I think Skye and I may have gotten off on the wrong foot. For the first few episodes I was like, "Um, why are you here?" Her presence annoyed me until they started diving into her motivations and such. That side of me ended up . . . venting. Sorry.

Also, there is overlap between lousy professional writing and good solid stuff by amateurs. Pretty much any show that lasts long enough will eventually have a "what was they thinking?" moment.

And a lot of that runs into YMMV territory. ;-)

(Mentioning Star Trek is a great way to catch my attention.)

I might not have been around badfic as long as you, but if you think Star Trek is hospitable to Sues you're misunderstanding something. Also, please don't make broad generalizations about a gigantic universe like Star Trek and then not explain yourself.

Let's do some math:

Crackfic =/= Badfic

However, badly written crackfic is badfic.

Bad writing =/= Badfic

However, badfics always have bad writing.

Fanfic-y =/= Badfic-y

However, badfic is a subset of fanfic.


More specifically, Star Trek often does fanfic-y stories, crackfic, and occasionally has bad writing, but very rarely dips into badfic.

Take TNG's "Elementary, Dear Data". Having characters cosplay as other fictional characters in a crossover between the two is very much a fan fiction-y idea. It's not serious, hard sci-fi, but the episode is a lot of fun, and a fan fiction around a similar idea would not be a badfic unless there were other things wrong.

Crackfic is very subjective, but I think sometimes Star Trek does it well. DS9's "Fascination" involves all of the characters randomly falling in love with characters they would never be conceivably shipped with, but everyone realized the silliness. It was like self-aware characters being forced to act a badfic. I thought it was fun.

Star Trek has its bad writing days. Voyager's "Threshold" involves a failed warp experiment that inexplicably "superevolves" two characters into mutant lizard...things. It's stupid and seems to imply that the writers failed basic biology, but is it really something you'd find in a badfic? There aren't any Sues, and the episode is made slightly more bearable by how in character everyone is.

Yes, they have occasional badfic episodes. TNG's "The Naked Now" involves a virus that makes everyone act drunk. This leads to dubiously consensual sex (THAT LEADS TO PEOPLE SHIPPING THE PAIRING WHAT THE ACTUAL HELL), and an idiot kid taking over the ship and then saving it (he's definitely a Sue).

However, those badfic episodes are not common. Sorry if that got a bit pointed, but overall, Star Trek is full of interesting, well-developed, complex characters that I love quite dearly, and having badly developed, one-dimensional characters is really what makes a continuum welcoming to Sues.

... any story can be described in such a way as to sound like a badfic. There's the tale of the young man who ends up being the Chosen One for ill-defined reasons, is the only person capable of resisting the lure of the eeeevil magic object he carries, has a group of friends who put aside everything - despite being very important people - to help him, and who (in the film version) has huge eyes and falls over a lot - okay, I'm not very good at this, but you could definitely summarise the plot of Lord of the Rings to make it sound Suvian.

The key isn't the descriptions you can stick on it - it's the quality of the writing. I think Skye has enough character - and character development - and consequences for her actions (she's still wearing that bracelet, as far as I know) - to count as a decently-written character. She's not the best character in the show (hi, Fitz-Simmons!), but she's not a terrible Mary-Sue who ruins it all. At least, not for me.

The same can also be applied in reverse, of course. The reason many people in the PPC think Eragon is a Gary-Stu isn't because of his summary - he's basically just a farmboy who stumbled into something far larger than him, and is doing everything he can just to keep up with the demands made of him, even though he didn't exactly choose to be The Last Dragonrider or whatever - it's because it's really badly written.

And to close off, another example of a character who can definitely be described in a Sueish way: he's an alien, who (of course) spends all his time on Earth, saving the planet because he's Just That Nice. He's the last of his people, and of course angst about this occasionally - otherwise what use is a tragic backstory? - and, get this, he can't die. He just comes back every time, healthier than ever. He's accompanied by a bunch of people who literally drop everything in their lives to go with him, despite only knowing him a day or so - and he's got a magical time-and-space machine which can take him anywhere (or -when) he wants.

Bu-bu-ba-dum, bu-bu-ba-dum, ooo-eee-ooo...

hS

Inheritance cycle. Twilight. Fifty hades of gray. Eye of argon. Ok, they're books, but they might as well be badfics.

(In fact, Fifty shades of fail was actually a Twilight AU badfic with renamed characters)

However, if you were taking about good series suddenly turning bad... the ending of the Madoka Magica Rebellion movie. Just... no.

Complete mess on a characterization, canonical and writign level. And stopping here because not only of spoilers but I would also end up writing a long and not necessarily polite rant.

Another one. (For the ones who don't mind spoilers, my mission blog has my opinion in full form under the ramblings section)