Again?

Alas, Poor Marquis by Voyd on 2013-07-21 03:58:00 UTC Reply

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1r2Ir-NB29Fiydj584FlH1i9bl_tPBwdCwwa9bEbjc80/pub

A possible permission piece, introducing Yorick.

In case you've forgotten who Valon is...

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dAHItOdWvikOr1Jc9p-PZfAHTuEVJOWOHXSgfXJsMjc/pub

Please allow some clarification. by Voyd on 2013-07-25 01:14:00 UTC Reply

One: I do want permission, but that obviously isn't happening.

Second: I DO socialize with PPCers; I just use the IRC.

Three: First and foremost, I want feedback and concrit. For instance, is the Marquis de Sod in-character? What is everyone's opinion on Yorick and Valon?

I'd like to know how well I've done, because otherwise I'll assume I've done horribly.

As a PG and an IRC-dweller... by VixenMage on 2013-07-25 04:25:00 UTC Reply

Let me try to weigh in here.

The first point, which I would like to be absolutely clear on, is that permission requests need to be clear. You may want permission, but no, it is not going to happen unless you submit a request that follows the guidelines, and tell us that that's what you're doing. Posting something "just for feedback" is not going to get you a "Wow, you're awesome, do you want permission?" Posting something that has a writing sample, AND a profile of your agents, AND what you're looking to tackle, AND specifically saying "This is a permission request," that will get you a yes or a no.

Second, I know you socialize on the IRC, but it would help you greatly to also socialize on the 'Board if you're looking for permission. A lot of PGs just aren't on the IRC, for various reasons, and most people do a lot of hanging out on both. Both is good.

Third - I'm going to be harsh here. But you need to just deal with the fact that sometimes people don't respond to you. Sometimes people don't give you feedback. Sometimes people don't have anything to say about your story. Sometimes people aren't interested. It happens. Sometimes people are too busy to get around to it. It happens. I've seen you react like this on the IRC, too, and I have seen other people react badly when they don't get answers quickly. That's not behavior I would encourage. When you refuse to talk to anyone else on the 'Board, but get annoyed when others on the 'Board won't respond to you, you are sending the message that you think your topic is important, but theirs are not. That's rude. Don't do it.

This last bit is more of a minor concern, as PG - repeatedly putting up re-hashed versions of the same story, and asking for critique, is not something I'd recommend either. It is far, far preferable, to ask if you can get a solid, steady beta or two to look over your story and help you edit it. Beta-by-crowdsourcing is unprofessional and kind of annoying, and also will not help you in the long run, if you're just taking in edits, changing the story, and moving on without really thinking or having a conversation about what you need to improve on. It also has the problem of over-editing, and, as Phobos pointed out, making the line between "asking for feedback" and "this is a finished product" very, very blurry. It's far preferable that you ask for a beta, write your story, send it to them, take their advice and edit it while talking to them about those edits, and then post the finished product as a "Hey, I did this, what do you think?" or a "Hey, this is a writing sample, I'm requesting permission!"

I hope this was clear.

Again? by Phobos on 2013-07-21 20:31:00 UTC Reply

1) The last time you posted this story is still on the front page. And that time was called "revisited", so you've clearly posted about this story three times now.

2) Outside of plugs for this story, you haven't posted or commented on anything on the front page. Looking at the page before this, you posted quite a lot but, again, primarily plugs for your own writing (including the third instance of this story). You haven't commented on anything anyone else has brought up, that I can tell.

3) Is this a permission request? I honestly can't tell, and this isn't the first time you've been vague about this.

As a Permission Giver, this stuff really annoys me. It feels to me that you are not interested in the community, at all. You seem to just be looking for feedback on your stories and, if you don't get enough, posting over and over until you get it. If that is the case, it is not cool.

Also, this obsession with permission is getting really old. At least half of your posts are centered around it. To add to that, we can't even tell if you are requesting permission or not.

So how do we keep this from being a problem?

1) Be clear with what you are asking. Do you want feedback on the story? Are you in the market for a beta? Is this a permission request? Then tell us. It is the only way to get what you are looking for. We are not mind readers.

2) Post once and let what happens happen. You won't always get the level or type of feedback that you want. It happens to all of us. You have to learn to accept that. Being clear with what you want will help with that, but there are no guarantees.

3) Talk to other people about things they are interested in. There is nothing wrong with wanting to talk about what interests you, but if that is all you ever do then it turns people off. Join in a discussion that is in progress. Give feedback on someone else's story.

-Phobos