Subject: Don't get too depressed.
Author:
Posted on: 2013-03-05 08:29:00 UTC
We've worked hard at getting PGs to be willing to say 'I don't know'. :P Actually VM has always been best at that.
If you're supplying more samples, why not post at least part of them here? That way when VM is stolen away by aliens from the planet Grozling, someone else can still make a decision.
hS, will read the original to determine level of agreement with VM's... er, non-decision
Well, after all this time of having fun, making a fool of myself at times, and mentally developing charge lists whenever I read fanfiction, I think it is time I ask for permission. After reading through the wiki page about six times, I believe I have all the required paperwork right here:
Agent Bios, department and links to the badfic that will be my first mission: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1POWHiBWoPvBN6etmqeyyZ-6sBvOKa8zH4fn_Mm3FCBY/edit?usp=sharing
Permission Piece: https://docs.google.com/document/d/190WxiVaZ5m3ONRzN3TQGff7KpUPeUWYl0Y87oH7Zqwk/edit?usp=sharing
Hopefully everything is in order, and any questions or concerns the community may have are ready to be addressed. Now I sit back wait, calmly and professionally, because permission is totally Serious Business.
...Oh, shiny thing!
Good to see that you got Permission
Thank you so much for betaing, I definitely could not have gotten it without your help. Which, since we are on that subject, I am currently re-working my agents introductions, so I am likely to shoot that over to you once I am done. That is, if you are willing.
Yeah, I'll take a look at your agent intro piece again, no problem. Just send it through whenever you want me to take a look at it.
I forgot what I promised to throw at you, so HAVE A GIANT BALL OF CONFETTI. -drops said giant confetti ball on you-
Yay~!
Ow... You know, Pinkie has used those things as weapons before right? 
Owww....
Thanks! I have been waiting for this day for a while now. I'm just so glad I finally have it!
Yay for Permission! Have some nice 'splosions to celebrate! Whether it's 'Sues dying a nicely violent death or just bog-standard rockets is up to you...
First off, apologies for the inexcusably long wait - I've been meaning to get back to you for a while, but life is sort of hectic at the moment.
You've been around the 'Board for a while, contributed to discussions, not been a flaming jerk, generally been a literate and friendly person - that's a check. The agents are plausible and interesting, and you responded positively to concrit - check and check. Your badfic's been deleted, so I can't quite check that one off - definitely make sure you clear the 'fic you decide on with someone before you go ahead with the mission.
Your sample is a bit of a dilemma - not necessarily because it's bad, but because it doesn't really show off a sense of humor. We've given people holds on Permission for overuse of Grimdark before, but this isn't that - it's just a very matter-of-fact piece, without a lot of character interaction or dialogue. I don't want to say no, because there's definitely nothing wrong with your piece, but I have trouble saying yes without seeing anything more dynamic than a myth. You said you'd started your first mission - would you mind e-mailing me what you've got so far? Even if it's not perfect, since you probably haven't beta'd it yet - I'd just like to go over it and see how you do humor and dialogue.
(Other PGs: does this sound alright? Am I overreacting, do you have comments/concerns/better ideas?)
The piece is pretty well written, with no obvious SPG mistakes, and fits very nicely into the genre it was written for. I particularly liked the million years/day use and subversion at various points.
But... it doesn't really demonstrate how World-Jumper writes outside that genre. For instance, the list of weapons: that's fine for mythology (and has ancient precedent), but would be extremely bad writing if done in a mission, or indeed most other contexts.
The other thing, which is sort of the same thing, is the brief glimpses of the gods-as-people we see. They're pretty darn flat - War is pure violent evil, to take the most developed example. Which... again, is fine and actually the best thing for pseudo-mythology, but in a mission...
As I see it, a Permission Piece is asked for so we can check three things:
-Can you spell & grammatise? Yes, you can.
-Can you describe things without being urple? While the description here is obviously tweaked to the genre, I think this is a yes too. Actually in some places it was too normal for the pseudomyth - 'an extremely muscular build' snagged my brain as something from a story, not a myth (which are more of the 'strong enough to break an ox' mould). But in general, yes.
-Can you write characters without them being Suvian? Well... I can't tell. Your bios don't scream 'Stu!' - although I note we have another 'shy friendly type', which I've never understood :P - and look as if you've set up at least two sources of humourous conflict (shy/sociable, and fanboy/pony). But there's no positive evidence either.
Additionally, there is a fourth 'bonus point', which can often sit in for some of the others:
-Can you write well? This is about flow, style and so forth. And again... I can't tell. I can tell you can write myth well, which is brilliant if you decide to add to the Myths of the PPC... but is that because you chose a subject that fits your only style, or because you tuned your style to fit your subject? I'm assuming the latter - but it's honestly impossible to tell.
In conclusion: I think that once you show either VM-by-email or us-by-Board a sample of character-centred writing, you'll get a very quick decision. I'm assuming it'll be a Yes - but I can't say for sure.
hS
Sorry for the wait, but I had to get the pieces, then I had to go to school, then...
Anyway, I decided to upload them to G-Docs again, it is part of the permission piece link. Yes it is labeled myth on the doc. Who cares. It is the meeting of the agents in HQ. While I did have part of the mission done somewhere, I cannot seem to find it. Oh well.
As for your points, I completely understand, and that is why I am not truly upset. I'm just a little disappointed, and honestly part of me is telling the rest of me "I told you so!" It is a funny feeling to rub the fact in my own face. I only write urple when the situation calls for it, such as the agents finding a powerful stu item. (I was going to use this in my first mission actually, which it turns out I might still be able to use. I'll tell you why later.) Otherwise, I prefer to describe actions and the important setting.
The reason for this is because I come from a storyteller's mindset, meaning my priorities when writing and others priorities may be different. That is why I do myths well, because I usually write what I would be willing to say if I were a storyteller of old, though I can write in other styles. The storyteller mindset does help cut down description without being bland though.
Anyway, do keep in mind this is not quite finished. It has gone though one round of editing, and might need more. This just shows, hopefully, that I can write for the PPC.
I can't wait to read your missions!
Silly Hermione, you can't steal anything from Pinkie. She'll just come over with her property through the plotholes and the breaking of the fourth wall. Don't worry though, she'll probably see it as 'On Loan,' and seeing as there is a party, she will probably show up any minu-
"Hey guys! Wow, this board is really cool! Though, I expected it to be made of wood, like a wooden board, though I guess this is a posting board, so perhaps it should be made out of Post Its! Hey, that sounds like fun! We should totally cover the board in Post Its and have a party at the same time! You keep the party cannon, I'll go get the Post Its and some MARACAS! Don't move a muscle, I'll be right back!"
Oh Pinkie, you so-
"Not a muscle!!"
...OK.
Thanks, I'll be sure to work out the issues in my introduction, and I'll work on my first mission. I don't know if I can do the one I selected, you know, because it's deleted, but I have a list of other fics I can choose from. I think I have one I could use as a replacement, but I'll give it a few more days before I crank out the mission. Hopefully I can have it finished by the end of spring break, but we will see.
Now, where on earth did Pinkie-
"I'm back! I brought the Post Its, the maracas, extra confetti, and even a DJ!"
Woah, Pinkie, you brought Vinyl Scratch to my permission celebration? I... I don't know what to say...
"Meh, don't mention it. I know you bronies like her, it was really no problem.
Now, do you ponies want to party, or do you ponies want to PAAARTEH!!"
*throws confetti on World-Jumper* Congrats! Welcome to the land of the people who got Permission, and to the special club of the people who got Permission today! (currently just you and me) Woohoo!
*dances around*
~DF
But I found out today, so it can still be today.
~DF
Thanks, I'm still so exited over this! I'm just so glad I can now write those things I have been thinking about doing for a while now. Who knows, some day, perhaps we can do a collaboration! We shall see.
I want one!
*cough* Anyway...
I know exactly how you feel! I was jumping up and down all yesterday, and I'm still quite happy today (although I seem to have used up the jumping). Now we get to see if I can actually write the mission part of missions...
And yes, let's hope so! I'm all for it. Actually, maybe I'll make a (short) list of people to co-write with...I think so far it's you and Silken Dawn? Something like that. And then, at some point, it can be brought up again, and it'll happen! :D
Congrats once more! And happy writing! Your missions are going to be great :)
~DawnFire
If you have no idea about who Doctor Whooves is, just look here:
http://www.knowyourmeme.com/memes/doctor-whooves-time-turner
That should give you the basic run-down.
We shall make this (semi)official then:
I, World-Jumper, do agree to write about fictional characters of his creation to be known as 'agents', finding and interacting with characters of DawnFire's creation also to be known as 'agents' for the purpose of fixing the errors and uncanon elements of poorly written fanfiction.
Signed 3-7-2013,
~World-Jumper
There. Once you sign your name to the document, the collaboration agreement will be complete.
Have you seen this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdhmFFKEuog&list=UUfP3R9vq0TlkXJTYoDP3NMw&index=3
Thanks for sharing :)
Dear me, how are they going to find each other? (Well, by assignment, most likely, but...)
Right. Semi-official it is, then!
I, DawnFire, do agree to write about fictional characters of her creation to be known as 'agents', finding and interacting with characters of World-Jumper's creation also to be known as 'agents' for the purpose of fixing the errors and uncanon elements of poorly written fanfiction.
Signed 3-7-2013,
~DawnFire
And there! We have an accord.
~DawnFire
Interestingly, they tie in to my two unanswered points:
-"He had hoped he could reason with the oversized daisy, but it refused to listen to logic. ‘Just goes to show you’, he thought as he walked in the general direction of Bad Slash, ‘you can’t reason with a Flower’. Marvin wandered HQ, not paying much attention to anything, even his destination. If he wandered across HQ, what did he care?"
That's two 'reason with's and two 'wandered [...] HQ' in the same paragraph. There's another 'wandering' a couple of paragraphs later, too. Obviously I'm not suggesting wild thesaurus abuse, but a little variety goes a long way.
--Actually, as a note to the above: wandering HQ without caring where he was going would probably have taken him straight to his RC. It's not necessarily wrong (and you do throw out a 'perhaps it was HQ's strange architecture'), but it raised at least part of an eyebrow.
-Printworthy seems a bit too accepting of... well, a fair few things. 'Oh, a human - I thought they were a myth. Cool'. Um, if I ran into a centaur or something, I'd be rather more flustered about it. Of course, this may be the sort of reaction you'd expect - I'unno the canon.
More key, I think, is that little conversation about plotholes:
"Sounds to me like you fell through a plothole. They appear when something that should not be able to happen does, without any explanation. You must have stumbled across one and came here.” [This is fine. Fairly standard blase PPC reaction. 'Oh, yeah, she's your evil doppleganger and you're a character in a story. Surely this is obvious?']
“A plot hole? That’s a storytelling mishap, they’re not real.” [This is... okay. That 'they're not real' feels a little too accepting to me. Printworthy appears to be assuming Marvin's made a silly mistake, rather than - more logically - that he's stark raving bonkers]
“Oh, don’t they? Plotholes, the Narrative Laws, and the Ironic Overpower all don’t exist?” [This line feels pretty stilted. Neither of the latter two had come up. I'd probably have something like "Oh, don't they? Seems to me like you just fell through a plothole because the Ironic Overpower decreed it, and landed on me of all people through the Laws of Narrative Comedy...", which slots back into the blase PPC approach, with a hint of irritation at not being believed, and still gets everything across. Obviously that's an Agent Dafydd line, not a Marvin line, but you get the point]
“Now hold on! You speak as if literary laws affect reality, and that ponies, or humans, are governed by them, like mere characters in a book!” [Which is actually a pretty good response - but I'm not sure it's a response to the previous line. :P Still, it's the sort of reaction I'd expect]
This overflows a little into the following section - one mention of badfic, and Printworthy instantly believes everything Marvin's saying.
But - and it's a big but - as you've said, this isn't a finished piece. Those two are the sort of thing I'd flag up if I were betaing your story (and would get extremely frustrated if you kept on doing the same thing story after story, just changing the specific examples I cited to my specific example alternatives... sorry, got distracted there, not talking about you. Remember, girls and boys, betas are there to help you improve, not to do your work for you). They're certainly something to watch out for, but if you do keep an eye on them (see what I did there, avoiding repeating 'watch out for'?), they're not a problem.
As a general commentary: your description is good, and (usually) not stilted, you have some genuinely funny moments (yes, Marvin, drop a Star Wars reference on the innocent horsey-thing...), and with a few exceptions your dialogue works nicely. So unless VixenMage or someone else comes by with a powerful argument against, I'm going to say Permission Granted. Here is your official nothing, keep it safe, we are not made of nothing.
hS writes too much
I understand the points you have, I spotted a few of them upon a later review, and am currently working to fix up the problems you pointed out. Still, seeing as it is an early draft, it is understandable why it has some problems. I will be sure to break out the old thesaurus to add a little variety.
The thing about Marvin passing the RC; he actually did pass it. Five times at least. Remember, he did not care about where he was going so much, he decided to continue walking, despite arriving at his supposed destination. Hmmm, perhaps I could mention that fact somehow... Actually, I should have at some point an interlude with Marvin's original partner from Bad Slash finding him and giving him a piece of her mind. I don't know anything about her beyond her gender at the moment, but at some point...
Yes, Printworthy is a little accepting of everything, but I think I will work it out so that he is either really, really freaking out, or that he had seen so much weirdness in his time, he's just come to accept a lot of things. I'm working on it, as I said.
He does not necessarily believe everything Marvin says once he says badfic is real, per-se, more he is intrigued with either how this new world works, or seeing how a human who has completely lost his marbles works. Eventually, when he meets his first Flower (which will probably never be seen, sadly) he will totally, completely believe. As I said before, and this time it will be the last, I am working on it.
Now that we are done with that... WOO HOO! Thank you for the permission, I will be sure to use it wisely. I won't let you down.
Good job, World-Jumper! You're an inspiration to us all!
*waves the hoof of her Fluttershy figurine*
All these newbies who I thought had left, now returning! How has it been? Enjoying the Fluttershy figure?
Oh, wow, an inspiration? I... I hardly think I'm THAT interesting. I just chat to people on the internet and view fan material. I'm hardly anybody special. But, if you say I am, then I guess I am. Who knows, perhaps some day I can actually produce some material that will have its own fan material. Then, if I do, and the PPC still exists in some form, I think I would have full rights to spork badfic from my own continuum. Then I would be an inspiration. Yeah, that sounds cool. Until then though, I'm just a guy on the internet.
A guy on the internet who has permission! WOOO!!
It's been alright, I've just been busy for a while. But, hey, we have to PPC some My Little Pony badfic sometime. It's third on my list after one I'm currently working on with KittyNoodles and whatever eye-searing Once Upon a Time fic DawnFire comes up with (I'm sure she'll find one that's hilariously awful).
I had reservations to using this piece for this exact reason. However, I was told multiple times that this piece would be acceptable. It makes me a little sad to see that I was assured by many people that all my piece had to show was that I could write well, when my initial suspicions seem to have been correct. Nothing against you, you're just doing what you think is right, I'm just telling you what I was told.
Give me an address to shoot over the e-mail, I'll give you the meeting of the agents and the mission I have so far. Keep in mind the two are very in-progress, and so may have errors, but should show my mission writing style. Plus, I have been writing a few other 'spin offs' with Marvin and Printworthy that may be 'funnier' if you want to see those. Whatever you want to see, I would be happy to give.
We've worked hard at getting PGs to be willing to say 'I don't know'. :P Actually VM has always been best at that.
If you're supplying more samples, why not post at least part of them here? That way when VM is stolen away by aliens from the planet Grozling, someone else can still make a decision.
hS, will read the original to determine level of agreement with VM's... er, non-decision
:P What? I like to be certain of things.
(Seriously though, thanks - I sorta moved across the country last weekend, spent most of yesterday in interstate transit, and am currently staying with a sister, sans regular internet access - your intervention in the matter is timely and hugely appreciated.)
Congratulations, World-Jumper! I look forward to reading your missions.
Hope you get settled well in your new home. Moving can be hard at times, so I hope this transition is as smooth as possible.
It will take a bit of time before you guys get to see a mission from me, but I'll try and get one out relatively soon. When it is out though, I can only hope I do well with it.
Haha I like! I'm a newbie too, by the way. Hope you get Permission!
I do too.
NEWBIES UNITE!
The backstories are pretty interesting, to say the least, but when I clicked onto the link to the badfic, there was no badfic to be found! The page said "Story does not exist." Did you maybe mistype the URL, or are our intrepid agents going to be dealing with a deletion in their first mission?
Come on! Those stories have been there for weeks, they were there the day before I asked for permission, AND NOW THEY ARE DELETED!? Gah!
While I do have the stories saved (thank goodness), if it turns out he deleted them because he saw that they were bad, I think I'll find a different badfic. Not that that would be hard per-se, but... It was really bad, in a simple way that was PERFECT for a first mission. The Stus were not so mind-numbingly bad that they would drive the agents insane, yet still clearly Stus, it had terrible grammar, dumb dialogue, and it had a Stu item for the agents to loot. I even started writing the mission! I guess we will see what happens but... *sigh* Why did the author have to wise up NOW of all times?
I did do a google search, though, and--well, it's not this, is it? http://www.fimfiction.net/story/16108/me-in-equestria I don't think so, since it doesn't look like it's got a sequel, but...
(Also: FIMfiction? Really? What's a 'fim'? I am confused, which I somehow managed to mistype as 'consued' *shifty eyes* No idea what's up with my typing skills...)
~DF
Tht's what fim stands for. As in, it's a My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic fanfiction site.
I'm readying the confetti cannon just in case!
...And if it's a no-go, confetti anyway because it makes everything better!
Um, thanks? I think...
Yay, confetti cannons are fun! Let's hope they are used for the first reason, and not the second!
Well, I'm most definitely not a PG, but I like it! Your writing sample was most absorbing, and full of interesting ideas (and did I catch a PTerry reference with Death's scythe?) I just want to point out two typos that I found:
In the agent bios, Marvin should get 'winded' rather than 'wended'. In the writing sample, there's this: Chaos continued pulling itself through the small hole in the wall of the world. Slowly, yet surly, it would reach though, the beings inside unable to stop its arrival, unable to stop the destruction of their home. 'Surly' should be 'surely'.
Other than that, it looks great! Well done! Hopefully we'll be seeing missions from you soon.
~DF
I'll fix them in just a moment. No, it was not a specific Discworld reference, as I wrote it before I even knew what Discworld was. Still, they are similar, and Irish Samurai pointed out the similarity as well. I'm glad you like the piece, and I hope I get the permission.
Ah, I see. Well, it was still fun to see :)
Best of luck!
~DF