I've been been mulling over the next subject to cover in my Board workshops. How to be a good beta was one of the top contenders.
Expect to see a relevant post on the subject soon...
I look forward to that. {= )
Would you be interested in seeing the outline we came up with two years ago? It's for a longer work than what your workshops have been, but maybe it'll suggest some ideas.
~Neshomeh
Every little bit helps.
Right now I really want to help Tigeress with her first mission, but I’m not quite sure how to do it.
Yeah, the transition is awful, that’s why I asked for suggestions. The text was originally addressed to Tigeress, but then it occurred to me that it should really be on the wiki. Well, I will let this simmering some more days before I actually go to change the page.
HG
Unfortunately, it looks like I'm actually the only person from that group who's still noticeably active. I might be able to get it going again, but I dunno.
Anyway. Beta-reading really only requires that you have eyes (or an extremely good screen-reader, I guess), that you're good at recognizing what's actually on the page rather than what your brain thinks ought to be there, and that you're not afraid to offer clear (but polite) critiques. (My fatal flaw as a beta... okay, the first one is procrastination, but my other fatal flaw is a tendency to ask rhetorical questions when I should just say "this part was confusing because XYZ; here's how it could be improved.") Explaining the problem clearly is very important, as is being able to suggest a solution whenever possible. Sometimes you won't be able to put your finger on it, though, and saying "I don't know, it just feels off" is okay. Being able to notice and compliment things that were done well is also useful, and unfortunately, few of us have that skill. We should all strive to improve our skill at giving positive feedback.
One important rule that I learned from my editorial internship is that you never give a "correction" based on your personal style preferences; you should always have a sound, objective reason for making a correction. I refer to the Chicago Manual of Style as my ultimate authority, since that's what I was taught, but most style guides agree on most things that come up in fiction; they only differ greatly when it comes to citations, which aren't an issue here. You'll definitely run across differences in British vs. American vs. Canadian vs. Australian usage (and more, no doubt), so learning to spot those is important. You'll pick it up as you go, but when in doubt, always consult a reliable source. (I've occasionally found good style guides for different parts of the world on university websites.) Also, always doubt. If you can't suspect yourself of being ignorant or mistaken, you can't learn, and you can't help anyone else learn.
As a writer, when I'm looking for feedback, I always want to know how my writing is affecting the reader--did the funny parts make you laugh? did the sad parts make you cry? when the agents got hurt, did you worry about them? etc.
As a beta, though, I typically can't focus on that sort of thing until the SPaG and other distracting mechanical issues get cleaned up. That means I need at least two read-throughs to do my best job, one to proofread, the other to edit for broader issues like characterization, pacing, consistency, etc. If I find myself reading for content without getting distracted the first time through, that's a compliment to the author's technical prowess.
Sometimes the writer won't agree with your suggestions on the broader issues (and they should always be suggestions; see above note about personal preference vs. actual rules). This is okay. The beta is never responsible for the final form of a story. It's up to the writer to participate actively in the process of making their story as good as possible. They can and should pester you for explanations if they don't understand, or for feedback on a particular topic if you're not giving it. If they take a back seat and blindly do everything you say without understanding it, or if they argue and/or blow you off and do whatever they want even if you were right, there's nothing you can do about it and it's not your fault.
You probably already knew or suspected a lot of that, but I hope I've said some things that help. I'll keep finishing the full workshop on my radar, but I can't promise it'll happen anytime soon.
~Neshomeh
It may be too subjective for a proper wiki article, but I think it will help others as much as it helps me, and it can be tweaked to fit the wiki style later, when you find the time.
Yes, I guessed much of this. I wouldn’t have thought of consulting style guides (wow, that’s professional). What bothered me most was: I obviously shouldn’t try to write the authors story, but how far can I go with suggestions, or should I only point out the problems? I also wonder whether too much feedback may be a bit overwhelming and may scare newbies who didn’t expect that this would become so professional so fast.
HG
That will be in a more formal style, more suitable for adapting to a wiki article. Or, there'll be the option of simply linking to it from the article.
Hm, I didn't mean to come off overly professional, or to suggest that a beta needs to be like a professional editor. I say "check a style guide" for grammar/punctuation/regional usage in the same way I would say "check a dictionary" for spelling and definition, just to make sure you've got it right before you tell someone else what to do. {= )
I think the amount and type of feedback the writer can take is something you should discuss with them before you begin. I should've mentioned, discussing expectations with the writer is something that should always happen before you start. Some people need and respond well to really blunt corrections, others need gentler handling. Sometimes they're okay with you simply making corrections, other times they'll want you to make a note of everything so they can make the changes themselves. If they think they may be overwhelmed with lots of corrections/suggestions, you might want to take the process in stages—maybe divide the story up into chunks of a few pages each, or do different types of feedback in different sessions. Whatever works.
I'm not sure how to answer you with regard to how far to go with suggestions. I can't think of too many situations in which I'd personally make a suggestion if there weren't a problem at the root of it. Maybe you're thinking of a situation where what the author has is good, but you think it could be great with some changes? In that case, I'd say tell them if you can explain the whys and hows of it, but of course they may not agree with you. For instance, IIRC, the betas for "Ring Child" didn't think we needed the end sequence in FicPsych, but Tungsten and I decided to keep it for long-term character development reasons. Still, I know I'd want to hear about it if my beta thought my story could go from good to great. {= )
~Neshomeh
Since we encourage beta reads so heavily, it would make sense to have more guidance for people to find beta readers before they put their story on the 'Board.