Subject: Re: SEP fields don't work at all with Sues.
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Posted on: 2014-06-12 20:51:00 UTC
Ah, there is a problem, then. There is no place to hide, an Insert would know they're not supposed to be there, and a plain Sue would point them out and ask if they're part of the acceptable causalities.
Can Sues be neuralyzed?
Are the SEP field generators powerful enough to allow the agents to very quietly stand against a wall when in the same room as a Sue? How is that sort of thing usually handled? Is there a problem when an unforeseen scene change forces them into a room with nowhere to hide?
And this is something more that I've decided. There is a fanon error that is so widespread that making it isn't a charge. There's no point since it's so pervasive that it's obvious that it already destroyed the understanding of canon.
I'm mostly finding information on the Despatch page. http://ppc.wikia.com/wiki/Despatch
It looks like all Inserts that look like Self-Inserts are treated as real people and either taken or referred to legal for further action.
It looks like the Fern wouldn't be the judge of a full trial, more likely just reviewing the evidence after his staff interviews the accused, (if he gets involved at all.)
Basically I want to write the legal consultation as the recruitment, since it would make a more interesting story than her going out-of-character and telling her partner. (Her partner's story is boring.)
Even if it stays behind-the-black, PPC would have a file on the author's real self-insert/avatar as proof that the recruit is a fictional-insert.
I read intelligence's page, indicating that fics are sorted and then the iffy ones are checked by spies before being forwarded to departments. Is there a department, person, or flower that decides whose console it goes to and when?
Or is it like the internet? Basically the mission report goes to all consoles, and the one tied to a suitable team "claims" it.
Is there a such thing as missions being shoved backward in the queue because the most suitable agent is wounded, so their partner gets a temp and missions that they could handle? Is there even a database that is aware of such things?
Is there someone who can be bribed, either to keep a particular intel-report in the shuffle for a bit longer, or to put something through as a mission before checking to see if it's really a badfic?
Do floaters make copies of their mission reports for the departments that would have normally handled it if they had the staff?
Or is contacting other departments only for when something goes so wrong that they need a little help?
How are modern AU's handled? Basically taking someone from a medieval or fantastical story and portraying them as always living in our world, half the time they end up in High School. Like the setting of Equestria Girls.
Is there one department that happens to handle them more often than not? Should there be a department devoted to handling those?
Is there a procedure for songfic, or are those usually just meh?
Department of Improbable AUs
It's a small department, but PoorCynic has done a fair bit of work on it in recent years.
As for songfic, I'm not sure. I'm drawing a blank on particular examples of songfic missions right now. I wanna say TOS and Trojanhorse at least mentioned dealing with them, but I'm not sure. I'll let you know if I think of any specifics. {= /
~Neshomeh
I know that I planned to mission a Lord of the Rings songfic as a normal Floaters mission, but how standard or accepted this is - I have no idea.
The very last mission, "No Way Back," deals with a songfic. Basically, the songs play annoyingly in the background the whole time and are nearly impossible to drown out. Sorta like being inside a music video.
I'm sure there have been others, though; I just can't pinpoint them.
~Neshomeh
I'm thinking of having the AV department foisting material onto one of my agents or both in the team.
Would this be at all normal, or considered selective interference possibly arranged by a Flower? (Basically expanding the knowledge base of an agent pair whose known cannons are not that prolific.)
I think I've seen agents volunteering to learn new canons. Perhaps there is a recommendation list?
I've always considered "Here, study these top-most-popular canons" to be part of basic training. LotR and Harry Potter are always wise to know.
Alternatively, since basic training is spotty at best, the agents could look things up for themselves in the Canon Library, or their partner could force them to do it.
Second alternative: the team can call in someone who knows the continuum from Floaters or the APD (or anywhere, really).
Third alternative: there's the Pocket Fictionary, but it's pretty terrible. Therefore, it's a great choice if you want to torture your characters with infuriatingly condescending technology. *g*
~Neshomeh
It seems a little bit of a waste to have more than a few agents be knowledgeable about the same canon, but yeah it depends on how heavy the workload is.
But having to use the device even once will probably get my agents more than happy to learn more.
On an off-topic note, the Canon Bomb is exactly what I'm looking for. (Geographical anomaly in a world made entirely of candy, do not want flamethrowers.)
Basically I'm planning for this to be an interlude thing unless I learn new shows. The vampiress didn't know about Twilight before being recruited, (off-gag, I don't intend to know Twilight enough if I can help it,) and the animation and anime fan wouldn't know "girly" shows unless they were foisted on him.
That's exactly what disguises are for. SEP Field works wonders with canon characters - unless the Agents do something big to attract their attention it's like they aren't even there to canons - but Sues would see them right away in the situation you described.
However, the Sue usually wouldn't mind if they have a disguise that would reasonably be there - like Generic Students in a classroom.
Ah, there is a problem, then. There is no place to hide, an Insert would know they're not supposed to be there, and a plain Sue would point them out and ask if they're part of the acceptable causalities.
Can Sues be neuralyzed?
How detailed is the description of the surroundings in the fic you are talking about?
There have been a few times when agents encountered a similar situation and used the instability of a poorly described or extremely generic setting to be able to manipulate the environment to create a hiding place.
The first place I saw it happen was in an Indemaat story, but I don't remember exactly which one. It may have been in her story thread about one agent thinking the other was a Sue, because the agent was doing it a lot, showing off, kind of, among other things.
Agent Kaliel/Maeryn used it when the story took place entirely inside a cell that had no description other than 'cell' and someone opening and closing a door occasionally. She created a space like a duck blind that the agents could watch the fic through.
This is from a mission that will probably never get finished and see the light of day.
“If the environment is sufficiently poorly described, you can describe it and make things that could reasonably be in the scene appear. It’s something that agents should not abuse, but sometimes there is no other way to avoid being seen when you find yourself in an empty box of a room like this--"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1JjBFfBk8I&list=PLED4D06D0CE48C728&index=3
Okay, maybe I don't have a clear picture, since there are columns that might have space to wedge behind.
Neither of the fics that insert into this scene really spend more than one line on the room, and rely on previous knowledge to fill the gap.
My vampire agent does have some clumsy illusion powers if the board doesn't have a problem with me declaring so, (no canonical excuse except that she's supposed to have a unique vampiric gift,) but she would specifically be writhing in pain and powerless whenever she is in that particular scene.
Nobody's ever tried to neuralyze a Sue, though, so I don't know how it would work. Oldbies, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone's ever neuralyzed a Sue.
The bigger question would be this: why would the agents want to neuralyze the Sue in the first place?
I seem to remember something where the Sue somewhat noticed the agents, but the story sorta closed around the outburst and continued when they were out of sight. I think it was a LOTR Elrond Counsel with four agents, not that it narrows it down much. (Lux was there?)
Basically if the agents somehow get dragged into a room with noplace to hide due to a scene change. This being before they are ready to grab the Sue.
Jay and Acacia actually had more than one Close Sue Encounters. One of them involved distracting her with sock puppets.
But, I think the basic idea is that most Sues/SIs are too wrapped up in their own story to care about anything else as long as it's not directly interfering. Given the opportunity, they'll ignore the agents in order to get back to seducing Legolas or whatever. And actually, I have to disagree with everyone else so far: the SEP does work on Sues, but only to the extent that the agents can keep themselves under control and make themselves seem not to be the Sue's problem. The canon itself cloaks the agents from the canon characters, and the original point of the disguise was to look like something that would canonically kill whatever the Sue is.
That aside, the answer as far as story-telling goes is to solve the problem as creatively as possible, or else write the mission in such a way as to avoid it. If you want to put your agents in a situation where they're in trouble and have to cry, kick, or kiss their way out of it (to mildly mis-apply a quote), awesome! If you're just gonna hit the reset button on the Sue and have things continue without a hitch, you might as well just not put them in the situation to begin with.
One way you could potentially solve your problem of the empty room: The scene is so non-descript that the agents temporarily lose all description themselves. They blend in with the background, effectively gaining active camo. Later, when it's safe, they'll have to work out how to get their proper appearances back.
You always have a choice about how to interpret the badfic. It's important to represent its flaws accurately, but you don't have to take it at its word if it's being silly.
~Neshomeh
Having the agents lose description sounds like an amazingly fun idea!
Basically, for two of the fics that are inserted into that scene...
One has the Insert being so busy drooling over the main character that the agents could probably pickpocket her. The other has the Sue busy gasping for air.
Just assuming that the SEP field is powerful enough to conceal someone who is trying to be a fly on the wall is the most interesting thing I can do, otherwise I will have fics where at least one agent is an actual fly or something background like a songbird.