I have SCIENCE!!!

Subject: I have SCIENCE!!!
Author: hermione of vulcan
Posted on: 2013-10-23 13:35:00 UTC

I'm not sure I'll be able to continue your chemistry analogy, but here's what I know:

There are three kinds of crossovers - the two you mentioned, and the type I call "Holodeck" - basically, one continuum is kept fictional and someone in the other continuum is a fan. Some continua play well in certain types and not in others. Some continua play very well with others.

There are three levels: Plays Well With Others, Plays With Friends, and Plays Best Alone.

Examples:

Plays Well With Others:

Star Trek

There are three reasons:

1. Random weird things in space that connect to other dimensions
2. Holodecks
3. Time Travel

The risk is that your continuum really wouldn't appeal to any characters, and the others can be overused. Star Trek doesn't play as well with magical continua, but I've found that if you explain something in a way that sounds vaguely scientific it fits with the universe. They literally managed to justify turning some characters into kids.

Of note is that Next Gen and Voyager play well with MLP:FiM, because DisQord.

Doctor Who

This is the most friendly continuum I have found, because it involves a device that can literally go anywhere in time and space. The risk, again, is that it can be overused.

Plays With Friends:

Harry Potter

Harry Potter plays well with other magical continua, especially others set in World One, like Percy Jackson. Unless the laws of that universe directly contradict the laws of Potter-verse, it can work. It's not particularly compatible with sci-fi due to the canonical "magic and tech don't mix" rule.

Sherlock

It plays well with other continua set in World One, and has enough outlandishness to let fantastical continua like Potter or Avengers meld with it. Better with sci-fi than Potter, but the sci-fi continuum has to be the one providing the means of transportation to the other continuum.

Plays Best Alone:

Lord of the Rings

It's not possible to share a setting, and there aren't really ways for characters to leave the universe. I used to think the elves were sailing to some vague nondescript place that could be another continuum *cough* Vulcan *cough*, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that their destination is actually specified. In order to get characters there, you need your other continuum to be a friendly one.

It's important to remember that "holodeck" type is very easy as long as:
-The other continuum would actually appeal to the characters of the other continuum. For example, a Star Trek/BBC Sherlock crossover of this type is plausible, while a Star Trek/Twilight crossover is not.
-It would be possible for that fiction to exist in universe. For example, Star Trek characters can play LOTR on the holodeck, but LOTR characters can't watch Star Trek.

That's all I've got. SCIENCE!!!

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Slaves to Armok: God of Blood by 99Hedgehog on 2013-10-21 00:41:00 UTC Reply

Hey people!

Might I ask, anyone else here play Dwarf Fortress?

The whole thing is goodfic. In fact, I dare you to find a DF related badfic.

I bet all my entire supply of bleepka. And I'm a circlediver.

I take it everyone here has read Boatmurdered? by Rin on 2013-10-22 19:33:00 UTC Reply

If not, go do so. Right now. Parts of it are NSFW, but it is the Dwarf Fortress Let's Play.
Well, you did say Dwarf Fortress related... by the Irish Samurai on 2013-10-21 12:29:00 UTC Reply

So I think I can offer up this Dwarf Fortress x My Little Pony crossover.

I can't comment on the DF canon details, having never played it, but the actual writing seems to suffer from a lot of SPaG and formatting issues.

Out of interest, how much Bleepka are we talking here?

... by 99Hedgehog on 2013-10-21 21:50:00 UTC Reply

...enough to fill a Dyson Sphere.

BUT, it's not that bad. Come on.
Re: Well, you did say Dwarf Fortress related... by Ekyl on 2013-10-21 13:52:00 UTC Reply

Is it pointless to wonder why EVERYTHING has to be ponified these days?

Yes, it is. by DemonFiren on 2013-10-21 14:49:00 UTC Reply

We are the bronies. We are the many. There is no escape.

(Well, like myself you could stop watching the show, but...)

I don't watch the show. by Ekyl on 2013-10-21 20:29:00 UTC Reply

It's just annoying to see ponies shoehorned into literally everything these days.

I wonder what it is about a continuum... by Calista on 2013-10-21 20:58:00 UTC Reply

that makes it easier to involve in crossovers?

Some are crossed over with other continua for a larger proportion of fics than others. MLP is a major example.

Do some worlds attach more naturally to other worlds than most? It's almost like chemistry--some elements are more reactive than others, and some crossovers are harder to untangle than others.

Crossover types--
Ionic--Characters from one universe visit another. If it's a good crossover, the host universe can assimilate the visiting characters. Example: The Doctor attempts to prevent the destruction of Alderaan.

Covalent--Two universes are written to exist in the same continuum. If it's a good crossover, they will merge seamlessly. Example: "ER" and "CSI" characters work together to track down an angel-of-mercy killing patients at the hospital.

There ought to be stable and unstable combinations, and of course there are complex crossovers with more than two continua, which may bond in different ways...

The DMSE&R needs to do Science on this!

No science needed, really. by Ekyl on 2013-10-21 21:03:00 UTC Reply

Like I put it, it's just how willing the fans are to shoehorn their thing into every other thing. Bronies seem to think everything everywhere needs to be ponies. :P

Awww, but... science! We must have SCIENCE!!! (nm) by Calista on 2013-10-22 01:54:00 UTC Reply

I have SCIENCE!!! by hermione of vulcan on 2013-10-23 13:35:00 UTC Reply

I'm not sure I'll be able to continue your chemistry analogy, but here's what I know:

There are three kinds of crossovers - the two you mentioned, and the type I call "Holodeck" - basically, one continuum is kept fictional and someone in the other continuum is a fan. Some continua play well in certain types and not in others. Some continua play very well with others.

There are three levels: Plays Well With Others, Plays With Friends, and Plays Best Alone.

Examples:

Plays Well With Others:

Star Trek

There are three reasons:

1. Random weird things in space that connect to other dimensions
2. Holodecks
3. Time Travel

The risk is that your continuum really wouldn't appeal to any characters, and the others can be overused. Star Trek doesn't play as well with magical continua, but I've found that if you explain something in a way that sounds vaguely scientific it fits with the universe. They literally managed to justify turning some characters into kids.

Of note is that Next Gen and Voyager play well with MLP:FiM, because DisQord.

Doctor Who

This is the most friendly continuum I have found, because it involves a device that can literally go anywhere in time and space. The risk, again, is that it can be overused.

Plays With Friends:

Harry Potter

Harry Potter plays well with other magical continua, especially others set in World One, like Percy Jackson. Unless the laws of that universe directly contradict the laws of Potter-verse, it can work. It's not particularly compatible with sci-fi due to the canonical "magic and tech don't mix" rule.

Sherlock

It plays well with other continua set in World One, and has enough outlandishness to let fantastical continua like Potter or Avengers meld with it. Better with sci-fi than Potter, but the sci-fi continuum has to be the one providing the means of transportation to the other continuum.

Plays Best Alone:

Lord of the Rings

It's not possible to share a setting, and there aren't really ways for characters to leave the universe. I used to think the elves were sailing to some vague nondescript place that could be another continuum *cough* Vulcan *cough*, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that their destination is actually specified. In order to get characters there, you need your other continuum to be a friendly one.

It's important to remember that "holodeck" type is very easy as long as:
-The other continuum would actually appeal to the characters of the other continuum. For example, a Star Trek/BBC Sherlock crossover of this type is plausible, while a Star Trek/Twilight crossover is not.
-It would be possible for that fiction to exist in universe. For example, Star Trek characters can play LOTR on the holodeck, but LOTR characters can't watch Star Trek.

That's all I've got. SCIENCE!!!

DisQord? by son_of_heaven176 on 2013-10-23 23:29:00 UTC Reply

Are there actually any good Voyager/MLP crossovers? There are exactly three on FFN, and at first glance, none of them look like something that you specifically would have read.

I was speaking theoretically. by hermione of vulcan on 2013-10-24 12:44:00 UTC Reply

I haven't actually read any fic.
Rule 1 about pony fic: Don't bother with FFN by World-Jumper on 2013-10-24 01:14:00 UTC Reply

IF you are going to find anything in this fandom, good or bad, you go to FIMfiction. While I should brave the Pit more often for ponies while looking for badfic, I know this site is where everybody posts their fanfics about ponies. Anyway, if you want to find Star Trek crossovers, I would start at this online group made for Star Trek crossovers. Mostly it is if the crew of the Enterprise were ponified, but there are others. Are the fics any good? Some of them are... less then favorable, but surly there are some good ones here! Personally, I have never looked for any Star Treck crossovers before now, but you feel free to see for yourself.

Hey, speaking of pony crossovers, you know what everybody here needs to read, like, right now? Binky Pie , a crossover with Discworld. While it is unfinished, this fic is one of the best crossovers I have ever read, and I have read several crossovers. Pinkie Pie becomes the new steed of Death after Binky retires to Equestria. Why Pinkie Pie? Well, read it and find out! (A big hint is in the title.)

MOAR SCIENCE!!! by ThePoketrix on 2013-10-23 23:12:00 UTC Reply

So continuing the chemistry analogy, the Plays Well With Anyone and Plays Well With Most Others types would be the most reactive elements, the Plays With Friends are less reactive, and the Plays Best Alone are Noble Gases?

Also, I think the Holodeck type is stretching it as a crossover...

It depends how far you take it. by hermione of vulcan on 2013-10-25 18:34:00 UTC Reply

Referencing another continuum isn't a crossover, but I think if the character's fandom is the focus of the story, to the point where you have to know both continua to understand the story, then it's a crossover or should be marked as such.

Personally, it's my favorite crossover method to write because it's fun to have characters being fans of things the way you're a fan of them.

So ponies would be... by Calista on 2013-10-23 17:37:00 UTC Reply

MLP is in the "Plays Well With Others" category or in the Plays with Friends category, depending on how you do it.

Crossover fics that involve simply turning all characters into MLP-style ponies are "Plays well with others"--because you can do that to almost any universe. Even Lord of the Rings is plausible.

But if you are keeping not just the species of MLP but also the universe, then it will only fit in some continua. Equestria would fit nicely as a lost island in the world of Narnia, for example. Or a planet in a sci-fi world that has just enough quasi-magical power to make it plausible.

There ought to be a category for "Plays with Anyone", though. Some worlds can literally accommodate anything, even the most isolated and specific worlds. It's a small category, but it exists, and it's mostly metafiction. The PPC verse is one such continuum. Thursday Next is even more extreme; it includes not just published stories but manuscripts that the authors have kept secret, and it once went into an instruction manual for household appliances. Anywhere that has extreme cross-reality travel qualifies.

As resident hardcore brony here: by World-Jumper on 2013-10-21 21:24:00 UTC Reply

Because it's fun.

OK, I think this needs a little more explanation. With ponies specifically, the nature of pony physiology makes things much more interesting to cross over. Specifically: technology without hands, pony colorization, pony species, and cutie marks. Imagine the world of Fallout, but with ponies. Well, that sounds strange, but it is interesting to think about because of these factors (less colorization for fic, but the other three stand). How are guns used without fingers to fire them? What would the cutie marks be for assorted characters? After all, cutie marks are a visual symbolism of what makes you special, of who you are. What advantages and disadvantages of each species lead to variety that humans just don't have in the other worlds? Unicorns have magic, and the ability to use things more or less like we do. Pegasi can fly and manipulate weather. Earth ponies are stronger and have a deeper connection to the earth. What would different characters be like if they were any of these races? All of these variables make ponification much more interesting as a concept then most other fandom conversions.

Well, that and some fans are just way too attached to multi-colored horses. Now, if you will excuse me, I have to get back to my Avatar: The Last Airbender ponification fic.

The rest of us can still find it obnoxious. :P by Ekyl on 2013-10-22 14:33:00 UTC Reply

And don't get me started on Fallout Equestria, re: your example.

Not as bad as it could be. by Calista on 2013-10-23 17:43:00 UTC Reply

If you find it annoying, that may be mostly because of its omnipresence. It is a rather sturdy continuum with good writing and well-rounded characters, and if it had stayed a show for kids instead of exploding into a much bigger fan base, no one would have any complaints about its quality.

There are much more annoying things that this could have happened to. What if MLP were a poorly-written, cliched world with flat characters and lots of plot holes? I think that would be a hundred times worse.

I'm not a particular fan, but I do enjoy the occasional episode if someone happens to link me to it, and I've read some fan fic. It may be obnoxious to some people because of how widespread a phenomenon it is and how everything's getting turned into ponies--but it could be a lot worse.

Speaking about pony fanfiction by son_of_heaven176 on 2013-10-23 23:34:00 UTC Reply

I do NOT consider myself a brony my any means, but I got exposed to the pony fandom via a YouTube show: Turnabout Storm, a Phoenix Wright/MLP crossover. Ekyl, I highly suggest that you take a look at it; you might actually like how well the Phoenix Wright elements are written.

Given the lack of a fixed canon... by Ekyl on 2013-10-21 04:51:00 UTC Reply

Seems to me our definition of a badfic is kind of impossible. DF is at its core a fantasy-world generator, which essentially means any "fics" written in that continuum are more like original fics in a setting created by the game. Unless we're talking fics of stories and Let's Plays like Boatmurdered.
I tried and failed. by SeaTurtle on 2013-10-21 03:49:00 UTC Reply

Often. The most Fun I've ever had is watching my dwarves starve to death.

Speaking of DF goodfic, have you ever heard of the legend of Fort Bronzemurder? Read it and bask in its radiant glory.