Another non-PG opinion

Subject: Another non-PG opinion
Author: Pippa's Ghost
Posted on: 2014-06-12 14:33:00 UTC

You're still presenting a big, complex mass of many agents, backstories, and inter-relationships all at once, to overwhelm the PGs. Probably not a good idea.

(And, it also has the side effect of looking like all the really exciting, interesting events in their PPC careers have already happened in the backstories, so whatever happens in the main stories could be an anticlimax compared to that!)

I've said it before, but IMHO it might be better if you started with just Wells and Plank. Over the course of writing their missions and stories, you introduce the other characters gradually, and allow us to see Plank's steady decline into madness taking place before our own eyes. Seeing things happen over several stories would also help us understand some of the more puzzling things about the backstory, such as:

Exactly how did Wells get superhuman speed on a South Park mission? Did it come from the temporal distortion she fell into? (i.e. When she runs, time flows differently for her, or something like that?) Or was that a different mission?

How could Plank join at the same time as Makes-Things? Makes-Things was the very first human ever to join, and IIRC the next two were female LARPers who became assassins. Even if Plank was the fourth human to join and this is a case of "Remember the New Guy", as that TV Tropes page points out: "More than one Mary Sue is introduced this way in fanfiction." Not something that's going to be too popular here!

Talking of Plank, what is he officially supposed to be doing now? He's been "relieved of his Duty in the DMS" and is unofficially working for Experimentation and Research, but what do the Flowers think he's doing? And why isn't anyone from DIA keeping an eye on him after all the trouble he's been in?

Having said that, I still love the characters of Ellis, Bessie, and Wells, despite their very confusing backstories. I hope you do get permission to write them someday.

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Permission Request- Trying Again by Dark Brother 16 on 2014-06-11 04:26:00 UTC Reply

Do I have things right the third time? Let's see. It's been just under three weeks since last time, but I think I have addressed the major problems I had before.

So, here are my agents. Again.

Agent #1)

Name: Spencer Ellis

Species: Human

Age: 32

Appearance:
- Eye color: Sky blue
- Hair: Light brown, short and combed
- Height: Average
Additional Features:
- He is rather fat, but not morbidly obese

Department: Department of Mary Sues, Freelance Division

Personality: He is highly focused on academics, has greater need for dominance, leadership and attention than is usual, and he prefers initiating activity. He is very detail oriented, and can therefore catch things about someone's personality that others wouldn't based on small bits of evidence. He can learn very quickly, and he feels uncomfortable without a detailed plan laid out. He therefore is strongly agitated whenever someone doesn't follow the plan. Likewise, he becomes irritated whenever someone does something without telling him first. He holds the emotional needs of others in very low consequence, and is therefore not generally liked among the other, rather mentally unstable Agents he frequently comes into contact with. In addition, he has a dark side to him that could result in him becoming violent, especially when he is stressed out. That being said, his mental stability is questionable at times of great tribulations when he feels he has very little control over anything. However, he hates losing someone during a mission and will obssess over their overall safety. Lastly, he holds views of reformed Mary Sues that border on racism, constantly blaming Agent Bessie for the team's shortcomings and misfortunes and calling her a Mary Sue.

Backstory: Spencer Ellis and Melvin Moore were both lawyers in Maycomb County, Alabama, alongside their peer, Atticus Finch, in a To Kill a Mockingbird fanfic. Ellis, unlike Atticus, however, was notorious for his predilection toward confrontations and even getting personally involved in one particularly violent arrest (which he does not like to go into great detail of). One particular case in which he served as the prosecutor, the Case of Marietta Crocker, drew the attention of a pair of assassins from the PPC, one of whom was named Plank, who proceeded to kill the Mary Sue, Marietta Crocker, in the county jail.

Fascinated by their methods, Ellis and Moore decided to join the PPC. While Moore decided to apply for a job in the Department of Internal Affairs, Ellis tried out for a position in The Legal Department, but was turned down because he "wasn't what they were looking for".

Dissatisfied with this, Ellis joined various Departments- the Department of Plagiarism and the Department of Technical Errors, to name a few- but was transfered for various reasons, such as the inability to play well with others and attempting to get directly involved in missions he was not given. Mostly, however, he was just badly suited for the jobs he was given. He eventually got a job in the Department of Finance, but deeply hated that he was not "doing his Duty".

He was finally moved once again to the Department of Mary Sues, because it was suspected by the Flowers for which he once worked that he was struggling to control certain homicidal urges which the DMS thrived on.

Agent #2)

Name: A. W. "Bessie" Besserdchenney

Species: Human

Age: 21

Appearance:
- Eye color: Unremarkable Brown
- Hair color: Brown, shoulder length
- Height: A little short for her age

Department: Department of Mary Sues, Freelance Division

Personality: She has a playful wit that she uses to either pull elaborate pranks on people or make fun of them. However, this does not make her intelligent, and she is prone to foolhardy moves in combat. She tries to stick to a "strict code of honor", meaning that she tries not to murder canon characters or Original Characters who are not Mary Sues or Gary Stus. She is unaware that she was a Mary Sue in a previous life, and takes offense whenever someone calls her one. However, it does bother her that people call her one enough to where she has slowly ceased trusting the Flowers, because she thinks that they may know something they are not telling her.

Abilities: A powerhouse duelist, she is not a tactician and will usually go for a frontal assault. That being said, however, she can eventually learn from her mistakes and successes.

Backstory: The character that would come to be known as Bessie originated in a nearly forgotten Shakespeare Suefic. She was captured by PPC agents Plank and Wells, and her story was destroyed because of its mechanics and horrible geography and flora and fauna.

The experiments that Plank performed on her worked, if only in part, and Plank insisted that she be inducted as an Agent, despite various protests from a vocal minority in the PPC that Bessie, as she was now called, was not fully de-Sued.

However, Bessie did become an Agent, and her first job was with the Disturbing Acts of Violence Department, Action Division. She participated in several difficult assignments, and earned some respect from her fellow agents.

However, she was removed from the Department due to her overly violent outbursts resulting from massive consumption of Flaming Balrog after missions. She was sent to the Medical Department, where she had a six week recovery period, and which sent her to the Character Protective Services upon orders from the Flowers, ostensibly because of something she may have said in her drunken stupor.

It was during this time that Bessie became infatuated by various Harry Potter and Twilight characters.

After a distinguished mission in which Bessie saved Sirius Black from a Mary Sue Death Eater, she was transfered, because of her skill at and joy with killing said Mary Sue, to the Department of Mary Sues as an assassin. However, it is also rumored that the Asphodel didn't want to deal with Bessie for some reason.

Agent #3)

Name: Vivian Elsa Wells

Species: Human

Age: 29

Appearance:
- Eye color: Brown
- Hair: Dirty blonde, blown back so that it sticks up
- Height: Average

Department : Department of Mary Sues, Freelance Division

Abilities: Aside from her extensive knowledge of animals, plants, land masses and time paradoxes, Wells possesses a strange ability to run at superhuman speeds, which resulted from a mission into the South Park continuum.

Personality: Vivian Wells is a woman with a manic and unruly personality. She really enjoys physical activities that involve her use of her insane bursts of speed, such as racing people. She also loves junk food, and adores the color pink, unicorns, and throwing parties. She goes into long talks about such activities as cooking, fashion misshaps, the attractiveness of other female Agents, etc. She also likes to go shopping whenever she can, but at the same time she is wise with her money, usually only buying things that she thinks will be useful in some way. She likes to tease people and pull elaborate pranks on them when she knows it won't hurt their feelings too much. She has mastered the puppy face and can sometimes whine and complain when she doesn't get her way. Concerning her extensive knowledge, she has trouble recalling what she knows due in large part to her perpetual adrenaline surge. Whenever something happens to someone she is close to, she gets very worried.

Backstory: Previously a member of the Official Fanfiction University of the Twilight Saga, Vivian Wells joined the PPC as a member of the Department of Floaters. However, she quickly gained a vast career, joining various Departments, such as Geographical Abberations, Misplaced Flora and Fauna, Bad Slash and Temporal Offenses.

Unfortunately, it was during her tenure in the Department of Temporal Offenses that she and a few other agents got caught in a temporal distortion, from which Wells foresaw something that deeply troubled her. This experience traumatized her, causing her to become very concerned whenever someone she is close to gets in danger, and causing her to develop a fear of strobe lights.

She was assisted in her recovery by Agent Plank, who had recently lost his own partner and had seen her records. After this time, she joined Agent Plank on the field, eventually capturing Bessie.

Wells then faced a troubling time in her life. Because of his exposure to a particularly powerful Mary Sue, Bessie, and other factors, Plank began to exhibit some Mary Sue traits. However, instead of the usual effects, it began to drive him insane with obsession and self destructive tendencies.

Agent #4)

Name: Alfred Plank

Species: Human

Age: 59

Appearance:
- Eye color: Grey
- Hair: White and messy
- Height: Slightly above average

Department: Department of Mary Sue Experimentation and Research

Abilities: Aside from being a crack shot with a Phaser and an ambitious inventer, Plank is a veteran agent with a highly developed understanding of Mary Sues and Sue Wraiths.

Personality: He has a scientific curiosity in all things to do with Mary Sues, going beyond normal boundaries and even coming across as obsessive and pushy. He takes risks that most other scientists wouldn't take, such as purposefully ingesting large amounts of glitter on a regular basis to test possible antidotes, even though they mostly make the symptoms worse most of the time, partly because he is going crazy. He considers Mary Sues to be very nearly sentient, but lacking a few crucial personality traits. When he became Sued, his obsession with finding a "proper" cure only intensified.

Backstory: Little is known about his early life, except that he probably came from a Star Trek fanfic. What is known is that he joined at about the same time as Makes-Things. During his training, he began showing an aptitude for using chemical components as weapons. Because of this, he was made an assassin in the Department of Mary Sues.

He went through several partners, all of whom have apparently been killed in action or snapped on the job. It was then that he met Agent Vivian Wells, who he helped recover from a particularly disturbing stint stuck in a temporal distortion, and with whom he began a partnership thereafter.

The partnership was successful, until nearly five years later, when the PPC discovered a badfic that has since been wiped out. The target Mary Sue was captured instead of killed so that Plank could study Mary Sue psychology and learn new ways to alter their minds.

Because of his contact with powerful Mary Sues over the years, his tendency to ingest unsafe amounts of glitter, and his immediately testing his own product, Bleepium, to counteract the effects of the glitter, his already questionable mental stability began to seriously decline. And because of this, he was relieved of his Duty in the DMS.

However, his obsession won out, and he became an unofficial member of the Department of Mary Sue Experimentation and Research. Since then, he has been in a lot of trouble, particularly for when he forged documents that got him his assistants. (It is widely believed that this is what happened, but the evidence supporting this is circumstantial.)

To this day, he strives to find a true cure for Mary Sues.

Control Prompt- Mission Assignment

[BEEEP]

Lights flickered across the flashy little bulbs installed around the console. It was time yet again for a mission. Agent Ellis groaned, slumped out of his scratchy armchair, and began pressing the necessary buttons. I may as well get all the details now so that I can tell Bessie and Wells both at once and save some time.

As he read the report, however, he swore quietly. "Sanfield." That dirtbag!

Ellis finished reading, all the while feeling as if he needed Bleeprin, just by reading the report, and readied himself for giving his orders. He cleared his throat and gave a loud "Bessie! Wells! Front and center!"

But there was no reply.

"BESSIE!!! WELLS!!! FRONT AND CENTER, DADGUMMIT!!!"

There was movement from Bessie ' s side of the RC, followed by some incoherent muttering, and Bessie emerged from her bedroom, bleary eyed and grouchy. "What?"

"We got a mission." Ellis explained. "Where's Wells?"

"Um, Wells?" Bessie rubbed her eyes. "She, uh, went shopping, I think. Or she went to visit Plank. I don't know."

Ellis swore under his breath. "If she ain't here in ten seconds-"

Suddenly, the door burst open and a push of air nearly knocked both agents over. Wells had arrived, and she had several packages tucked under her arms.

"Hey, guys! What's up?" She shook her head, knocking what looked like paint chippings out of her blown-back hair.

"Where were ya?! We have a mission ready."

Wells placed the packages down on the console. "I was visiting Plank."

"Told you." Bessie smirked as she rubbed her eyes.

"Shut up. Wells, I told ya not to go anywhere without tellin' me first. We could get a mission."

"Sure thing, big guy." Wells reached into the smallest package and handed each of her partners an earpiece, putting one in her own ear. "Can you hear me, Plank?"

"That's an affirmative, Miss Wells," replied the German-accented Agent Plank from the other end of the line.

Oh boy. Ellis placed the earpiece into his ear and demanded, "I thought the DIA removed ya from your lab."

"Yes, well, they did," Plank answered awkwardly. "But it is going to take more than even the misguided opinions of the Flowers to keep me from my work!"

Typical Plank. No idea how deluded he is. Oh well, he has his uses. Ellis eyed the packages. "What're those?"

Wells smiled and ripped one open, producing a very large Claymore sword. "Plank wanted to give us an arsenal on hand so that we can easily go into any franchise armed with the appropriate weapons."

"That's right," Plank chimed in. "Why go through all the trouble of visiting the Armory when you have one of your own?"

Bessie scoffed. "We're assassins. We don't need weapons to kill our targets."

"It makes it a lot easier." Ellis pointed out, taking out an M41A Pulse Rifle with an attached U1 Grenade Launcher. "Good thing we got these. 'Cuz guess where we're going."

Random Prompt- One Agent tries to use a Lightsaber without proper training

"Where are we supposed to put all this stuff, anyway?" Ellis ripped open yet another package from Plank, finding it full of various types of grenades.

As Bessie opened a large package nearby, she suggested, "Maybe we can get permission to renovated."

Ellis spluttered. "Pf-yeah, we're gonna have to. Ain't no way we're gonna fit all these weapons in here with all your trophies and Wells' useless junk."

Nearby, sitting beside the console, Wells looked up from her own package with a scowl. "My stuff isn't useless!"

"Yeah? Like the last mission," Ellis recalled, "you packed a beach hat-"

"It was a gardening hat," Wells corrected him, pulling open her package and stacking packs of bullets. "Besides, it was for a Total Drama Island fanfic. It was not outrageously out of place."

Ellis rolled his eyes and got to unpacking yet another parcel.

"What's this?" Bessie began inspecting something from Ellis' package, turning it over in her hand. "Oh, it's a lightsaber!"

"Don't turn that on!" Ellis and Wells both shouted frantically.

But Bessie did so anyway, pointing the bright green blade away from her partners. "I'll be able to do some real devastation with this."

"Put it away before ya break something," Ellis demanded.

"You might hurt yourself, Bessie." Wells' eyes had widened to a size that was normally not possible, save for someone who was about to experience a panic attack. "Only people with years of training can use one of those."

But Bessie was too absorbed by her new found weapon. "How hard could it be? I won't hurt myself." And with that, she began swinging it around precariously.

SWUNG-SSHHH!!!

"GET THE DOCTORS!!!" Ellis bellowed.

Here is a link to the badfic I want to start with. https://m.fanfiction.net/s/7398957/1/The_Siren

Crossing my fingers.

Okay, an actual response. by VixenMage on 2014-06-13 08:41:00 UTC Reply

Having reread your request, reread your other requests, and seen your response to Phobos, I would have to say my call on this is denied. Again - this isn't permanent, but I highly recommend you put this on hold for a while - longer than a few weeks - while you do some more reading and work on your writing, especially humor. hS pointed this out before, and it holds true; the most important thing about most missions is the humorous aspect. Most of what we write is satire, and that takes something of a deft touch, and it doesn't really come automatically to anyone.

Other than that, though, the issue is compounded by what appears to be a somewhat disingenuous move on your part. You were told - multiple times, IIRC - that Emergencies were discouraged and you should go for Agents without the big alternate-universe subplot. You resubmitted your agents twice, but now it looks like rather than decide to revamp the idea, you just, as Phobos has pointed out, threw a blanket over the parts that didn't jibe with a normal permission request. I hate to say it, but that says to me that you care more about getting your plot written than you do about being honest with the community about your intentions, and that worries me a lot. The whole reason the skepticism and issues with Emergencies came about was because people took big, game-changing ideas and ran with them without consulting the community who'd be effected.

I don't want to discourage you from writing these agents, or from writing for the PPC. But I do want to express how strongly I feel about the fact that you presented this in a different way than the direction in which your actual intentions lie. The thing is - again, as has been pointed out - there's nothing inherently wrong with Big Ideas! I really like the idea of doing something different! But... again, what you've got going on here is up several difficulty levels, and between that, and your writing sample (inconsistent dialogue, some clunky writing, some lack of humor, some ...off character interactions: despite now knowing where they came from, they still come off as a bit awkward), and the background, I'm going to have to say no this time around.

Aww by Dark Brother 16 on 2014-06-13 12:38:00 UTC Reply

Missed the mark once again, huh? That's fine. I understand. I found one more way not to get permission, which is useful.

How long would you recommend I wait, by the way?

I wasn't being honest? I beg to differ. The ideas for my villains and their plans aren't entirely refined yet, and I didn't want to submit anything other than my agents, who I thought were ready and finished. I was never trying to be dishonest.

I'm not mad or insulted or anything, just saying.

I understand that with the Emergencies. So, for the sake of bouncing ideas off of people, how small would it have to be for an "Emergency" to be considered not of much importance? Would it have to be contained to one room? I'd obviously have to use my own agents, and pretty much limit it to them. Maybe if I limit the invasion to their Response Center? What are your thoughts? How could I still use the idea without making a community wide event?

I appreciate your input. I appreciate everyone's input, even if I am disappointed with the results. But, if it's not ready, it's not ready, so...

Re. Emergencies, large or small. by Neshomeh on 2014-06-13 15:36:00 UTC Reply

The appropriate size of an emergency for someone who is just starting out is don't try. The people who have pulled off events like that in the past have all been people who were around for a good while and had written plenty of other PPC stuff first—and even then, when Tawaki did it (and kept doing it), that resulted in a fair number of people being rather unhappy with him. Even some of hS's big ideas flopped. As VM pointed out, this sort of thing is difficult to pull off well, even for experienced PPCers, which you are not yet.

And you don't need to pull it off. The thing that's been most bothering me about all this is your inability to let go of this notion that you need to write something big and epic for your characters, even if you leave the rest of HQ out of it. It's like this:

The PPC Network is looking for a small-budget TV series. We can afford kick-ass writers and a few actors, and we've got connections, so maybe we can bring in a special guest star now and then; and we've got a studio and some solid costumes and practical effects that have held up over previous runs. You are trying to pitch the plot of a big-screen summer blockbuster with action and drama and sub-plots and special effects and CGI set pieces and a bunch of extras. No matter how many times you say "Well, okay, but what if instead of ten CGI set pieces, five explosions, and a thousand extras it's just seven CGI set pieces, two explosions, and a hundred extras? Would that be okay?", it's still not in the budget. Now, if your show is successful, then maybe we'll be able to afford Dark Brother's Spin-off: The Movie one day, but it is not this day. The appropriate thing to do is put the movie script in mothballs and focus on making a great TV show. If the show runs without a hitch for a season or two, then maybe you can try pitching the movie again; but if we keep smelling whiffs of big-budget explode-o-drama on your show script, it's not gonna get approved. We cannot afford it. Period.

... So, if you're still with me after that, what I want to say is this: I think you've got potential. Your latest request is a lot better than the previous ones, and you're clearly capable of taking feedback and learning from it, which is fantastic. You also seem like a nice guy, which helps a lot. What's holding you back is stubbornly clinging to this invasion idea. What we don't want is to give you Permission and then have to watch your every move to make sure you don't do something we'll regret. Let it go, let Permission go for a good while (I dunno, the ol' "one month" ruler maybe?), go some time without feeling the need to inquire about previous emergencies, invasions, etc.; let us see you focusing on other things. That's what we really want. Maybe write some short non-PPC fics to practice. But do anything, really, as long as it's miles from emergency-resurrected-Sue-invading-kersplosion, just so we know you can do other things.

~Neshomeh

My two cents (and personal experience) on emergencies. by Sergio Turbo on 2014-06-14 15:18:00 UTC Reply

Multi-Boarder Emergencies are something big that requires special conditions to begin. In fact, after the post-Tawaki period there was only one big one - the Blackout - and even then it was something born "on" the board instead of someone coming up with it. (Basically, all started from that year's April Fools board joke.)

Single-boarder Emergencies are... well, I'd say that the only one I've seen so far is my own, so I hope Dark Brother didn't misunderstand due to it and thinks that's normal happening. It isn't.

It's a first that I'm "trying out" after being here for quite a bit (for years now), and that's supposed to wrap up the backstories of my Agents. Using Neshomeh's example, Blank Sprite is the "Sergio Turbo's Spinoff: The Movie" acting as a grand finale to "Sergio Turbo's Spinoff".

Oh, and I started working on it not only after my Agents were already "settled" as characters, but I also spent more than a year working on the concept before starting to write it. And yet, I'm not sure it will even work in the end.
Emergencies are a big thing. Don't underestimate them.
I see by Dark Brother 16 on 2014-06-13 15:53:00 UTC Reply

Okay, I guess. It's just the way I am, I guess. I'm an ambitious person.

I think I understand. Therefore, I'll tweak the idea so that it only affects my agents. Maybe they get ambushed on a mission. I'll make the necessary changes and stuff. I would really like to pull this off, eventually, even if it's nothing like what I originally planned. And that's what concrit's all about, right? To help ideas evolve so that they fit the picture and what not?

One month. Okay, got it.

Can I make a suggestion? by Huinesoron on 2014-06-13 16:11:00 UTC Reply

Actually, it's remake - it's been suggested to you several times already:

Start with two agents. In fact, let me solidify that: start with Ellis and Wells. Give them a Response Centre. Work up current bios for them. And then ask for Permission, just for them, with the intent of writing missions with them.

At least three missions. Just... PPC missions, the things we do here. Agents, badfic, spork.

Because part of the problem you're facing is that right now, no-one cares about your characters. How could we? We don't know them. They're just names and bios. So putting them in situations of dire peril is... 'well, okay, but which one's which again?'.

Start with missions. Start with a mission. In fact, since you're clearly willing to write lots and lots of words in order to get Permission: write a mission.

Seriously. In accordance with this proposal of mine (which, huh, was on your last request), write a full-length PerMission. Show us Ellis and Wells before Bessie was transferred from the DCPS to join them. Show us what an actual PPC mission will look like with your two most normal agents. Show us that you can focus on sporking a badfic, not the big events you keep trying to plan.

And when you're done, get it beta'd, and ask for Permission with your PerMission as your sole piece of content. I promise here and now that I will personally read it, concrit it, and decide what PGs are supposed to be here to decide: whether you are capable of writing PPC missions.

What do you say?

hS

One last thing by Dark Brother 16 on 2014-06-13 16:24:00 UTC Reply

For the sample mission, does it have to be for a real fic, or can I just make one up. Because if I can make one up, I have a few ideas.

Write a mission. by Huinesoron on 2014-06-13 16:30:00 UTC Reply

A real mission. It's not just 'a sample mission'; if it's good enough to get Permission, it's your first mission. Use a real badfic. Given that you've claimed six of the blessed things, you shouldn't have any trouble finding one.

hS

Real Quick Question by Dark Brother 16 on 2014-06-14 02:08:00 UTC Reply

Is it in any way acceptable to create a character from a badfic for the sole purpose of assimilating them into the PPC? I have an idea for this goat from a Narnia badfic that I will probably wind up doing for my PerMission, but I want to be absolutely sure. I think I remember it being done before with Agent Fritz Sorgebrunnen and Silas during the Cupcakes mission, but I haven't read any of the variations of that badfic, except the one with better spelling and grammar than the original. I don't know if that character was in a different adaptation or made up, so is it allowed to make them up, if they are meant to join?

Gonna say no. by Neshomeh on 2014-06-14 03:45:00 UTC Reply

When sporking, you should not make things up that are not present in the badfic. Exaggerating and interpreting things that are in the badfic for the sake of humor, yes; making stuff up and claiming it's from the fic, no. That would be misrepresenting your subject material, which is bad. Plus, if you start feeling that you have to invent things to make the mission more interesting, it may not be a very good choice of target in the first place. Plus plus, hS wants you to focus on writing your two main agents for this. Creating more characters would not be the brightest move for you at this time. (And even if you weren't intending to write the goat-character yourself, I have a pet peeve about pointlessly recruiting characters and not doing anything with them, so I'd still try to discourage it. {; P )

By the way, how's the "reading missions that aren't about Emergencies or Legendary Badfic" thing going?

~Neshomeh

RE: by Dark Brother 16 on 2014-06-14 04:12:00 UTC Reply

I see.

It's not that I think I have to do it, I just want to push my limits. It's the best thing I can think of besides research and practice to improve. It's part of my upbringing.

It's going well. I've started on Hotel Nights by Trojanhorse and Soulshadow.

I have made a decision with Bad Slash and Slash in general. I find it revolting, and I believe that Hotel Nights will be the final Bad Slash mission that I read. I just don't have the stomach for it. (And this is coming from a guy who, among other things, watches documentaries on Pol Pot and Jack the Ripper, considers a dream with Freddy Krueger, Jason Voorhees, Chucky the Doll, Leatherface, Norman Bates, Jigsaw, Ghostface, Pennywise the Dancing Clown, and Slender to be a happy dream, and even purposefully tunes into national news to get angry at politics, just because I'm bored. I can take all these things, and not Bad Slash! Ha!)

However, I do find the exorcisms to be interesting. Since I have only read three whole missions, I haven't read any stories where the Sue Wraith gets especially violent yet. Pity.

Sweet by Dark Brother 16 on 2014-06-13 16:32:00 UTC Reply

I'll get started on the decision making right now.

Sounds like a plan by Dark Brother 16 on 2014-06-13 16:17:00 UTC Reply

Okay then. I'll be back in a month or so with this sample mission for just Ellis and Wells. :)

Taking of the Permission Giver hat for a moment by Phobos on 2014-06-12 22:27:00 UTC Reply

I want to be clear, I am not going to act as a permission giver for the remainder of this request, unless there is a split decision and we need a tie breaker.

I haven't really said much about your permission requests in the past, and there is a reason for that. I have some misgivings about your material, but it has always been too vague for me to put into words. I think it is becoming clearer, so let me ask some questions and try to explain my theory. Please, don't hold back in your reply, even if it means giving spoilers.

I note that there is a bit about a potential DIA Agent named Melvin Moore. I also recall that you talked, a long while ago, about a DIA Agent that seemed to have it in for your team. Are you still planning that storyline?

Why is it so important that Wells has super speed? This power has been a constant for the character, even through multiple re-writes of how she got it, so there must be some reason for the power to exist.

Plank is a villain, isn't he? The slow descent into madness. The "apparent" deaths and/or snapping of all of his previous partners. Drinking copious amounts of glitter. Forging documents to get assistants. The signs are all there.

What I am getting at is the shape of the story. You keep trying to be mysterious about it. It is kind of like you are throwing a blanket over a sofa. You can see the shape of the sofa (the plot points and important details) under the blanket (the few details you've given us). Here is where my concern comes in.

I don't think you have a sofa under that blanket. I think you're trying really hard to make it look like a sofa, when it is something else entirely. There are faint shapes under the blanket that worry me. You've got a character who you want me to think is one of your protagonists, but looks like a villain. You have powers that seem too important to you for how little attention you want to draw to them. You have characters who don't look to have any purpose except for a plot that people had issues with, and that you haven't brought up in your requests. It seems to me that you are hiding all the red flags under that blanket and hoping we don't notice.

You clearly have long, complicated stories planned. There is nothing inherently wrong with that; hS has written some of the longest, most complicated stories around, after all. What I have a problem with is if you are intentionally hiding story elements that you think we will have a problem with, just to get permission.

So, now comes your part. Prove to me that it's a sofa. No more mysteries. No more secrets. Just show me the shape of your story.

-Phobos

Oh, well, alright by Dark Brother 16 on 2014-06-12 23:06:00 UTC Reply

Okay. I was hoping to keep it on ice until I got a feel for writing missions and mastered my understanding of the PPC material, and all that, but sure, I'll explain what I have in mind.

Yes, I am still planning to give Melvin Moore a story line, but he has evolved since I suggested him. He dislikes my agents, but is more interested in preserving the PPC and stuff, as he stands now. And that's the thing. As you have done, Moore is under the impression that Agent Plank is insane and evil and stuff. He believes that he has lost his grip on his senses and that Bessie has not been properly reformed, and that Plank essentially created a time bomb. And I have several minor characters who agree with him. For example, the agent I mentioned in one of my writing prompts, Sanfield, from Intelligence. They are the vocal minority that believe that Plank is not just insane, but that he is dangerous.

I never intended Plank to be the villain, though. The idea was that he joined the DMS and accepted some very dangerous missions in his time. He made it out, at times very much scathed, but his partners didn't. Yet another factor contributing to his opinion on Mary Sues. He used to hate them, but then his scientific curiosity began to take hold. He wanted to make sure that he could find a way to keep Mary Sues from ever coming back. However, the more he looked into it, the more he became convinced that Mary Sues could very easily become workable characters, and he began to view them as diseased, or mentally disabled, or something of the same level of pitiable. He began trying to find a cure for Mary Sues that could be used to surgically add personality traits that could develop into characterization. Of course, he had to test his products, and he began to do so on himself. That's why he consumes glitter in such large quantities.

As for the powers I keep giving Wells, I have a subplot in mind for that. In the Temporal Anomaly or disruption- I think I said it was a Temporal Distortion- Wells saw a vision of people she was and would get close to dying and suffering in the most unpleasant ways imaginable. Because of these new powers, she tries to be there for everyone at once. Needless to say, she won't always succeed, but with her new powers, she will try.

What I am hiding is a little conspiracy to have Plank and Bessie removed from the PPC. There is going to be a small detachment of Mary Sues in valved, shipped in courtesy of the Venomous Tentacula. That is what I have in mind for my storyline, separate from the missions. Or intertwined with them, I'm still fine tuning it.

That is allowed, right?

A "small detachment of Mary Sues"? by Rats on 2014-06-13 02:36:00 UTC Reply

Shipping Mary Sues into HQ is a Really Big Deal, and thus far everyone has seemed opposed to Really Big Deals. I don't know how well that'll fly.

Another non-PG opinion by Pippa's Ghost on 2014-06-12 14:33:00 UTC Reply

You're still presenting a big, complex mass of many agents, backstories, and inter-relationships all at once, to overwhelm the PGs. Probably not a good idea.

(And, it also has the side effect of looking like all the really exciting, interesting events in their PPC careers have already happened in the backstories, so whatever happens in the main stories could be an anticlimax compared to that!)

I've said it before, but IMHO it might be better if you started with just Wells and Plank. Over the course of writing their missions and stories, you introduce the other characters gradually, and allow us to see Plank's steady decline into madness taking place before our own eyes. Seeing things happen over several stories would also help us understand some of the more puzzling things about the backstory, such as:

Exactly how did Wells get superhuman speed on a South Park mission? Did it come from the temporal distortion she fell into? (i.e. When she runs, time flows differently for her, or something like that?) Or was that a different mission?

How could Plank join at the same time as Makes-Things? Makes-Things was the very first human ever to join, and IIRC the next two were female LARPers who became assassins. Even if Plank was the fourth human to join and this is a case of "Remember the New Guy", as that TV Tropes page points out: "More than one Mary Sue is introduced this way in fanfiction." Not something that's going to be too popular here!

Talking of Plank, what is he officially supposed to be doing now? He's been "relieved of his Duty in the DMS" and is unofficially working for Experimentation and Research, but what do the Flowers think he's doing? And why isn't anyone from DIA keeping an eye on him after all the trouble he's been in?

Having said that, I still love the characters of Ellis, Bessie, and Wells, despite their very confusing backstories. I hope you do get permission to write them someday.
Not an Official opinion. by VixenMage on 2014-06-12 06:28:00 UTC Reply

(Sorry - though I've been reading fairly frequently, and have loosely followed* the permissions requests, classes and newspapering haven't left me much time to comment in the last several months, so I'd feel a little awkward jumping in with an Official Call.)

The first thing I'd say is, and I'm sure you're tired of hearing this, but... slow down. I also am sure you don't want to do this, but try to stop thinking about your 'verse and your agents for a little while and just be a part of the community. Seriously. If this is the point where one of the other PGs decides you've done it all and sundry and are granted... I'd still wait a while before you do a mission. Write with your agents, interact, read lots of goodfic. Read a lot of goodfic. Hey, just to keep the mind happy, right?

Anyway. I hate to say it, but to me, Wells' accent still comes off kinda awkward. Honestly, I'd scrap the whole "ya" for you thing and spend some time... h'm. Watching Firefly, I think, especially Jayne. Listen to the way characters like Wells - or like you want her to be - talk, and the way they phrase things, and spend some time writing like that. Oh! Granny Weatherwax, from Discworld, or Nanny Ogg - they'd be good sources, too. Dialogue is important, and hard - and characters' voices are important, and hard. I guess that's my biggest recommendation. Read a lot of the things you want to emulate.

With regards to your agent profiles... you don't seem to have addressed some of hS' critiques? You added a piece about unstable violence to Ellis, and a minor piece of lawyer context, but that's it on him. With Bessie, you changed more things, which is good! But... she's still a "powerhouse duelist" who is prone to foolhardy moves.

Wells - I'm confused about her. The relationship with Plank seems problematic - not in a "you shouldn't write this" way, in a "these characters are unhealthy and it could be interesting" way, but I think you definitely want to elaborate on that, rather than leave it ambiguous. Your last paragraph is a little confusing, for example. Is Plank actually insane? Does Wells know this? Does anyone acknowledge this, outside of Ellis' inner monologue?

Okay, you go a little more into Wells and Plank in Plank's bio, but it's still very disturbing between her bio and the 'fic sample, and I see that hS has flagged that as well. I'm also very, very, very sketchy about having him have joined at about the same time as Makes-Things. No, the PPC canon isn't sacred or anything, but... well... Makes-Things has been around basically forever. It would be kinda tough to write this character without doing quite a bit of background in the various PPC histories. Not that it couldn't be done, just that it would be up a couple levels of difficulty, basically.

All that said - have you run this through a beta? I don't see a credit here, and although I don't know what the deal is currently with Permission requests, it would probably be a good idea to work with someone on this, unless another PG has said otherwise.

*The other half of that is I honestly still don't know what the final call was on what does, and does not constitute a formal request.
error by zdimensia on 2014-06-11 17:40:00 UTC Reply

"maybe we can get permission to renovated"

That's the only error I noticed without really looking for them.

Laughter by Dark Brother 16 on 2014-06-11 17:51:00 UTC Reply

How embarrassing. Thanks for pointing it out.

Not a PG -- my comments by Tigeress on 2014-06-11 06:59:00 UTC Reply

Hey, three times the charm :3 I hope you get it this time.

Hm. You've fixed up the major problems pretty well... but (this might just be me) I think your explanations might be too broad now. What exactly happened in that South Park fic to make Wells so fast? (Honestly, I don't watch South Park... so if this is obvious, forgive me) Otherwise... I like them! :)