Well, there are two points of view on that.

Subject: Well, there are two points of view on that.
Author: Huinesoron
Posted on: 2014-06-06 09:02:00 UTC

On the one hand, there's the notion that being able to change the decay/distance rules for gravity does not imply being able to make arbitrary changes to the rest of physics. One is a tweak; the other is (or could be) wholesale alterations.

On the other hand, there's the compelling point that the authors probably wouldn't want to make that big a shift. Retcons only go so far, you know.

hS

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So I discovered an unspeakably cool thing. by Huinesoron on 2014-06-04 15:06:00 UTC Reply

The mountains of Titan are named after the mountains of Middle-earth.

Too stunned and gleeful to say anything else; you can take it from here. ;)

hS

Speaking of Middle Earth... by Dark Brother 16 on 2014-06-06 19:38:00 UTC Reply

So, hey, I've been wondering something.

I was re-reading the Original Series, and wondered where I can find the story that the mission Sisterhood is based off of. Does anyone think that they can help me?

Partially. by Huinesoron on 2014-06-06 19:55:00 UTC Reply

You may be interested in my TOS Badfic Archive, which is where we (me, the Irish Samurai, and Lily Winterwood) have collated all the fragments of the badfics in TOS which we could find. 'Sisterhood' (the TOS missions are named after their badfics) has two chapters, reconstructed from an MST. I don't know if any more ever existed.

hS

Thank you by Dark Brother 16 on 2014-06-06 20:20:00 UTC Reply

Okay, then. I'll give it a look. Thanks.

I told my mum, she brought this up... by KittyEden on 2014-06-06 12:41:00 UTC Reply

...which came first?

That is, were the mountains on Titan named AFTER the Middle-Earth mountains, or did Tolkein get the names for his mountains from the moon?

The former. by Huinesoron on 2014-06-06 12:57:00 UTC Reply

Those mountains have only been discovered recently - in fact, a fair number post-date 2012. Some of the names of Tolkien's mountains (Angmar, for one) go back to 1917, when Titan was just a dot in the telescope.

(Also, a bunch of them are named in Elvish; Tolkien didn't often turn real words directly into Elvish ones, but preferred translating them)

hS

Hm. by Dark Brother 16 on 2014-06-06 03:17:00 UTC Reply

Well, what do you know about that. That is crazy.
By the Hat, that's Awesome! by sjosten on 2014-06-05 16:02:00 UTC Reply

The fact that there is an actual Mount Doom in our universe fills me with joy!
*explodes at the awesome* (nm) by Cassie on 2014-06-05 10:11:00 UTC Reply
That's awesome by Sevenswans on 2014-06-05 01:06:00 UTC Reply

Let's see... I also see Xanadu (did Kubla Kahn... you get the idea.) Erebor (presumably the mountains are lonely) Merlock Mountain(Merlocks, really) and Angmar.

Dang, astronomers are nerds. ;)
Hey, I thought of a new ironic Sue punishment by LonelyStar on 2014-06-05 00:41:00 UTC Reply

Any Sue that claims a connection to any one of the the mountains in middle-earth can be teleported to the name-equivalent mountain on Titan.

Sans protective equipment.

Same thing works for Sues claiming connections with mt. Olympus, although in that case you'd need to use Mars.

Wow, that's evil. (nm) by eatpraylove on 2014-06-05 02:44:00 UTC Reply

*dances/paddles feet in excitement* (nm) by TwisTed_R3V3NG3 on 2014-06-04 21:03:00 UTC Reply
I-- Oh, glories, this is the most-- YES. *incoherent* by Ailavyn Siniyash on 2014-06-04 19:29:00 UTC Reply

Nesh, I shall join thee in thy pilgrimage, gladly.

-Aila

Yay! ^. ^ (nm) by Neshomeh on 2014-06-04 19:59:00 UTC Reply

Okay, so, when we're all rich... by Neshomeh on 2014-06-04 18:26:00 UTC Reply

Presumably from writing best-selling novels that get turned into the blockbuster movie trilogies and/or groundbreaking HBO series of the decade, causing the next great fanfic explosion...

It will be far enough in the future that we can charter a private space flight out to Titan and go lay Tolkien fanworks and memorabilia at the feet of the Taniquetil Montes and sing filks in praise to Tolkien and the Valar, which we will barely understand because of the static over the radios in our space suits, but we won't care because it will be the nerdiest, most epic pilgrimage ever.

Who's with me? {= D

~Neshomeh

So, I, er... I did a thing. by Huinesoron on 2014-06-05 15:38:00 UTC Reply

[Coughs]

Wait, I mean... what can this mysterious file be? Gasp! It must have fallen here from... [Drumroll] ... the future!

2057-2060 Titan PPC Gathering

hS is... well, you decide

I like it. by Neshomeh on 2014-06-06 16:06:00 UTC Reply

A lot. Like others, I actually started feeling a little emotional about it. ^_^;

Of course we would embark in September. *g* The third seems a little early, though. Does it take close to three weeks to get you from England up to the space station?

I wonder who the nine are, and the four ancientestbies. You, me, and Kaitlyn makes three (... okay, saying it that way was maybe not the best plan?), but Phobos isn't one, so who's the fourth? Or does Phobos get oldbie status by proxy?

Well, I wouldn't really want to spoil the mystery altogether, anyway. {= )

I do have to say, though, that I think having the Peter Jackson films on a loop the whole trip might drive me insane. If I'm doing the math right, I will be 72 in September 2057, which is definitely too old to be having with that nonsense. Therefore, I propose a list-making game:

Things Nine Elderly PPCers Can Do in a Spaceship for Six Years:

* Role-play the Fellowship of the Ring at least a dozen times (covered in the report).

* Play the PPC Card Game, 50th Anniversary Edition.

* Sing the entire PPC Holiday Songbook.

* Have marathon sing-alongs with the PPC Soundtrack, various PPC fanmixes, and the Official Soundtrack of the Original Series that Neshomeh finally got around to assembling in 2020. Ahhh, classical music. Not like that godawful noise kids are listening to today!

* Determine whether our various spots and wrinkles look like maps of the London Underground or anything else, or whether that's just gross; don't you know there's a cream for that now?

* Write Protecting the Plot Continuum: The Novel.

* Translate the Original Series into Quenya.

* Get the entire boat speaking Quenya.

* Create a flawless universal language and writing system inspired by Tolkien... then lose the whole thing when someone accidentally saves over it with a visual-mail of their (admittedly adorable) grandkids putting cereal up their noses.

... That's all I've got for now. What else? {= D

~Neshomeh

P.S. Slightly less impossible wild idea: The Shire, New Zealand Gathering, about ten years from now give or take?

Is it a game? [/AI] by Huinesoron on 2014-06-06 19:02:00 UTC Reply

It looks like the cruising speed on R101 (as a random sample airship) is about 60mph. To cover the 5000 miles from London to Spaceport America would only take four days flat-out; stopping off in New York (to moor to the Empire State, naturally) wouldn't add much distance. You're right, I clearly need to retake that picture.

I deliberately left all the names off, because it seems more fun that way. ;) Possibilities are Dann, Araeph, AW, Hellga or BiD (they both pop in occasionally), ehm... Elcalion and VixenMage, maybe? I forget when VM joined. Basically it's four so that it's not just hS-Kaitlyn-Nesh. (Kaitlyn says she's Gimli, by the way)

The films (and the TV series! I hear they're discussing reviving it for Series 6, but given the disaster that was 5, I'm not sure that's a good plan) would definitely have been put on silent after the first couple of runs. So they're just background colour. (Also: I'm emphatically assuming medical technology will have made us all sprightly pensioners, and that then the Gummint will steal our pensions and make us work until we're 110)

More Things Nine Elderly PPCers Can Do

* Finally film something - anything - from the PPC canon.

* Write a VR PPC computer game.

* Rewrite it to be a multiplayer, competitive VR PPC computer game.

* Write the definitive PPC semi-autobiography.

* Finally get all the references onto the Wiki!

* Build a 1:1 replica of Middle-earth (including Beleriand) in Minecraft 3.

* Create the 'Phantom Edit' of the Hobbit-LotR series - a book-friendly mashup of all ~~six~~ nine films. (The third trilogy, by the way, is Numenor)

* Attempt to synthesise Bleeprin (and have to evacuate part of the ship for a week!). [This is Kaitlyn's one]

* Spend months planning to redesign the ship to actually look like Vingilot.

* Translate the Silmarillion into Quenya.

* Reconstruct Westron.

hS

PS: Wrong name. You call it 'Suza, New-Za'. And that... almost sounds doable.
Yay! Only six more years to a new fanmix! by doctorlit on 2014-06-06 17:55:00 UTC Reply

Of course, if I would just get off my tail and making, I wouldn't have to wait . . .

*do the one I'm making by doctorlit on 2014-06-06 17:56:00 UTC Reply

Stupid phone.

hS...you are...wow. by DawnFire on 2014-06-06 11:52:00 UTC Reply

That was...that was incredible. At first I was just grinning, but then...it started feeling kind of real, actually. Well done.

No, sorry. Incredibly well done. Wow.

100/10 would recommend. And no, that's not a typo.

~DF

Thirded. Good glories, that was-- I don't even know-- (nm by Ailavyn Siniyash on 2014-06-06 15:51:00 UTC Reply
I second that. by KittyEden on 2014-06-06 12:54:00 UTC Reply

Because- well, just- WOW. I almost felt like I was there, tramping over Titan, singing, Far over the Misty Mountains cold, to dungeons deep, and caverns-
AHEM.
Anyway. I will certainly come/have come/will come in the future.
Speaking of which, when is the next Gathering scheduled?

We're looking at doing the Moon again in '67. by Huinesoron on 2014-06-06 13:01:00 UTC Reply

Oh, wait, you meant at this end of time? Well, we're doing a UK Gathering (probably London) on August 16th, which I'll be reposting about the end of the month. There were a couple of discussions at the time about doing a New York or Chicago Gathering, too.

Essentially, it depends where you are, where you can get to, and whether anyone plans one (which, obviously, can include you).

(And: yeah. By the end of writing it, I was starting to get nostalgic for all the things we did out on Titan. Which, er...)

hS

Yes, about that. by KittyEden on 2014-06-06 15:18:00 UTC Reply

I remember you were using some kind of map system to work out where the gathering was going to take place. Maybe we can all put our general locations on there, irregardless of if we're in the UK or not. That way, if one place has a lot of PPC people, there could be another one there as well.

So, a guestmap? by Huinesoron on 2014-06-06 16:06:00 UTC Reply

Seems like a good idea (and it's been a long time since I've had a handle on where everyone is). I'm trying to get one running, but don't have access to my emails - the last thing I want to do is post the one that disappeared all the time again! I'll make a thread when I've got something that works.

hS

Right. Guestmap for testing. by Huinesoron on 2014-06-06 18:21:00 UTC Reply

Get a Free Guestmap

I'll throw this up in its own post, but first, I want to know that the blessed thing works for people who aren't me.

One note: you need to add a message. Email and website are non-compulsory. I'll add that to the welcome message.

hS

Worked for me, too. (nm) by Ailavyn Siniyash on 2014-06-07 04:17:00 UTC Reply
Works for me by the Irish Samurai on 2014-06-06 20:25:00 UTC Reply

Although I think I was one of the few people that the last one worked for too.
Worked for me. (nm) by Neshomeh on 2014-06-06 18:48:00 UTC Reply

Eheh by Desdendelle on 2014-06-06 16:06:00 UTC Reply

That'd be nice, even though the chances of having a gathering here are next to nothing (there's just me and DawnFire here IIRC).

Yup, I'm here again. by DawnFire on 2014-06-06 16:28:00 UTC Reply

Normally, I'm in Canada, but...yay vacations! :D Very fun. (I feel like such a tourist right now, help).

~DF

Heck yes! by VixenMage on 2014-06-05 02:16:00 UTC Reply

Hey, let's go one step further, and actually settle Titan! I've been holding out for a Mars colony, but this is even cooler!
You have my sword. by Huinesoron on 2014-06-04 19:15:00 UTC Reply

Or, more usefully (and since fake!Sting wouldn't get through the metal detectors at Spaceport America), my rudimentary understanding of orbital dynamics from Kerbal Space Program, my working knowledge of Quenya and Sindarin, and my total geeky obsession with every aspect of Tolkien's legendarium that will be a light when all other lights go out.

(And we can plant two trees of actual gold and silver! And call our ship Vingilot! And I am far too excited about something this ridiculous)

hS

OMG yes to all of that. by Neshomeh on 2014-06-04 19:58:00 UTC Reply

Gold and silver are rather heavy, though. They'll have to be smallish trees, or mostly composed of something else and gilded on the outside. They ought to have one fruit each, though, I think.

Ooh, ooh, can we ceremonially chuck a One Ring replica at Doom Mons? How's the gravity on Titan? Would it float majestically through the air on its way and land in a gentle puff of dust?

~Neshomeh

You haven't seen the best bit yet. by Huinesoron on 2014-06-05 07:15:00 UTC Reply

Doom Mons - the largest mountain on Titan, rising a mile above the dark plains of Aztlan - is directly adjacent to Sotra Patera - a gigantic cryovolcano.

We can stand on Doom Mons and throw the One Ring into an ice volcano.

(Hilariously, the 'lava' from a cryovolcano includes the molten form of, uh, ice)

hS

This gets more and more mindblowingly awesome every second. by Ailavyn Siniyash on 2014-06-05 08:07:00 UTC Reply

Although-- how is molten ice even possible, anyways? Doesn't that just, you know, not work? 'Course, I could be just missing something completely. *waves around "innocent high school freshman who should really be asleep" flag*

-Aila

Same way as molten rock. by Huinesoron on 2014-06-05 08:51:00 UTC Reply

In an environment where the average temperature is -180C - barely higher than the temperature of liquid nitrogen, where methane is a liquid and makes up the oceans - common-or-garden water is 200 degrees above ambient; it will boil the seas, and melt the 'rocks' beneath your feet - which are just ice themselves.

The fact that it's doing all this at the temperature of a nice hot shower - or even a cold one - is irrelevant when you're two-thirds of the way to Absolute Zero.

hS

Now the real question is... by DemonFiren on 2014-06-05 20:35:00 UTC Reply

...what, precisely, would happen to Gollum if he fell in there?

I might send an e-mail to Randall Munroe.

He would have a nice warm bath. by Huinesoron on 2014-06-06 08:58:00 UTC Reply

And then he would realise that a) he was breathing an atmosphere of almost pure nitrogen, with a bunch of organics thrown in for good measure, and b) the cryovolcano's eruption is partly ammonia, which is corrosive. So he would scream because of the burning of his skin, lose all his oxygen, and suffocate. Although, since ammonia solution is less dense than water, he'd probably sink before he got a chance to breathe in the air. So he'd drown while his lungs burnt. Which is... better?

But at least he wouldn't be cold!

(As for the One Ring: gold isn't susceptible to corrosion by ammonia, so it would be fine. Unless you made it out of ice)

hS

Done some reasearch. by DemonFiren on 2014-06-04 20:55:00 UTC Reply

Titan's surface gravity is 0.14 g, which should be sufficient for majestic floating. It's a little less than the Moon's.

KSP rocket science is not going to get us there, though. We need someone with Orbiter experience.

Also, we can launch the trees up separately, then load them aboard once we've escaped Earth's gravity well. This may or may not make things easier.

Nonsense. by Huinesoron on 2014-06-05 06:27:00 UTC Reply

All we have to do is tweak reality's physics engine to match Kerbal's; then we're golden.

Also: flying on Titan. So at least we have a way to get around.

hS

Well, if we can tweak physics... by DemonFiren on 2014-06-05 10:19:00 UTC Reply

...that probably means we have System Shock's concept of a super-light drive.

Which also means that I'll only be a moment. I have to figure out how this thing works, change my appearance and eff off into the universe of my choosing. After creating it.

But that's just silly. ;) (nm) by Huinesoron on 2014-06-05 11:14:00 UTC Reply

Why? (nm) by DemonFiren on 2014-06-05 18:14:00 UTC Reply

Well, there are two points of view on that. by Huinesoron on 2014-06-06 09:02:00 UTC Reply

On the one hand, there's the notion that being able to change the decay/distance rules for gravity does not imply being able to make arbitrary changes to the rest of physics. One is a tweak; the other is (or could be) wholesale alterations.

On the other hand, there's the compelling point that the authors probably wouldn't want to make that big a shift. Retcons only go so far, you know.

hS

Well, the device used... by DemonFiren on 2014-06-06 10:27:00 UTC Reply

...is the Von Braun's FTL drive, which can modify reality itself in all aspects (you-can-impossibly-have-missed-that-spoiler for System Shock 2, someone certain uses that drive to modify reality to suit their specifications. It's the final level.)

As for the second point...hm. That one's a little meta, I suppose.

That's awesome! (nm) by Tigeress on 2014-06-04 16:31:00 UTC Reply
Hooray for nerds! by eatpraylove on 2014-06-04 15:10:00 UTC Reply

I'm confused, though. "Erebor" looks a little too close to "Mt. Doom"; are they close in canon or is the scale of the photo just weird?

I was unclear. by Huinesoron on 2014-06-04 15:58:00 UTC Reply

Criminally so, given the utter incredibility of what I'm actually talking about.

The actual mountains on Saturn's moon Titan are genuinely and officially named after the mountains of Middle-earth.

hS